I started meditating to relax and I ended up sobbing with rage - am I stange?

[Apech]

20 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

was? was that before or after this

the idealistic explanation is because these are the later times of kali-yuga. the materialistic one is because of the hydrocarbs based diet. either way les jeux sont faits; rien ne va plus 

I love it when you talk in French 

[Nintendao]

45 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Around the time of Laozi the character for liver (肝 gān) was used as a euphemism for inner feelings (Kroll, page 127),

thus ‘liver stagnation’ can refer to an emotional blockage. 

yeah! I notice a lot of times (肝 gān) is used like "guts" even today. To have a gut feeling, or make a gutsy move. Guts are organs, like livers, but we know what it's talking about a little different.

 

8 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

"wings" … in the next stage.

btw you dont have to wait until after-death to use them, that is an urban myth. in the Light body frame of reference, most stages are overlapping to certain extents

[Cobie]

36 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

… the materialistic one is because of the hydrocarbs based diet …

(Google) food that contains hydrocarbon … certain cooked meat products such as flame-grilled burgers. 
 We’re done for. 
 

 

Edited February 10, 2024 by Cobie

[Cobie]

13 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

yeah! I notice a lot of times (肝 gān) is used like "guts" even today. To have a gut feeling, or make a gutsy move. Guts are organs, like livers, but we know what it's talking about a little different.

Thanks. 
 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

48 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

 

Most qigong is going to be the perfect surrogate for climbing trees. Humans' bodies function great when maneuvering around in branches to get the fruit, nuts, and eggs. Also living in caves or underwater are good, too. The gym style exercises of today don't offer the same level of twists and stretches in all directions. Unless maybe a jungle gym. Can you meet the challenge of climbing trees? There was a time when every kid on the block could do it. Doesn't matter how out of shape you are just start at the bottom and try again every day you will make it one centimeter at a time. 

 

This might just sound like a novel take on the standard "qigong make you healthy, which usually also feels happy," but there is something deeper if you ask me. In the larger-frame spiritual life cycle, the Earth body is a stage comparable to a larva. It develops tensegrity in order to properly interact on an energetic level. The more it can do this, the better "wings" will work in the next stage.

Very interesting that you mentioned this. My recent exercise regime has been rock climbing/bouldering. I find it to be much better for me than going to the gym. I’m building muscle much faster, and it’s more fun than doing the same sets in the gym.

[Cobie]

2 hours ago, Cobie said:

Around the time of Laozi the character for liver (肝 gān) was used as a euphemism for inner feelings (Kroll, page 127),

thus ‘liver stagnation’ can refer to an emotional blockage. 

So why the liver?

Might be a form of sympathetic magic, the liver has a dark reddish-brown colour.
Think chakra colours, e.g. @Apech rage is associated with the red chakra.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2024 by Cobie

[Nungali]

 

Yes, but his system might be different  to yours ,

 

 

 

you can see where his 'red chakra'  is   situated   below

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bhathen]

9 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

was? was that before or after this

Been about 4 years since I stopped doing qigong. Learnt to not mix systems so stopped practicing.

 

Jogging and meds have helped me greatly with my present situation. Still the roots remain, which is why this thread resonates.

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 2/10/2024 at 9:57 AM, Cobie said:

Oh no, we’re back at Castaneda? 

 

Do people actually still take his work seriously given that:

 

"Today Castaneda is dismissed as a hoaxer, a fraud, a sexual predator, a cult leader and maybe a psychopath. His books continue to sell, but his academic credibility is zero;"  and the books were  "published in 1968 as a work of anthropology though it is now widely considered a work of fiction."

 

Sources: article by Daniel Miller 2023; and Wikipedia

 

[Cobie]

 

36 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

Do people actually still take his work seriously given that: …

It is widely known, regardless there are still some devotees on the forum. Surprises me too. I gave up on CC at the time the books came out, because he seemed to be ok with torturing a little salamander. That said it all to me. There’s also the  Amy Wallace book  https://www.amazon.com/Sorcerers-Apprentice-Life-Carlos-Castaneda/dp/1583942068 

 

Edited August 5 by Cobie

[Annnon]

On 09/02/2024 at 12:07 AM, silent thunder said:

so deeply grateful for this place...

 

WHO CARES??????

[Apech]

57 minutes ago, Annnon said:

WHO CARES??????

 

Not you presumably.

