God interacting with humans.

[Cadcam]

Suppose, as many do, that God and the devil are real. These beings and their kin interact with humans to guide and mold identity and actions. Do you suppose they would rather that one was aware of this interaction, or oblivious to it?

[Nungali]

 If I was going to suppose  'beings and their kin interacted with humans to guide and mold  identity  and actions'  I would not suppose those beings where  'God and the devil ' .... even if they were ' real ' .  

 

The devil    ?     ......

 

 

[Cadcam]

I like the story as told from the perspective of the jews, but I think it breeds superstition.  Second guessing ones own thoughts, words and deeds...but really, it fits together nicely. God is good, and the devil tests us to see if we are worthy of grace or punishment. When you compare them to Muslims, they're really quite liberal, and in the form of Christianity, rather lenient and forgiving. 

[Cadcam]

Nungali do you consider yourself to be an atheist?

[Nungali]

On 4/9/2025 at 7:57 AM, Cadcam said:

I like the story as told from the perspective of the jews, but I think it breeds superstition.  Second guessing ones own thoughts, words and deeds...but really, it fits together nicely. God is good, and the devil tests us to see if we are worthy of grace or punishment. When you compare them to Muslims, they're really quite liberal, and in the form of Christianity, rather lenient and forgiving. 

 

But why is this Old Testament  /  Jewish God   'good'   ?

 

I could list his directions to commit atrocities  and his temper tantrums, rages , etc .     all very 'human like'  ... but I am sure you know what I mean . 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Cadcam said:

Nungali do you consider yourself to be an atheist?

 

No . Not at all .  

 

But what I criticize .... I hope  .... should be obvious !  

 

But maybe not .... especially when I read statements like  ;   "  When you compare them to Muslims, they're really quite liberal, and in the form of Christianity, rather lenient and forgiving. "  

 

WTF ? 

[Cadcam]

You're on another page

[Neirong]

On 08.04.2025 at 9:09 PM, Cadcam said:

Do you suppose they would rather that one was aware of this interaction, or oblivious to it?

 

Meaningful interactions are only possible between beings on the same level of existence.

The natural limitations of the human mind would prove to be a barrier to comprehending things beyond.
 

There is a book, often recommended to beginners, called Jonathan Livingston Seagull, which effectively illustrates how the division between different levels of existence functions.

[Lairg]

3 hours ago, Neirong said:

Meaningful interactions are only possible between beings on the same level of existence.

 

So people that talk to plants and pets are wasting their time?

 

There was a small dog next door.  The woman said it could understand speech.  So I looked straight at the dog and just said a verb then a noun.  Immediately dog did what I said with the object I named.

 

A woman came visit me and said she was thinking of getting her hair cut.  I pointed out a nearby tree and said:  Ask the tree if you should get your hair cut.

 

A few seconds later she  was all shitty with the tree because it thought she should not.   So 6 months later the hair is still uncut.

 

The reason for not cutting is that hair has more functions than covering body parts.  The tree knew but she did not.  It was easier to let the tree tell her.

 

Perhaps the Oneness penetrates all beings and substances.  If so human can interact with other intelligences through the Oneness - far beyond what society teaches.

Edited April 15 by Lairg

[silent thunder]

6 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

So people that talk to plants and pets are wasting their time?

 

There was a small dog next door.  The woman said it could understand speech.  So I looked straight at the dog and just said a verb then a noun.  Immediately dog did what I said with the object I named.

 

A woman came visit me and said she was thinking of getting her hair cut.  I pointed out a nearby tree and said:  Ask the tree if you should get your hair cut.

 

A few seconds later she  was all shitty with the tree because it thought she should not.   So 6 months later the hair is still uncut.

 

The reason for not cutting is that hair has more functions than covering body parts.  The tree knew but she did not.  It was easier to let the tree tell her.

 

Perhaps the Oneness penetrates all beings and substances.  If so human can interact with other intelligences through the Oneness - far beyond what society teaches.

