Do people truly have free will?

[stirling]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

You are working overtime here to appear an absolute idiot  !  

 

And to do that continually and deliberately to annoy people or cause disruption  is trolling the site .

 

And you have already said  you are doing this deliberately and being deliberately stupid .

 

Easy there, friend. Let's take deep breath.

[Nungali]

6 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

Easy there, friend. Let's take deep breath.

 

Innnnnnn  ..... hold ........ and ouuuuut . 

 

Now ..... did I say an untruth or anything he didn't  declare himself first . 

 

If you are happy to let that go on here , then its your choice what this site turns out like , if so I shall ignore him and watch Daobums further degrade , if that is what you want . 

 

so its up to you now 

Edited 19 hours ago by Nungali

[Lairg]

What are requirements for free will?

 

- control of physical desires

- control of emotional desires

- control of thoughts

- control of heart energies

- .....

 

By age of 7 the child traditionally was held responsible for what it did.  

 

A couple of generations ago, by age of 21 the new adult was held responsible for its thoughts and allowed to vote.

 

As I recall Jung believed that by 42 it was possible to be ready for a mission in life

 

It seems that freedom of will takes much work

 

 

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Lairg

[stirling]

28 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Innnnnnn  ..... hold ........ and ouuuuut . 

 

Now ..... did I say an untruth or anything he didn't  declare himself first . 

 

If you are happy to let that go on here , then its your choice what this site turns out like , if so I shall ignore him and watch Daobums further degrade , if that is what you want . 

 

so its up to you now 

 

It isn't possible for me to read every post here... you just got lucky.

 

 I'd rather we ALL kept it civil and left out the insults. If someone is insulting you, please let me know. 

[Sanity Check]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Well well ... run your flag up your pole and salute it  !  While you concentrate on being a citizen of the  Great America   that is OBVIOUSLY  MORAL   and  NEVER committed an atrocity   anywhere ... especially in its own country and against its own people  ! 

 

Never committed an atrocity against the   slaves and their descendants they took there , let alone the original inhabitants  . Never nuclear tested over the pristine Pacific  dislocating happy peaceful people ..... never sold weapons of mass death and maiming all over the world .... on an on it goes 

 

Meanwhile you do an idiot Homer Simpson dance with your fingers in your ears 

 

Its rather sickening ... no wonder Old Bob feels the way he does ! 

 

You are working overtime here to appear an absolute idiot  !  

 

And to do that continually and deliberately to annoy people or cause disruption  is trolling the site .

 

And you have already said  you are doing this deliberately and being deliberately stupid .

 

 

 

Do muslims want to live in a country founded upon islam ideology that observes sharia banking laws.

 

Or do they want to live in the united states a country founded on christian ideology and principles.

 

Do atheists want to live in norway, denmark or a nation founded on atheist ideology.

 

Or do they want to live in the USA, founded on christianity.

 

Forget about america's economy and military.

 

A case could be made for the USA being the fairest and most moral nation on earth.

 

Everyone wanting to live here, says so.

 

Tell me, kind sir. What is "stupid" or "trolling" about that.

[Paradoxal]

On 5/22/2025 at 9:19 AM, Sanity Check said:

Most of its history being that of a moral nation, it has achieved longevity and long life.

...wait, enslavement, rape, and genocide are moral to you? 

Literally even now, the prison system is using folks for forced labor, y'know.

 

And let's not forget eugenics originated in America, that we continue to suppress the native Americans whose land we stole, and that our "peacekeeping" is effectively imperialism.

 

I suppose we each have our "free will" as to what is morally right and wrong...

[Sanity Check]

9 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

...wait, enslavement, rape, and genocide are moral to you? 

Literally even now, the prison system is using folks for forced labor, y'know.

 

And let's not forget eugenics originated in America, that we continue to suppress the native Americans whose land we stole, and that our "peacekeeping" is effectively imperialism.

 

I suppose we each have our "free will" as to what is morally right and wrong...

 

 

Did you know that.

 

Every nation on earth practiced slavery during some eras of history?