[Apech]

On 8/5/2025 at 10:38 PM, Cobie said:

 

It is widely known, regardless there are still some devotees on the forum. Surprises me too. I gave up on CC at the time the books came out, because he seemed to be ok with torturing a little salamander. That said it all to me. There’s also the  Amy Wallace book  https://www.amazon.com/Sorcerers-Apprentice-Life-Carlos-Castaneda/dp/1583942068 

 

 

Unfortunately I read that book.  I still like CC's books but no, I don't torture lizards.

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 2/8/2024 at 7:03 PM, Taomeow said:

Happened to me too a couple of years ago, under very stressful circumstances. 

 

I know there's scores of other explanations possible, but for myself, I believe it happened because I violated my own rule:  do not use sitting meditation as a substitute for any other self-regulating routines or techniques.  I learned a long time ago that I should not sit down to meditate with the goal of calming down when I'm upset, of settling my feelings or thoughts when they're in disarray, etc..; nor when I'm physically unwell.  Normally I treat sitting meditation the way someone would treat any event for which you are supposed to be "together" to begin with in order to attend.  Get your shit together first, go to the party later.    

 

Walking/moving meditation -- that's different.  That I can and do use toward mood/cognition/physical condition modifications.  

 

regarding bold above i absolutely DO sit down and do deep breathing for all of these:

calming down when i am upset, yes

settling my feelings or thoughts when they are in disarray, yes

when i am physically unwell, yes

 

the core of my sitting meditation IS deep breathing (and allowing and pure awareness) which has the effect for me of (a) calming everything down, and also (b) brings remarkable clarity to whatever it is that is associated with the upset or dis-ease. Because (c) the relaxation, stillness,  silence, and spaciousness have the effect of de-escalating whatever is spinning out in my thoughts, emotions, or pain body. 

 

 

On 2/8/2024 at 7:03 PM, Taomeow said:

 my own rule:  do not use sitting meditation as a substitute for any other self-regulating routines or techniques. ... I treat sitting meditation the way someone would treat any event for which you are supposed to be "together" to begin with in order to attend.  Get your shit together first, go to the party later.      

 

for me it is not a "substitute" for other healthy supports in my life.  But it is a core component (if not THE core component) of keeping my life (and all levels of my being) in balance order and harmony.  So in the parlance of the post above it is not what i do "after" getting it together.  It is what i do that actually brings about  and is the mechanism for getting it gogether.  

 

otherwise it's like someone telling me to only take medicine when i am healthy and well to begin with.  for me that is backwards.  it's the other way around.   sitting meditation for me is one of the most (if not THE most) healthy, nurturing, nourishing, loving self-care paractices in my daily life.

 

Edited Saturday at 05:47 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Apech]

1 minute ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

regarding bold above i absolutely DO sit down and do deep breathing for all of these:

calming down when i am upset, yes

settling my feelings or thoughs when they are in disarray, yes

when i am physically unwell, yes

 

the core of my sitting meditation IS deep breathing which has the effect for me of (a) calming everything down, and also (b) brings remarkable clarity to whatever it is that is associated with the upset or dis-ease. Because (c) the relaxation, stillness,  silence, and spaciousness have the effect of descalating whatever is spinning out in my thoughts, emotions, or pain body. 

 

 

 

for me it is not a "substitute" for other healthy supports in my life.  But it is a core component (if not THE core component) of keeping my life (and all levels of my being) in balance order and harmony.  So in the parlance of the post above it is not what i do "after" getting it together.  It is what i do that actually brings about  and is the mechanism for getting it gogether.  

 

otherwise it's like someone telling me to only take medicine when i am healthy and well to begin with.  for me that is backwards.  it's the other way around.   sitting meditation for me is one of the most (if not THE most) healthy, nurturing, nourishing, loving self-care paractices in my daily life.

 

I think there may be a divergence of thought on what exactly meditation is.

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

I think there may be a divergence of thought on what exactly meditation is.

 

not what meditation is.

rather, the beliefs a person holds about what meditation is

and the beliefs about how it is used in their life

and the beliefs about what it can and can not do

 

 

that in itself makes for a very interesting discussion

sort of like "what place does Divinity hold in your life"  "what role does meditation hold in your life"

 

Edited Saturday at 05:27 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Apech]

4 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

not what meditation is.

rather, the beliefs a person holds about what meditation is

and the beliefs about how it is used in their life

and the beliefs about what it can and can not do

 

 

Not sure what distinction you are making between thoughts and beliefs here.