Are you assuming you are at an elevated station above plants and mammals?

[Lairg]

9 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Are you assuming you are at an elevated station above plants and mammals?

 

Long ago I was taught:  Assume means make an ass of you and me.

 

It seems better to test assumptions by experiment.

 

 

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, Cadcam said:

You're on another page

 

I hope so .

[silent thunder]

On 4/15/2025 at 2:01 PM, Lairg said:

 

Long ago I was taught:  Assume means make an ass of you and me.

 

It seems better to test assumptions by experiment.

 

 

So you more profoundly assume that your personal experience equates to knowing beyond doubting that your senses' interpretation of the transduction process of individual perceptual apparatus input is the be all and end all of truth and objectivity and not an aproximation based on social, familial and personal conditioning and thus prone to profound bias and skew?

 

[Lairg]

11 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

So you more profoundly assume

 

What is hard to understand about:

 

On 4/16/2025 at 7:01 AM, Lairg said:

 

It seems better to test assumptions by experiment.

 

There are many metaphysical experiments that can be done with observers to check results

 

How else would Daoists operate?

 

 

[Tommy]

On 4/8/2025 at 2:09 PM, Cadcam said:

Suppose, as many do, that God and the devil are real. These beings and their kin interact with humans to guide and mold identity and actions. Do you suppose they would rather that one was aware of this interaction, or oblivious to it?

Different beings with different abilities would act with their understanding. For example, comparing humans with birds. A human would get into a car and travel to the supermarket to buy food. A bird has no knowledge of this and would not understand the actions of humans. So, a God or devil act with their knowledge and abilities that may be beyond the understanding of humans. For instance, a god may be able to see the momentum of events that produce certain outcomes while humans may not be able to see this. So, the God acts in ways that do not make sense to the human. So, would one rather be aware of this interaction or oblivious to it? Some may want to know and others may not want to know. It would depend upon the individual and their ability to understand such actions.

 

Personally, I see it as if it were possible to travel in time. If one goes to the past to prevent patient zero from spreading a deadly disease then time would correct itself. Say the time traveler stops patient zero. Then, there would be no need for the time traveler to go to the past. But, time would correct this by making a different patient zero. Thus making the time traveler necessary. Or the grandfather paradox. A person goes back in time to kill his grandfather so then he can not be born. If a person travels to the past then time would prevent him from finding his grandfather. Time would always find a way to fix things. It is something that humans would not be able to see or understanding without the ability to see such things. (Note: Only the present exist and the past is only a memory. And the future hasn't happened yet.)

 

So, is God and the devil real? It does not matter. Events would always correct itself to prove or dis-prove the idea according to that which is needed at the time. So, does Joan of Arc prove that God exist? Depends on what was needed at the time and by whom? It is a thing beyond my understanding. Story of Moses?? Is it real and does it prove supreme beings exist?? IDK.

Edited April 17 by Tommy

[Lairg]

 

I have had a couple of physical experiences of parallel timelines. 

 

It seems that parallel processing exists in Nature.   Presumably that allows more robust processes when unfolding the purpose of a cluster of universes.

 

"Parallel processing is a computing method where multiple tasks are executed simultaneously to increase speed and efficiency. It involves breaking a large problem into smaller subproblems that can be processed at the same time on different processors or cores."

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17 by Lairg

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 4/8/2025 at 2:57 PM, Cadcam said:

I like the story as told from the perspective of the jews, but I think it breeds superstition.  Second guessing ones own thoughts, words and deeds...but really, it fits together nicely. God is good, and the devil tests us to see if we are worthy of grace or punishment. When you compare them to Muslims, they're really quite liberal, and in the form of Christianity, rather lenient and forgiving. 

 

There is no Devil in Judaism.  Judaism does not view “Satan” with the same connotation as other religions.

