The Idiots Way

[silent thunder]

Dropping Pearls @steve!

Thank you

[steve]

On 3/5/2024 at 2:36 PM, Elysium said:

But how can one reach to an effortless state without effort to get there? Seems like a paradox to me.

 

Another thing I'd like to mention is that nearly everyone who has ever written about or practiced what is being described in this thread began with other practices, and often concurrently engage in other practices, that do involve effort in a variety of ways. It does irk me a bit when people speak of releasing all effort as if it is something that is easy to do as that tends to push people away who have tried and struggled with this or makes them feel bad about themselves or the practice. This is very simple but not at all easy until one has had appropriate training and lots of practice. Simply stated, we need to exert as much effort as is necessary for us to come to the point where we can genuinely let it go and rest into what is already always present without distraction. I also like this quote from Peter Fenner, "If we didn't do what we didn't need to do, we would never know that we didn't need to do it!" 

 

One of the more important aspects of teaching this stuff is to acknowledge and respect the fact that different people need different things to support their practice. This is constantly changing for each of us over time. For some, it is essential that varying degrees of effort be engaged to stabilize the attention. Otherwise they will simply day dream or doze throughout a meditation session and make no progress at all. For others, a simple pith instruction or the sound of a bird call may be enough to put them right into that open, clear place of spontaneous presence. It is critically important to be aware of what we genuinely need in our practice and to be honest with ourselves about that. Otherwise we are far more likely to waste our time than cultivate skill and experience in meditation (especially so with non-meditation, which is a very precise practice).

 

In my own training, and when I guide or teach, I begin by giving people something to focus on. The first step is to be able to get some control of the attention to keep it from running wild. This takes some effort and time. It is called zhiné in Tibetan (or shamatha in Sanskrit). My teacher once described the effort when we begin this practice as being like an old person with poor eyesight trying to focus on something they are having trouble seeing. Very focused, very intense, lots of effort and often frustration. Gradually, as the mind begins to settle and wander less, we can incrementally release the effort until we are able to release entirely into the unfabricated present moment and simply abide without distraction.

 

For example, one practice I engage in is resting the attention on silence. In the beginning it takes a lot of effortful concentration to first recognize and then keep the attention focused on silence, partly because we are so used to engaging with what is filling the silence and so unfamiliar with silence itself. Little by little we are able to release that effort of listening and simply hear and feel the silence. As our practice continues to deepen over months and years we can even release the very subtle effort associated with hearing and simply be silence itself. This is tough to describe in words and may sound far-fetched but is very clear to one who practices and has this experience.

 

Once we gain some skill and familiarity with this it becomes easy to rest and open the attention under a variety of circumstances utilizing little or no effort and being free from distraction. It's little more than a shift of attention combined with stability cultivated through practice. At this stage, the practice is no longer limited to sitting on a meditation cushion in a quiet room. We can bring it into our lives and engage this practice under the most challenging circumstances imaginable. This is what it means when dzogchenpas talk about 'bringing all experience onto the path.' Ultimately this is intended to be a continuous practice that is beautifully described in Namkhai Norbu's book, The Cycle of Day and Night. 

[idiot_stimpy]

 

Edited March 11 by idiot_stimpy

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

Relax. You already have everything that you need. Your nature is already whole. Your nature is already pure. There is nothing to obtain. By the power of practicing the buddhadharma, give up and let go of what is obscuring your primordial buddha nature.
~ Chamtrul Rinpoche

 

[silent thunder]

Release everything.

 

What remains is one's nature.

[manitou]

On 2/24/2024 at 12:37 AM, idiot_stimpy said:

Nothing needs to be understood,

As everything has already been accomplished.

 

 

 

Time isn't linear.  It's already happened 

[silent thunder]

Awareness is

 

It requires no thing, no upkeep.

No thing to achieve, or maintain.

 

i am

this is it!

[idiot_stimpy]

It's effortless. If you need to exert effort to maintain it, it's not it.

[idiot_stimpy]

Unchanging stillness that contains changing movement.

[silent thunder]

That which never arises and does not diminish...

 

Accomodates all arisings and occurences without grasping or fleeing...

 

Unchanged and unchanging in the midst of the ever unfolding and ever shifting...

 

Awareness is

[Mark Foote]

 

 

Let the mind be present without an abode.

 

(from the Diamond Sutra, translation by Venerable Master Hsing Yun from “The Rabbit’s Horn: A Commentary on the Platform Sutra”, Buddha’s Light Publishing p 60)

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

rig pa. The standard Tibetan translation of the Sanskrit term VIDYĀ, or “knowledge.” The Tibetan term, however, has a special meaning in the ATIYOGA and RDZOGS CHEN traditions of the RNYING MA sect of Tibetan Buddhism, where it refers to the most profound form of consciousness. Some modern translators of Tibetan texts into European languages consider the term too profound to be rendered into a foreign language, while others translate it as “awareness,” “pure awareness,” or “mind.”