 

How can you single out a nation for practicing slavery when all of them did.

 

Your perspective is critically flawed from day 1.

 

 

 

 

[Master Logray]

1 hour ago, Sanity Check said:

Every nation on earth practiced slavery during some eras of history?

 

 

 

Many nations are new ones.  So it is quite a philosophical question whether new nations should be responsible for Karma of their previous location or to all wider states that ruled it.   e.g. Croatia, should it be responsible for slavery in Yugoslavia, Ottoman, Hungary and Roman Empire?    Should current day Japan and Germany be responsible for genocides when almost every living Japanese and Germans are born after 1945?  

 

If a new nation and a new human is bound by something that happens before the birth, so what is free will stands here?   People and nation are born with so much burdens, guilt, hostility....   They are not free from the start, not to mention free will.

 

 

[Sanity Check]

13 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

 

Many nations are new ones.  So it is quite a philosophical question whether new nations should be responsible for Karma of their previous location or to all wider states that ruled it.   e.g. Croatia, should it be responsible for slavery in Yugoslavia, Ottoman, Hungary and Roman Empire?    Should current day Japan and Germany be responsible for genocides when almost every living Japanese and Germans are born after 1945?  

 

If a new nation and a new human is bound by something that happens before the birth, so what is free will stands here?   People and nation are born with so much burdens, guilt, hostility....   They are not free from the start, not to mention free will.

 

 

 

 

 

When narrators say "Genghis Khan was a ruthless warlord".

 

They forget leaders of Genghis Khan's era were ALL ruthless warlords.

 

There were no peaceful pacificsts in that world who survived for very long.

 

Its pointless to look at status quo, historical consensus trends as if they were unique and individualized smoking guns.

Edited 10 hours ago by Sanity Check

[Master Logray]

4 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

When narrators say "Genghis Khan was a ruthless warlord".

 

They forget leaders of Genghis Khan's era were ALL ruthless warlords.

 

There were no peaceful pacificsts in that world who survived for very long.

 

Its pointless to look at status quo, historical consensus trends as if they were unique and individualized smoking guns.

 

He was bad because they customarily massacred the whole cities.  Ruthless warlords were normally not so ruthless.

 

[Paradoxal]

7 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

Every nation on earth practiced slavery during some eras of history?

 

How can you single out a nation for practicing slavery when all of them did.

And yet, American slavery was worse than most others, due to it treating slaves as livestock. 

 

I'm glad that you recognize my other points as true, though! 🤣🤣

[Sherman Krebbs]

15 hours ago, Nungali said:

Kurt Vonnegut  ( you will know him, of course ) studied story lines in depth  and  realized there were some main popular stories that have similar story line plots 

 

Hilarious.  I love Kaufka's chart, who incidentally used to be one of my favorite authors, although I can't read German and dislike the idea of being violently stabbed in the back by some overzealous, clandestined debt collectors.  My favorite short story of his is Before the Law, here.  Might have some connection to free will.  Like, quit thinking philosophically about everting and just walk through the f...ing door. 

 

15 hours ago, Nungali said:

yes, that's a good one !  However what if they had an elder brother who was good at sports and the family pressured one to do likewise . OR other even unseen or unconscious forces were at play 'driving' you to certain choices  ( which is why in psychology such forces are called 'drives' ). 

 

Things  might be a LOT more complicated than they seem on the surface

 

What arbitrator of good and bad choices is there other than pain avoided or pleasure obtained.  I eat the count chocula because of the ungodly pleasure it brings me, though I balance that with the condition of my teeth and its effects on my metabolism.  Usually the scales tip towards the later, and I just eat some ground up cardboard. If free will is anything, thats it.  Its the pain of not eating count chocula.  BUT (and this is where I get crazy), I believe there is a deeper balance to be obtained which has nothing to do with pain or pleasure, although count chocula still plays a major part in it.  

 

16 hours ago, Nungali said:

Oh, and where does God get his authority ?  Another God higher up   ?    

 

"GOD" is an acronym which stands for "GOD Over Djinn"