 

The shaytan in Judaism is that which is within each person that perhaps tempts or advises us to  transgress. The yetzer tov ("good inclination") is like our conscience which recognizes and steers us in a direction of spiritual growth.  While the yetzer hara ("evil inclination") pulls us away from that.  The shaytan or yetzer hara  describes an inherent aspect of human nature that is within us all.  It is not a separate entity opposing God.

 

the shaytan is actually seen as working for God, as being an agent of God to draw us closer to God so.  So we can make the decision to "do the right thing" when perhaps tempted otherwise.  Say for instance you are being considered for a position working at a business.  Can you be trusted to act in ethical ways?  The owner of the business wants to perhaps test you to find out.  So they set up a situation where you could steal money (oh let's say $25,000)  without anyone finding out.  You encounter that temptation.  It is a way to test character development and build and strengthen our own character development based on how we respond to whatever situation we face.  

 

In Judaism the Torah is read as a map describing our inner world, our psychology, our internal make up, the challenges and difficulties we grapple with, our character traits, those we seek to enhance, those we seek to eradicate.  When reading the Torah (Jewish Bible)  through that lens, all the events described in it, all the heros and villains and battles and events and circumstances, are not "out there in the world" are not "out there in history".  Rather they are all parts of ourself.  it is a map for character development and yes drawing closer to God.  Which yes is also within us, the divinity that resides in each of us.  (Divine Spark, some call it soul or spirit)

 

 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/satan

Edited June 10 by BigSkyDiamond

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 4/14/2025 at 2:31 PM, Nungali said:

 

But why is this Old Testament  /  Jewish God   'good'   ?

I could list his directions to commit atrocities  and his temper tantrums, rages , etc .     all very 'human like'  ... but I am sure you know what I mean . 

 

There is no "Old Testament" in Judaism.  That is a Christian appellation.

In Judaism there is Torah which includes the Jewish Bible and a whole lot more (see below)

 

So what is described in post above reveals and reflects the proclivities, inclination and mindset of the writer.

 

it reminds me of when i lived in an area for an extended period of time that had a large indigenous population that included many different varieties of culture and ethnicity and history and background.  There were 23 recognized groups each with its own distinct language, laws, governance, religion, culture, and environment. Some of the words used were very telling.  If someone of a certain nation looked down on those of another nation, there were derogatory words used to describe not just that person but slurs against the whole nation or tribe. 

 

It occurs to me that the post above is doing that.

 

-----------

 

"The word “Torah,” in its narrow sense, refers to the Five Books of Moses. In a broader sense, however, Torah includes the entire Written Law (Tanach), and the entire Oral Law (Mishnah, Talmud, Midrash). In the broadest sense, Torah refers to the entire body of Jewish writings and thought, including the works of commentators throughout the ages."

Edited June 10 by BigSkyDiamond

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 4/17/2025 at 2:11 PM, Lairg said:

I have had a couple of physical experiences of parallel timelines. 

 

It seems that parallel processing exists in Nature.   Presumably that allows more robust processes when unfolding the purpose of a cluster of universes.

 

"Parallel processing is a computing method where multiple tasks are executed simultaneously to increase speed and efficiency. It involves breaking a large problem into smaller subproblems that can be processed at the same time on different processors or cores."

 

yes.

 

so lairg, tell us more about this please ! ! 

I have had a couple of physical experiences of parallel timelines. 

 

my understanding is that time is purely a function of the physical, and does not exist at the non-physical level (the level of soul or divinity or spirit).  It is an artificial human construct.  It does not have an existence of its own.  It is a linear construct created by humans for convenience.  But there is no separate individual "time" that a person can define and point to.  Even science is now recognizing time is an artifical construct and vigorously discussing it.  

 

So since there is no time, but only this moment now in the present, then that means all my past lives are actually happening concurrently, simultaneously, at the same time.  And that explains how healing or growth or trauma in one lifetime can spill over into other lifetimes including my current life.   It also explains how we can even within our own lifetime revisit our past self or future self for healing, advice, information sharing.  (

 

Counselors use this when a person for instance "revisits" a difficult situation in the past and scripts it differently, has interactions occur differently.)   Anyway lairg, looking forward to hearing more on how the parallel timelines were experienced by you.  Thank you.

