Demonology. Why focus on the negative?

[Apotheose]

2 hours ago, Ascetic said:

Generally a good thing. There are times that it frightens me, but that fear factor is almost like a scary movie. There's a thrill to it.

Otherwise, that feeling of invigoration or gained intelligence. The Ego likes to flex and I find when I allow it to, its just rewarding.

Progress always has that feeling though or maybe I'm not progressing haha. But still compared to all the boxes and strain of importance, it just feels so much easier to say everything is a Demon and try my best. That may not be a good thing.

I would technically say I'm not going down the psychic rabbit hole anymore, more of a purity route.

 

That’s very interesting.

 

It reminds me of the year 2006, where I was obsessed with demonology and also obsessed with the christian concept of “trial”.

 

I remember that, the more I thought that the bad things which were happening to me were inevitable “spiritual trials” or actual demons, the more the situation would get worse — meaning: the harder the “trials” would get and the toughest the demons would turn out to be.

 

After some years of reflecting upon what really happened, I came to the conclusion that I fell prey not to demons or spiritual trials, but to my own habits of thinking. As the mirror principle states: as it is within so is without, and outer events are just a reflection of one’s inner conversation. So, I suppose my life turned into nothing but fighting demons and enduring spiritual trials exactly because my mystical beliefs were almost entirely based on fighting demons and enduring spiritual trials (how ironic!).

 

And that seems to be somewhat related to what you said regarding accountability (as in “it just feels so much easier to say everything is a Demon and try my best. That may not be a good thing”).

 

However, despite my harsh criticism towards demonology (which is notable in my last comments), I don’t claim to be right. I was just expressing my point of view, but I might be wrong about everything I said and everything I say in general.

 

In general, I do think we overestimate our problems to the point of wrongly thinking they are due to purely external factors (like “god send spiritual trials” or demons, for no reason) — when they would be, actually, partially just effects of our own choices. But there might be exceptions… I definitely don’t know all there is out there.

[old3bob]

 

Nungali,  I know little to nothing about that Alice Springs station. (its of course secretive)  Could also have some black ops that only a few are ever informed about besides saying its an intelligence gathering base?   US citizens are not informed by the "powers that be" about what only a few know of that is going on in our own country behind closed doors and which we are largely paying  for as taxpayers!  I'm not into conspiracy theories  but things are going on that are not shared with the general public as to what in the  hell is going on along the lines of government secrets or cover ups.

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Lairg said:

Quite right.

 

It is never too early to make a judgement

 

 

 

 

and of course that doesn't make sense either . 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

not exactly in shock after about 9 years of maga (along with years of Reagan and Bush jr.) and now a dangerous pathological you know who is far worse ,  btw. way back before potus was first elected the hand writing about him was clearly showing on the walls yet, "how many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn't see, the answer my friend is blowing in the wind..." 

 

I hope your country doesn't go into the deep end as much as ours! 

 

 

Thanks.  There have been attempts - let's emulate US  ( meaning the current 'trends' there  politically )  , trying to ride off the back of what is happening 'over there' . of course I cant talk about that here , all I can say is check our last recent election results  .....  their face got rubbed in it !  

 

[Nungali]

14 hours ago, Apotheose said:

...

 

In general, I do think we overestimate our problems to the point of wrongly thinking they are due to purely external factors (like “god send spiritual trials” or demons, for no reason) — when they would be, actually, partially just effects of our own choices. But there might be exceptions… I definitely don’t know all there is out there.

 

 

!  

 

Indeed  and sometimes not even our ' choices '  ; our  unconscious drives and prejudices . 

 

From 'The Raven's Tale '  -  The Raven witnesses  Apollo, after hearing his lover Coronis  was with another ,  fire an arrow into her breast and kill her . Then Apollo   "  ...   went into a rage, an anger , a blaming , he blamed everything from the arrow , the bow , the arm that drew the string ... everything but his own jealous nature ." 

 

Which is why I see a vast amount of indications that much in demonology is internal . I have been caned here by traditionalists  ( in the past )  for that view , asserting  a certain external reality to much of this phenomena .  However  there are another two  dynamics ; 

one is that it seems sometimes the energy can be externalized   ( which is different  from it originating externally ),   the other is  that the 'world soul' or ' anima mundi '  as the traditionalists viewed it ,  possibly also has an externalization of its 'unresolved forces' .

