are spiritual masters involved in politics

[Nungali]

3 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Of what is the spiritual master, a master?

 

Spirituality .  

 

 

3 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Surely there is more to master than the persona (mask) of a human.

 

There is more to all of us than just that .

 

 

3 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

How to test for mastery of transpersonal energies?

 

 

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

23 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 But obviously these are extremes and rather a clear case .  In other issues , like the ones Stirling gave us .... are they really comparable to this ?  Seems a bit 'over reactive '  ? 

 

Those are absolutely comparable examples.  They are in fact the behaviors of the religious leader who wrote the book that was mentioned in the post by stirling.  Which is how it entered the thread.  And also the behaviors of the son of that leader who was named successor.

 

Edited Friday at 12:48 AM by BigSkyDiamond

[Nungali]

Just now, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

Those are absolutely comparable examples.  They are in fact the behaviors of the religious leader who wrote the book that was mentioned in the post by stirling.  And also the behaviors of the son of the leader who was named successor.

 

 

I meant the  the minor  things that Sterling seemed to be pointing out the ' small infractions of calm' .  

 

I must not have read / been following close enough  to get the   associations   you claim with the mention of that teacher . 

 

 

Hmmmm ... I hope one of those  Sai Baba  situations doesn't arise here  ......   time to depart and go out  scouting for firewood  ... 

 

 

[Lairg]

If we do not know how to test for spiritual mastery are we reduced to guesswork?

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

52 minutes ago, Lairg said:

If we do not know how to test for spiritual mastery are we reduced to guesswork?

 

 

No it is not guesswork.

We can recognize what it is NOT.

 

Edited Friday at 01:40 AM by BigSkyDiamond

[Dainin]

Spoiler

 

Edited Friday at 03:22 PM by stirling
The hidden image is shocking and depicts a man being burnt alive. Be sure you want to see it before revealing it. - Admin

[Lairg]

I had a girl friend who remembered being burned as a witch.  She said it was a very cold experience - as may be detected in the above photo

 

 

She also said (from experience) that drowning is the easiest death - one panic breath of water then all is peaceful.  She was annoyed at being rescued from the bottom of the pool

 

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 01:49 AM by Lairg

[Lairg]

3 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

3 hours ago, Lairg said:

If we do not know how to test for spiritual mastery are we reduced to guesswork?

 

No it is not guesswork.

We can recognize what it is NOT.

 

 

Binary worlds are wonderful

 

 

[Paradoxal]

18 hours ago, stirling said:

Any teacher that acts in a questionable manner would call it out immediately and correct themselves, or submit to correction at whatever level necessary. Again - it doesn't mean that they aren't enlightened necessarily. It takes many years after "awakening" to drop the most pernicious aspects of "self". Some things never go away. Some will never be teachers, and it isn't important that they ever are.

I would disagree with you here; if texts are to be believed (which is in itself debatable), an 'enlightened master' should be one above the limitations of the flesh, no? 

Now, it is truly the road to mastery to have the strength to call yourself out, to submit yourself to correction, and to be willing to change, but I would argue that they must still be at the journeyman phase if they fall prey to such things. It doesn't mean they can't teach people, but 'mastery' should be taken quite seriously in my opinion...

Again, perhaps I am still just too young, dumb, and inexperienced! 😉

 

 

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

I'm sorry ... my eyes could be faulty ..... did you just say you are willing to torture certain people  ?  

I said I wouldn't be morally troubled by it, but yes, I do think that there are points in which the morally 'right' thing to do is to cause suffering. After all, if someone has killed or tortured thousands, how can *only* killing them resolve that karma? Should the war hawks in their 70s and 80s die a peaceful death? 

This probably isn't the right thread for a thorough conversation on moral qualms and philosophy though, so... 😅

Edited Friday at 11:40 AM by Paradoxal
Removing potentially political joke

[old3bob]

"

"I said I wouldn't be morally troubled by it, but yes, I do think that there are points in which the morally 'right' thing to do is to cause suffering..." Paradoxal

 

  The "Right" thing to do is not to swallow such dark crap!!  

Edited Friday at 01:57 PM by old3bob

[stirling]

4 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

I would disagree with you here; if texts are to be believed (which is in itself debatable), an 'enlightened master' should be one above the limitations of the flesh, no? 

Now, it is truly the road to mastery to have the strength to call yourself out, to submit yourself to correction, and to be willing to change, but I would argue that they must still be at the journeyman phase if they fall prey to such things. It doesn't mean they can't teach people, but 'mastery' should be taken quite seriously in my opinion...

Again, perhaps I am still just too young, dumb, and inexperienced! 😉

 

In Buddhism at least there are two classes of enlightenment: That which you might encounter in a living being, and that of those that have extinguished the karma of birth and death (those that are "dead").