 

Edited June 10 by BigSkyDiamond

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 4/14/2025 at 5:58 PM, Neirong said:

 

Meaningful interactions are only possible between beings on the same level of existence.
The natural limitations of the human mind would prove to be a barrier to comprehending things beyond.

There is a book, often recommended to beginners, called Jonathan Livingston Seagull, which effectively illustrates how the division between different levels of existence functions.

 

In many pathis (of religion and spirituality) God is both transcendent ("out there") and also immanent (inside us, "in here").  The human has access to God because Divinity resides within us  (soul, spirit, Divine Spark).

 

We not only "interact with God" but God (divinity) is inside each and every one of us.  We can chose to ignore that  part of our self.  Or we can access it and utilize it.  

Edited June 10 by BigSkyDiamond

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

so lairg, tell us more about this please ! ! 

I have had a couple of physical experiences of parallel timelines. 

 

I once lived by myself in a small house.  I went to the fridge to get an  item that was on the front of a shelf.  The item was gone.  No one had come into the house.

 

So I tested for the item being invisible by sweeping my arm through the empty shelf.  Nothing!

 

An hour later I opened the fridge and the item was there again.

 

I tested for poltergeist activity - nothing.

 

Eventually it seemed that the item had not moved but I had.  It looked like I had moved on to a parallel timeline and back again without noticing.

 

A couple of years later in a small townhouse, I left my keys on the empty kitchen bench.  I came back a bit later and the keys were gone - and no visitors had been.  I searched a while and gave up.

 

An hour later the keys were back.   I did the usual tests and it seems that I moved, not the keys.

 

These days, when dealing with the relationship problems of friends, I quite often look at parallel timelines to find resonances.   If I do, I point out the particular timeline and show the scene to the person.   That expands their understanding of their issues and usually releases some of the angst.

 

Since our light-bodies are conjoined at the time, when I look at a scene my friend can see it too and investigate/experiment for themself

 

If some parallel timelines are almost exactly the same, it would seem that timelines have quite a complex fine structure.   When I observe timelines from outside, they flow as clusters of very fine lines - rather like fibre optics.

 

It looks like each arm of this galaxy has its own Intelligence that propagates timelines - and separates the clusters.  Sometimes timelines improperly cross/interact and there is intervention to deal with the problem.

 

In one case a successful Nazi timeline crossed into a successful Arthurian/Grail timeline.  That was not tolerated. 

 

 

At much denser levels, exopolitics.org once reported that friendly aliens had got tired of sorting out timeline problems around this planet and had trained some Earth humans to manage local problems

 

  

 

Edited June 10 by Lairg

[Lairg]

 

I have just remembered another  timeline event from long before

 

I was in the meditation room of the community, by myself.  I had a long deep meditation - far out of the body.

 

When I opened my eyes I was in the wrong room - vaguely familiar but definitely wrong.

 

So I closed my eyes and immediately reopened and I was back in the right room 

 

When I go back to that event, the other room tests as being in another timeline, in another galaxy

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

48 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

I have just remembered another  timeline event from long before

I was in the meditation room of the community, by myself.  I had a long deep meditation - far out of the body.

 

When I opened my eyes I was in the wrong room - vaguely familiar but definitely wrong.

So I closed my eyes and immediately reopened and I was back in the right room 

When I go back to that event, the other room tests as being in another timeline, in another galaxy

 

 

so then just as there are other lifetimes of me in different times and places on earth, so too are there other lifetimes of me in different places in other parts of the universe.  And other lifeforms i have inhabited as well.  I remember once having the most vivid experience if inhabiting a tree that caught on fire and was burning. For much of my life including as a child i have yearned to inhabit large boulders, and large trees.  I can feel the stillness.  Not imagining it, but remembering it.