 

Unlike the “mind of clear light” ( PRABHĀSVARACITTA ; ’od gsal gyi sems) as described in other tantric systems, rig pa is not said to be accessible only in extraordinary states, such as death and sexual union; instead, it is fully present, although generally unrecognized, in each moment of sensory experience. Rig pa is described as the primordial basis, characterized with qualities such as presence, spontaneity, luminosity, original purity, unobstructed freedom, expanse, clarity, self-liberation, openness, effortlessness, and intrinsic awareness. It is not accessible through conceptual elaboration or logical analysis. Rather, rig pa is an eternally pure state free from the dualism of subject and object (cf. GRĀHYAGRĀHAKAVIKALPA), infinite and complete from the beginning. It is regarded as the ground or the basis of both SAṂSĀRA and NIRVĀṆA , with the phenomena of the world being its reflection; all thoughts and all objects of knowledge are said to arise from rig pa and dissolve into rig pa.

 

The ordinary mind believes that its own creations are real, forgetting its true nature of original purity. For the mind willfully to seek to liberate itself is both inappropriate and futile because rig pa is already self-liberated. Rig pa therefore is also the path, and its exponents teach practices that instruct the student how to distinguish rig pa from ordinary mental states. These practices include a variety of techniques designed to eliminate karmic obstacles (KARMĀVARA Ṇ A), at which point the presence of rig pa in ordinary experience is introduced, allowing the mind to eliminate all thoughts and experiences itself, thereby recognizing its true nature. Rig pa is thus also the goal of the path, the fundamental state that is free from obscuration. Cf. LINGZHI.

 

Edited March 14 by idiot_stimpy

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

...it is fully present, although generally unrecognized, in each moment of sensory experience.

 

If it requires any form of effort to see it and maintain it in meditation, it is not it. 

 

Awareness of the totality of the NOW, it 'just is'. The 'just is', always is, effortlessly is, right now. It does not change, although its contents change.

[S:C]

2 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Unlike the “mind of clear light” ( PRABHĀSVARACITTA ; ’od gsal gyi sems) as described in other tantric systems, rig pa is not said to be accessible only in extraordinary states, such as death and sexual union; instead, it is fully present, although generally unrecognized, in each moment of sensory experience.

So there’s a clear difference stated. 

[idiot_stimpy]

36 minutes ago, S:C said:

So there’s a clear difference stated. 

 

The first quote was copied from an interesting thread a Dharma Wheel forums. Another one relating to your reply is below. 

 

Quote

"If we examine the notion of Buddhahood from the logical standpoint, we find that the Nirmanakaya and the Sambhogakaya are impermanent, whereas the Dharmakaya alone is permanent. But when we further examine the Dharmakaya, we discover that there are two sides to it. On the side of Shunyata or emptiness, it is permanent, but on the side of wisdom, it is impermanent. The Kunzhi, the basis of everything, is permanent because it is emptiness itself, but Rigpa is impermanent because it is not always manifest. Nevertheless, these two, Kunzhi and Rigpa, are always inseparable (dbyer-med) in the Natural State.

 

On the side of emptiness (stong-cha), there is permanence, but on the side of clarity (gsal-cha) or awareness (rig-cha), there is impermanence. So, the manifestation side is impermanent, even when it represents pure vision. It is changing all of the time, whereas the emptiness side is constant and permanent. We can logically distinguish these things when we speak about the Natural State, but the Natural State is a totality and a perfect unity. Within it, emptiness and clarity are inseparable and never otherwise. This inseparability, or Yermed (dbyer-med), is the essence of Dzogchen. To fall either on the side of emptiness or on the side of manifestation is to deviate from the Dzogchen view and to fall into partiality and extreme views."
[...]
"The other key term is Kunzhi. But Kunzhi has a different meaning in Chittamatra from that in Dzogchen. In the Chittamatra system, Kunzhi Namshe is one of the eight relative and conditioned consciousnesses (rnam-shes), and it functions as the container of the karmic traces (bag-chags). It is called Kunzhi because all (kun) karmic traces, both good and bad, are contained consciousness or Kunzhi Namshe and this consciousness knows these karmic traces.