 

This  externalization  of  energy is postulated as a third 'reality '   ; material , 'spiritual '   ( or real and ideal )  reality with the third being termed  ' daimonic reality '

 

https://www.essentiafoundation.org/seeing-things-the-daimonic-nature-of-reality/reading/

 

https://www.harpur.org/x1Daimonic.htm

 

and an excellent companion book ; 

 

https://www.harpur.org/x1Philosophers.html

 

"   Since incarnation itself was held to be a falling away from wholeness - the Primary Imagination, out of which we are born and to which we return - the deepest forms of human knowledge and creativity could not be more than partial recoveries of this original state. Hence Plato's anamnesis, or 'recollection' - the activity of the Secondary, or human, Imagination: 'a power of working at a barrier of darkness, recovering verities which we somehow know of, but have in our egoistic fantasy life forgotten'.
    Harpur's powerful chronicle of this eclipsed tradition of otherworldly beings - angels, devils, gods, the Irish sidhe, the whole prolific realm once known as 'faery' - helps us remember a way of inhabiting the world that is more ambiguous and shape-shifting than the dull secularism which has come to prevail these last three centuries. His 'daimonic' reality - close to Jung's 'psychic' and Hillman's 'imaginal' - invokes a world that is inner as much as outer, where the imagination may not come from us so much as contain us"

[Apotheose]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

!  

 

Indeed  and sometimes not even our ' choices '  ; our  unconscious drives and prejudices . 

 

From 'The Raven's Tale '  -  The Raven witnesses  Apollo, after hearing his lover Coronis  was with another ,  fire an arrow into her breast and kill her . Then Apollo   "  ...   went into a rage, an anger , a blaming , he blamed everything from the arrow , the bow , the arm that drew the string ... everything but his own jealous nature ." 

 

Which is why I see a vast amount of indications that much in demonology is internal . I have been caned here by traditionalists  ( in the past )  for that view , asserting  a certain external reality to much of this phenomena .  However  there are another two  dynamics ; 

one is that it seems sometimes the energy can be externalized   ( which is different  from it originating externally ),   the other is  that the 'world soul' or ' anima mundi '  as the traditionalists viewed it ,  possibly also has an externalization of its 'unresolved forces' .

 

This  externalization  of  energy is postulated as a third 'reality '   ; material , 'spiritual '   ( or real and ideal )  reality with the third being termed  ' daimonic reality '

 

https://www.essentiafoundation.org/seeing-things-the-daimonic-nature-of-reality/reading/

 

https://www.harpur.org/x1Daimonic.htm

 

and an excellent companion book ; 

 

https://www.harpur.org/x1Philosophers.html

 

"   Since incarnation itself was held to be a falling away from wholeness - the Primary Imagination, out of which we are born and to which we return - the deepest forms of human knowledge and creativity could not be more than partial recoveries of this original state. Hence Plato's anamnesis, or 'recollection' - the activity of the Secondary, or human, Imagination: 'a power of working at a barrier of darkness, recovering verities which we somehow know of, but have in our egoistic fantasy life forgotten'.
    Harpur's powerful chronicle of this eclipsed tradition of otherworldly beings - angels, devils, gods, the Irish sidhe, the whole prolific realm once known as 'faery' - helps us remember a way of inhabiting the world that is more ambiguous and shape-shifting than the dull secularism which has come to prevail these last three centuries. His 'daimonic' reality - close to Jung's 'psychic' and Hillman's 'imaginal' - invokes a world that is inner as much as outer, where the imagination may not come from us so much as contain us"

 

Agreed, Nungali.

 

I also think that much of demonology is internal and that there is an external factor to it which, paradoxically, isn’t originated from the outside, but, as you brilliantly said, is a externalization of energy.

 

As one of your links states, Plato was very keen on Theurgy — which, at that time, was practiced with the purpose of “accessing” the Divinity through its intermediaries. It wasn’t a DIRECT mystical approach like some “protestant/alchemical/hermetic-based” esoteric systems and circles. Rather, it was done through intermediary “beings”.

 

A great example of this (which is pretty modern) is Martinez de Pasqually’s theurgic system, based on a highly complex hierarchy of Spirits. My personal opinion is that each and every one of those Spirits and Daimons are exactly an externalization of a vibrational state which is consciously OR unconsciously (!) attainable from within (and not originated from outside). That also explains much of Jung’s approaches on “Archetypes”.

 

The Daimonic Reality is very real, in my opinion, and it’s like radio stations. If one tunes into a certain frequency, all he will hear is the correspondent noise of that same frequency. And, by “tuning into a certain Daimon”, one starts operating in that same exact vibrational state of consciousness.

[Nungali]

 I cant seem to get rid of this  'text background demon now , hang on .....

[Nungali]

.... to dispel a demon ;  turn it off and turn it on again ....  anyway 

 

The 'Hierarchy of Beings'  concept is what was the essential dynamic behind the 'possessed' people that recovered  in DR Van Dusen's  research  ( in the link I previously gave ) .  He was surprised to find dynamics in the patient  as described by that theory according to Swedenbourg  ( who himself seems to have been troubled by the phenomena  but found his own way through . 