 

Quote

There are two stages in nirvana, one in life, and one final nirvana upon death; the former is imprecise and general, the latter is precise and specific. The nirvana-in-life marks the life of a monk who has attained complete release from desire and suffering but still has a body, name and life. The nirvana-after-death, also called nirvana-without-substrate, is the complete cessation of everything, including consciousness and rebirth. This main distinction is between the extinguishing of the fires during life, and the final "blowing out" at the moment of death.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)#Nirvana_with_and_without_remainder_of_fuel

[Master Logray]

15 hours ago, Lairg said:

If we do not know how to test for spiritual mastery are we reduced to guesswork?

 

 

 

Not guesswork, but belief.   Belief doesn't need evidence.  

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Dainin said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

One supposes it was a political protest ?  

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Lairg said:

I had a girl friend who remembered being burned as a witch.  She said it was a very cold experience - as may be detected in the above photo

 

 

She also said (from experience) that drowning is the easiest death - one panic breath of water then all is peaceful.  She was annoyed at being rescued from the bottom of the pool

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you sure it was   the past life she was saying was a 'very cold experience'    and not the relationship  ?  

 

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

I would disagree with you here; if texts are to be believed (which is in itself debatable), an 'enlightened master' should be one above the limitations of the flesh, no? 

Now, it is truly the road to mastery to have the strength to call yourself out, to submit yourself to correction, and to be willing to change, but I would argue that they must still be at the journeyman phase if they fall prey to such things. It doesn't mean they can't teach people, but 'mastery' should be taken quite seriously in my opinion...

Again, perhaps I am still just too young, dumb, and inexperienced! 😉

 

 

I said I wouldn't be morally troubled by it, but yes, I do think that there are points in which the morally 'right' thing to do is to cause suffering. After all, if someone has killed or tortured thousands, how can *only* killing them resolve that karma? Should the war hawks in their 70s and 80s die a peaceful death? 

This probably isn't the right thread for a thorough conversation on moral qualms and philosophy though, so... 😅

 

 

 if someone tortured thousands  are you gonna get the 'one ' responsible   and torture him to death, resurrect him and do that thousands of times ? 

 

Who the F  are you ?  Some modern Christian fundamentalist Jehovah ?  

 

D u u u u u d e !  

 

 

.

Edited Friday at 11:50 PM by Nungali

[Lairg]

8 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Not guesswork, but belief.   Belief doesn't need evidence.  

 

True believers are highly prized

 

[Nungali]

On 6/27/2025 at 10:48 AM, Lairg said:

If we do not know how to test for spiritual mastery are we reduced to guesswork?

 

 

 

There are tests  but they are different for different traditions .   If one doesn't know what they are and does 'choose'  I don't think it would be based on guess work but probably subtle conditioning   and  hopes and ideals . So here is a danger of moving towards something we are unconsciously attracted to .... perhaps in a good way or perhaps in an adverse way . 

 

Will a 'master' support or challenge  my 'inner convictions'   might be a question the unconscious poses . The unconscious ego might reject a teacher that it feels threatened  by and thinks the teacher might  expose it .  Or a glimmer of 'pre-enlightment ' or super-conscious might lead you to the teacher  that is just what you need to evolve at  the present  time ... although outwardly  seeming not to be suitable . 

 

I am assuming 'testing for mastery' is about finding a teacher ... otherwise why do it ? 

 

The thing is, I feel , if you are 'on the path' and have 'some work behind you ' (  through this or past incarnations ) it will all 'unfold' for you .   The 'right ' teacher should appear ... either to help you or 'teach you harsh lessons '  .

 

of the second type I would say ;  there is no need to learn all the harsh lessons and lessons of failure  yourself ... a lot of that can be done by observing others  . 

[Nungali]

On 6/28/2025 at 2:25 AM, Master Logray said:

 

Not guesswork, but belief.   Belief doesn't need evidence.  

 

'Belief' is fraught with the dangers I outlined above .

[Lairg]

36 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I am assuming 'testing for mastery' is about finding a teacher ... otherwise why do it ? 

 

I quite often meet various entities while meditating.  If they want to connect,  I first test for smell, and then intent.  Then I might push them up through the planes to see where they can operate.  Then I might put them in a light-dark spectrum to see where they are most comfortable

 

If they pass the tests, by then I will have some sense of their quality and purpose and I will consider closer interaction

 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:33 PM by Lairg

[Nungali]

Well, you are a bit clearly now ... I was supposing you were talking about identifying spiritual masters ... not random 'entity encounters' in meditation . 

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 6/27/2025 at 5:35 PM, Lairg said:

True believers are highly prized

 

in what way?

[Lairg]

6 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

in what way?

 

They provide money, power and prestige to whoever/whatever they believe in

 

 

[Nungali]

28 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

They provide money, power and prestige to whoever/whatever they believe in

 

 

 

 

    I'll let God know .