 

Thank you for describing you r experiences and events.

 

i think of "me" being able to be all these different places at the same time like the sun.  which can be touching and landing and seen in many places all simultaneously all at the same time,  the rays of sunbeams branch off from the central sun and are seen landing on the ground in the icy arctic, and in the humid jungle at the equator, and on the sidewalk of a busy city during rush hour, and on the deck of an apartment building.  All those spots of sunlight on the ground can be traced up and back to the same one sun ("me"). They all emanate from the same sun at the same time but are seen and touch down in different places.

 

so then how do you envision the you in the different places, what is your framework for understanding?

Edited June 11 by BigSkyDiamond

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

There is no "Old Testament" in Judaism.  That is a Christian appellation.

 

That's correct and that is the reason I   wrote  ;  "   Old Testament  /  Jewish God   " .

 

You understand that  /    means ' or '   ? 

 

But I accept the  correction as I probably should have been more accurate and said  ; ' the God described in the Christian Old Testament and the Jewish 'Bible ' .

 

Quote

In Judaism there is Torah which includes the Jewish Bible and a whole lot more (see below)

 

and see MY comment below that ... 
 

Quote

 

So what is described in post above reveals and reflects the proclivities, inclination and mindset of the writer.

 

Indeed, and it was from that mindset I  wanted  the answer to my question , but none was forthcoming .  Your charity might preclude you from this , but I don't expect much  of a reasonable answer from Cadcam . 

 

 

Quote

 

it reminds me of when i lived in an area for an extended period of time that had a large indigenous population that included many different varieties of culture and ethnicity and history and background.  There were 23 recognized groups each with its own distinct language, laws, governance, religion, culture, and environment. Some of the words used were very telling.  If someone of a certain nation looked down on those of another nation, there were derogatory words used to describe not just that person but slurs against the whole nation or tribe. 

 

It occurs to me that the post above is doing that.

 

I'm not clear what 'the above post'  is, the 'above post ' to the one you wrote that  in  is your own post  . Above that are posts from different people .

 

Your above paragraph is interesting but I don't know what it relates to .. In any case , since you have answered me  now, perhaps you would like to answer that question ?   And please don't make a silly Cadcam like response , like asking me if I am an atheist . 

 

Quote

 

-----------

 

"The word “Torah,” in its narrow sense, refers to the Five Books of Moses. In a broader sense, however, Torah includes the entire Written Law (Tanach), and the entire Oral Law (Mishnah, Talmud, Midrash). In the broadest sense, Torah refers to the entire body of Jewish writings and thought, including the works of commentators throughout the ages."

 

Yes ... but why is this added on here  ? 

 

I do know the distinction between the Tanakh and the Torah  .   And I don't know where this  'broader sense ' comes from . BY your own use of the Hebrew terms  ; Torah , Tanach, Mishnah, Talmud, Midrash    you admit the distinctions yourself . 

 

It looks like you are claiming equal validity for the  (supposed )   writings of 'Moses himself '    with later commentators  ... and  a  bunch of  (new ) laws supposedly found by  Hilkiah  during temple restorations . Only the strictest and most traditional of Rabbi  believe that  nowadays ! 

 

Anyway , it seems like a lot of smoke was generated around around a VERY simple question . 

 

Care to answer that question ? 

Edited June 11 by Nungali

[BigSkyDiamond]

14 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I'm not clear what 'the above post'  is, the 'above post ' to the one you wrote that  in  is your own post  . Above that are posts from different people .

 

On 4/14/2025 at 2:31 PM, Nungali said:

But why is this Old Testament  /  Jewish God   'good'   ? I could list his directions to commit atrocities  and his temper tantrums, rages , etc .     all very 'human like'  ... but I am sure you know what I mean . 

 

this post ^ [4/14/2025 at 2:31PM] is the "above post" that was responded to and that was referenced and that was included in my own post.

Edited June 11 by BigSkyDiamond