 

I also saw a  fascinating documentary where a disturbed young homeless woman managed to navigate herself out of it  via the same method .... using her dog  companion .  Well,  if it works   .... 

[Neirong]

On 15.05.2025 at 9:50 PM, Apotheose said:

A good way to summarize all this would be: If you want to illuminate a dark room so that things become visible to you, do you remove its darkness or do you turn on the lights? And, in this same context, is the light “correct” and its absence “incorrect”? Of course not… it’s just how the Law operates. There is no judgment of value in any of this.

 

The idea may seem logical and reasonable to you, but that’s the trap. The more sensible something appears to the human mind, the more dangerous the underlying error can be. The world is far more complex than a kindergarten sandbox.
 

We exist in a multidimensional reality, not a simplistic simulation of a mind.
 

First, you cannot banish darkness or reveal hidden truths simply by flooding a space with light, no matter how intense. Even if the light blinds you, it won’t expose everything. Demons, otherworldly creatures, and countless other entities do not reflect light, rendering them invisible. Light may pass through them without any interaction.
 

A room may be brilliantly lit, yet they remain unseen.
 

Second, many entities can merge with or impersonate other beings, including you. As we speak, you could be replaced or manipulated without even realizing it. In fact, your belief that "fighting demons is futile, so let’s light up the darkness with bulbs" might stem from demonic influence on your psyche.

I will say more, there are a lot of beings that would love to feast on "light", "positivity" and any other positive emotions just as you think they feed on negative. Infact, idea that demons feed primarily on negative emotions is wrong.
 

Throughout history, even revered holy men and high-ranking Christian priests have been possessed by demons, leading to significant deviations in their behavior. Recall the medieval era: a time marked by bloodshed, brutal torture devices, and the burning of so-called "witches" at the stake.

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Neirong said:

We exist in a multidimensional reality, not a simplistic simulation of a mind.

 

Indeed.

 

I can often glimpse inner plane beings - confirmed in real time by some skilled friends.

 

But when I imagine an image of Kwan Yin over my head, I then see a much greater range of beings that do not seem to interact with Earth humanity.

 

How much more is there to see?   Are there aspects of this universe that do not intersect with the inner planes on which humans exist?

 

According to some accounts there are folds in this universe in which galaxies may be concealed - undiscovered by those that do not know the entrances

 

 

All too hard?  Easier to move on.

Edited Wednesday at 02:25 AM by Lairg

[old3bob]

 

evil laughs mockingly at mankind's intellectual reasoning and speculations while gleefully going about with its horrors. Goodness can see it but it can not see goodness.

 

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, Neirong said:

 

The idea may seem logical and reasonable to you, but that’s the trap. The more sensible something appears to the human mind, the more dangerous the underlying error can be. The world is far more complex than a kindergarten sandbox.
 

We exist in a multidimensional reality, not a simplistic simulation of a mind.
 

First, you cannot banish darkness or reveal hidden truths simply by flooding a space with light, no matter how intense. Even if the light blinds you, it won’t expose everything. Demons, otherworldly creatures, and countless other entities do not reflect light, rendering them invisible. Light may pass through them without any interaction.
 

A room may be brilliantly lit, yet they remain unseen.
 

Second, many entities can merge with or impersonate other beings, including you. As we speak, you could be replaced or manipulated without even realizing it. In fact, your belief that "fighting demons is futile, so let’s light up the darkness with bulbs" might stem from demonic influence on your psyche.

I will say more, there are a lot of beings that would love to feast on "light", "positivity" and any other positive emotions just as you think they feed on negative. Infact, idea that demons feed primarily on negative emotions is wrong.
 

Throughout history, even revered holy men and high-ranking Christian priests have been possessed by demons, leading to significant deviations in their behavior. Recall the medieval era: a time marked by bloodshed, brutal torture devices, and the burning of so-called "witches" at the stake.

 

 

Oh dear .   Seriously    ?   I am sure you can get your opinion across without being   such  a    ......  literalist  ! 

 

What is the difference between a literalist and a thief  ?  

 

A  comma .  

 

 

-  A literalist takes things literally   while  a thief takes things, literally .  

[Apotheose]

On 20/05/2025 at 7:49 PM, Neirong said:

 

The idea may seem logical and reasonable to you, but that’s the trap. The more sensible something appears to the human mind, the more dangerous the underlying error can be. The world is far more complex than a kindergarten sandbox.
 

We exist in a multidimensional reality, not a simplistic simulation of a mind.
 