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

Just now, Apech said:

Not sure what distinction you are making between thoughts and beliefs here.

 

when i hear "what exactly meditation is" it conveys, implies, gives the impression that it is cut and dried and definitive.

definitive: of a conclusion or agreement done or reached decisively and with authority.

 

for meditation, as seen on this board, there is not a definitive "what exactly meditation is"

rather people have a range of beliefs, views, opinions, thoughts, ideas about meditation, how they use it in their life, and what it does and does not do.

 

14 minutes ago, Apech said:

I think there may be a divergence of thought on what exactly meditation is.

 

So yes the post does say divergence of thought, but what jumped out at me was the part "what exactly meditation is."

we may be saying the same thing.  I just wanted to emphasize that there is a range and it is not one size fits all.

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

when i hear "what exactly meditation is" it conveys, implies, gives the impression that it is cut and dried and definitive.

definitive: of a conclusion or agreement done or reached decisively and with authority.

 

for meditation, as seen on this board, there is not a definitive "what exactly meditation is"

rather people have a range of beliefs, views, opinions, thoughts, ideas about meditation, how they use it in their life, and what it does and does not do.

 

 

So yes the post does say divergence of thought, but what jumped out at me was the part "what exactly meditation is."

we may be saying the same thing.  I just wanted to emphasize that there is a range and it is not one size fits all.

 

OK thanks for the explanation.

 

For me it is true that meditation is, while being hard to define exactly, ultimately a way to see reality.  Everything else I do to say, adjust energy or mood or feeling or thoughts and so on is a preparation for meditating and not meditation itself.  For things that regulate my body/mind I sometimes use the term maintenance because its like giving yourself a service so you are running properly.  Even the first steps for meditation proper fall into this category.

 

Just for background I do (or try to do) what is called Mahamudra Buddhist meditation (which is a bit like Dzogchen).

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

22 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

OK thanks for the explanation.

 

For me it is true that meditation is, while being hard to define exactly, ultimately a way to see reality.  Everything else I do to say, adjust energy or mood or feeling or thoughts and so on is a preparation for meditating and not meditation itself.  For things that regulate my body/mind I sometimes use the term maintenance because its like giving yourself a service so you are running properly.  Even the first steps for meditation proper fall into this category.

 

Just for background I do (or try to do) what is called Mahamudra Buddhist meditation (which is a bit like Dzogchen).

 

thank you for the additional insights, very interesting. 

it touches also on something else which i give thought to often, and that is the parameters of and relationship between "meditation" and the "rest of" my daily life.   

 

i keep a log of time spent daily, how many hours or minutes, on "walking in nature" and "qi gong."   There is no separate category for meditation.  The time i spend daily sitting in meditation is recorded in the qi gong category, because qigong teacher said that "quiet sitting" is not only part of qi gong, but that it is the most important part.  

 

My view (and goal and intent) is that what I develop and cutlivate in "formal" sitting meditation (the deep breathing, the pure awareness, the silence stillness spacious) all carry over and spill over into my daily life.  That they become and are the foundation of how i go through my day no matter what the situation or circumstance.  So, not limited to or compartmentalized to the hour sitting on the floor.  

 

Thanks again for the thoughtful input on various elements.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:17 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Cobie]

For me, meditation is ‘being’. 

[BigSkyDiamond]

2 minutes ago, Cobie said:

For me, meditation is ‘being’. 

 

like the saying, we are a human being, not a human doing.

[Annnon]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

Not you presumably.

I was just testing your anger

 

Saturdays are so boring I'm just seeking some dopamine spike

 

#peace

Edited Saturday at 06:30 PM by Annnon

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

not what meditation is.

rather, the beliefs a person holds about what meditation is

 

 

I suspect that Buddhist forms of meditation, as well as more modern split-offs like mindfulness, are vastly different from some traditional forms of Taoist meditation.  It´s possible that the Buddhist forms are indeed useful for shifting emotional states; the Taoist forms less so.

Edited Saturday at 06:30 PM by liminal_luke

[Apech]

51 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I suspect that Buddhist forms of meditation, as well as more modern split-offs like mindfulness, are vastly different from some traditional forms of Taoist meditation.  It´s possible that the Buddhist forms are indeed useful for shifting emotional states; the Taoist forms less so.

Zouwang is very similar to what I do.