According to the Chittamatra view, when Nirvana is attained, the Kunzhi Namshe dissolves. The Dzogchen view is different. All of existence is contained in the Kunzhi because it is the Base of both Samsara and Nirvana. Therefore, it does not dissolve. The Kunzhi is emptiness itself, it represents the matrix out of which can manifest all possible forms. Therefore, it is compared to the sky, or to infinite space. It is not just a container or storage place for the baggage of karmic traces. It does not serve as the basis for these karmic traces because it is primordially pure (ka-dag). But according to Chittamatra, the Kunzhi Namshe is impure because it is mixed up with karmic traces.

 

When these karmic traces are finally purified, the Kunzhi disappears. The ordinary mind or consciousness (rnam-shes), which is soiled with karmic traces, is now transformed into Buddha-mind, or primordial awareness (ye­ shes), which is clean in itself and without karmic traces. It is like washing the hands. When all the dirt has been washed off, the hands are still there. What remains is only this pristine awareness or knowledge (ye-shes). So we say that when the Kunzhi Namshe has been purified of all karmic traces, it becomes the knowledge of the Dharmadhatu (bon-dbyings ye-shes).

In Dzogchen, the Kunzhi is the basis (gzhi) of everything (kun) in both Samsara and Nirvana. In the Dzogchen context, Kunzhi means the empty, unchanging Natural State. In it all things exist spontaneously and potentially. But in terms of the Natural State, there is nothing to be purified or changed or transformed. Thus we speak of it as being primordially pure (ka­ dag); it has never been sullied or adulterated by the karmic traces of Samsara. Nevertheless, it remains the basis of everything. Whatever arises, arises in the Natural State and whatever liberates, is liberated in the Natural State."

 

[manitou]

18 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

When these karmic traces are finally purified, the Kunzhi disappears. The ordinary mind or consciousness (rnam-shes), which is soiled with karmic traces, is now transformed into Buddha-mind, or primordial awareness (ye­ shes), which is clean in itself and without karmic traces. It is like washing the hands. When all the dirt has been washed off, the hands are still there. What remains is only this pristine awareness or knowledge (ye-shes). So we say that when the Kunzhi Namshe has been purified of all karmic traces, it becomes the knowledge of the Dharmadhatu (bon-dbyings ye-shes).

 

 

Wonderful paragraph.  As I see it, this is the very foundation of the approach to an enlightened state.  It's not talked about nearly enough.  Folks love to go onto different pathways, as it says in the DDJ, but the middle way is the one that goes down through the karmic traces, through the conditioning, through everything that gives us a separate personality.  We go down inside ourselves, out of necessity to remove inner blemishes that will contort the lens of our own observations.  Enlightenment is the state where the inner contortions are gone and all is clarified.  It's not a far-reaching knowledge that has been learned from masters and books and the experience of the great ones.  It's the inner awareness that we develop; cultivating an uncomplicated awareness is the absolute predecessor.  Why am I like this?  Why does this make me so mad?  How come I always go for the same men?  Why am I so lacking of confidence?  There are a million questions we ask of ourselves to get down to the real reasons for our behavior today.

It's to try and remove every piece of conditioning within yourself that causes you to make judgments, and why the need for making judgments at all.  So many facets to look at.  And life does it for us.  As Castaneda called it, it was 'tracking yourself', which was to walk in impeccability, in awareness, always keeping the Great Warrior with you.  From this point on, we can start tracking our behavior, correcting it as we go along.  Just partner up with life...

[Mark Foote]

23 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

If it requires any form of effort to see it and maintain it in meditation, it is not it. 

 

Awareness of the totality of the NOW, it 'just is'. The 'just is', always is, effortlessly is, right now. It does not change, although its contents change.

 

 

But does the action of the body, and possibly of the mind, proceed from the experience of "just is" without departing the experience?

 

That's the real test.

[idiot_stimpy]

2 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

 

But does the action of the body, and possibly of the mind, proceed from the experience of "just is" without departing the experience?

 

That's the real test.

 

 

I think movement happens simultaneously with the experience of the unchanging now. Its not separate from it. 

[Mark Foote]

20 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

 

I think movement happens simultaneously with the experience of the unchanging now. Its not separate from it. 
 

Is that different from what I said?

 

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

Always being unobstructed is mirrorlike wisdom.

From the beginning, the unconditioned purity of the way of abiding in unconditioned wisdom is the quality of immaculate Dharmakaya. From that quality, the self-radiance of the way that appearances manifest is the immaculate, flawless all-pervasive great exaltation mandala of the Victorious Ones.

 

So therefore, the pure way of abiding in unconditioned wisdom and the way that appearances manifest are evenly pure. This is called the wisdom of eveness. The reason sentient beings do not have eveness between the way of abiding in unconditioned wisdom and the way that appearances manifest is that even though the way of abiding in unconditioned wisdom is pure, they do not recognise the pure way that appearances manifest, so they are deluded in manifestation due to their misinterpretation of phenomena from the conceptualisation of dualistic mind.