First, you cannot banish darkness or reveal hidden truths simply by flooding a space with light, no matter how intense. Even if the light blinds you, it won’t expose everything. Demons, otherworldly creatures, and countless other entities do not reflect light, rendering them invisible. Light may pass through them without any interaction.
 

A room may be brilliantly lit, yet they remain unseen.
 

Second, many entities can merge with or impersonate other beings, including you. As we speak, you could be replaced or manipulated without even realizing it. In fact, your belief that "fighting demons is futile, so let’s light up the darkness with bulbs" might stem from demonic influence on your psyche.

I will say more, there are a lot of beings that would love to feast on "light", "positivity" and any other positive emotions just as you think they feed on negative. Infact, idea that demons feed primarily on negative emotions is wrong.
 

Throughout history, even revered holy men and high-ranking Christian priests have been possessed by demons, leading to significant deviations in their behavior. Recall the medieval era: a time marked by bloodshed, brutal torture devices, and the burning of so-called "witches" at the stake.

 

Dear Neirong,

 

I totally understand your point, and I absolutely disagree with everything you said. And I say this with no resentment. Disagreements are actually excellent resources to fight the ego! Seeing that you have an utterly different perception of reality than me does humble myself — that’s because I learn that I could be wrong. Actually, neither do any of us completely know if we are right, and that’s honestly fun. So I’m really grateful for your insights.

 

Just to point out a few things. I don’t mean “Light” in a literal way — I suppose you understood it and just played along with similar allegories. Also, I wouldn’t underestimate the Church’s wickedness — it’s easy to externalize problems and blame demons for them when we can’t fully accept people’s will.

 

Finally, regarding the “Light” thing, I disagree with your statements to the point of thinking that they contradict very basic esoteric postulates:

 

(i) “The more sensible something appears to the human mind, the more dangerous the underlying error can be.”. [this is a bold and dangerous generalization]
 

(ii) “First, you cannot (…) reveal hidden truths simply by flooding a space with light, no matter how intense. Even if the light blinds you, it won’t expose everything. Demons, otherworldly creatures, and countless other entities do not reflect light, rendering them invisible”. [This is just not right from an esoteric standpoint. If you follow a certain religion and really believe this, that’s great. You might be right and I might be wrong, who knows? But, this does sound completely off to me].

 

Again, my friend, I respect your opinion and I’m thankful for all the information you provided me. All that I know is I know nothing (~Socrates)!!

Edited yesterday at 05:42 AM by Apotheose

[Lairg]

Just as humans like to eat a wide variety of species, so there are inner plane species that like to live off the life force in humans

 

If the latter are demons, then perhaps humans are demons also

 

Perhaps a more delicate classification would assist

 

 

[Apotheose]

On 20/05/2025 at 9:22 PM, Lairg said:

But when I imagine an image of Kwan Yin over my head, I then see a much greater range of beings that do not seem to interact with Earth humanity.

 

How much more is there to see?   Are there aspects of this universe that do not intersect with the inner planes on which humans exist?

 

That’s interesting.

[old3bob]

 

for great examples of evil just look at the US white house and GOP cesspool of inhumanity,  the scene and stench is disgusting!   (not all of them just way tooo many)

 

Edited yesterday at 03:25 PM by old3bob

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, Lairg said:

Just as humans like to eat a wide variety of species, so there are inner plane species that like to live off the life force in humans

 

It should be symbiotic . 

 

 

Quote

 

If the latter are demons, then perhaps humans are demons also

 

Perhaps a more delicate classification would assist

 

 

 

Now, through a wrong analogy you make a wrong  postulation and then suggest it might be  an invalid  definition ? 

 

It already does  and it already did . And it has already been explained.   It has been western ignorance through modern times and the  religious interference  with the original  word meaning and  concept that caused the modern 'undelicate' classification .

 

If you have not already  -  put it through an etymological analysis  and track the history and meaning of terms .

 

besides on many levels humans are a collective  - nothing wrong with things living off us, they do it all the time, actually its essential ! The problem is, as usual, when things get out of balance .  It was also of prime importance for our earliest evolution  ... we are virtually a conglomeration   of organisms  .... even  non organic AI agrees  ' 

 

"  

AI Overview

Learn more

 

Yes, the statement "the human organism is a collective of various organisms" is true. The human body harbors a vast and diverse population of microorganisms, primarily bacteria, but also including fungi, archaea, viruses, and protozoa. This diverse microbial community, collectively known as the human microbiome, is integral to human health and function... The microbiome is a separate level of organization, existing within the human body as a collective of microorganisms. " 

 

The human 'psychological self'   developed and exists in the same way  but operates under the  mode of 'one self' . 

 

.

Edited 20 hours ago by Nungali