 

Therefore, for sentient beings, the way of abiding in unconditioned wisdom and the way that appearances manifest are seen as uneven, so phenomena are seen as impure. For Buddha, the purity of the way of abiding in unconditioned wisdom and the way that appearances manifest are even.

 

Since the way of abiding in unconditioned wisdom is stainlessly pure, it's quality is to manifest unobstructedly with flawless exaltation wisdom body, unobscured wisdom speech, and undecided wisdom mind as the mandala of deities with immeasurable wisdom and immaculate pure lands..This unobstructed nature is called mirror like wisdom.

 

                                         ~

 

A Cascading Waterfall of Nectar.

 

Thinley Norbu Rinpoche commentary on the Ngondro from the treasure texts of Dudjom Lingpa.

 

[Mark Foote]

20 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

 

I think movement happens simultaneously with the experience of the unchanging now. Its not separate from it. 
 

 

 

Ok, that is actually different from what I said, when I said:   

 

But does the action of the body, and possibly of the mind, proceed from the experience of "just is" without departing the experience?

 

That's the real test.

 

You quote Thinley Norbu Rinpoche's commentary on the Ngondro from the treasure texts of Dudjom Lingpa:

 

So therefore, the pure way of abiding in unconditioned wisdom and the way that appearances manifest are evenly pure. This is called the wisdom of eveness. 

 

 

He does not say that the way of abiding in unconditioned wisdom and the way that appearances manifest are the same thing, he only says they are evenly pure.  That's the distinction I'm trying to make:  they are separate, although I don't experience (or I haven't experienced) the complete separation that he seems to describe.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16 by Mark Foote

[manitou]

 

 

Nice thread.  I think the most accurate detector of our own clarity is by monitoring our own reactions to things.  If we are quick to anger, always having to push anger down, if we are judgmental of anyone or any group of people, the list goes on and on.....the more reactions we have to our surroundings (reactions which are based on our young conditionings) the less clarity we have.  The purity and evenness spoken of above is the state in which all things are received without judgment (optimally!) and dealt with, again without the interference of our own prejudices and wrong or cynical thinking.

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

In Dzogchen, what is direct recognition?

 

In Dzogchen, direct recognition (Tibetan: ངོ་རྣམས་, Wylie: ngo rnam, THL: ngo nam) refers to the profound and immediate cognizance or knowing of the nature of mind. Let’s explore this concept further:

 

Essence of Mind: Dzogchen teaches that the nature of mind is inherently pure, luminous, and non-dual. It is beyond ordinary conceptual thinking and dualistic distinctions.

 

Beyond Intellectual Understanding: Direct recognition goes beyond mere intellectual understanding. It is not a product of analysis or reasoning. Instead, it is an intuitive insight that arises spontaneously.

 

Non-Meditation: Unlike other meditation practices, Dzogchen does not involve deliberate effort or techniques. Direct recognition occurs in a state of non-meditation, where the mind rests naturally without grasping or rejecting.

 

Pointing-Out Instructions: The pointing-out instruction (as mentioned earlier) plays a crucial role in facilitating direct recognition. A qualified teacher directly introduces the practitioner to the nature of mind, bypassing conceptual layers.

 

Recognizing Rigpa: Rigpa, often translated as pure awareness or non-dual awareness, is the essence of direct recognition. It is the unchanging, ever-present awareness that underlies all experiences.

 

Spontaneous Presence: When direct recognition occurs, the practitioner recognizes the nature of mind as spontaneous presence—a vivid, unmediated experience of rigpa.

 

Integration: After initial recognition, the practitioner integrates this understanding into daily life. The challenge lies in sustaining this recognition beyond formal meditation sessions.

 

Remember, direct recognition is not a mental construct or belief; it is a direct encounter with the timeless essence of our being. 

 

Bing AI

Edited March 18 by idiot_stimpy

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

In brief, from the beginning, awareness has never existed as a substantial entity with elaborated characteristics, its nature is primally pure, void, vast, and all-pervasive. As the radiance of voidness is unobstructed, the ocean of phenomena of samsara and nirvana appears spontaneously, like the sun and its rays; thus awareness is not a blank nothingness, totally void, for its natural expression is the great spontaneous presence of the qualifies of primordial wisdom.

 

- Kabjye Dudjom Rinpoche - On The Path to Enlightenment by Matthieu Ricard

 

[manitou]

On 3/19/2024 at 6:59 AM, idiot_stimpy said:

 

 

 

It seems to me that the mind the rinpoche is describing is the meditative mind free of mental dialogue.  This is why meditation is such a crucial component of enlightened thought