Spotless at Batgap

[dwai]

 

[blue eyed snake]

thanks for posting, nice interview.

I do miss @Spotless here

[steve]

Very cool, it may take me some time to get through the whole interview. I appreciate you posting this here. I also miss having Spotless here. 

[blue eyed snake]

I wonder,

 

he describes how "water" goes up the spine and then turns a corner and fills up a flat disc shaped cushion  at the height of the nipples, and then he wonders whether that was a kundalinilike occurrence. 

 

 

I remember well how I experienced  the opening of the MCO as cool water, rushing through the channels as water filling up a dry riverbed. I've always thought that kundalini energy is hot energy, not cool and water like. 

 

anybody more information on this?

[Maddie]

I don't want to sound dense but what exactly is the point of the MCO. When I began I was told do the MCO, and I was like "ok". After a while though I thought "why am I doing this". I never really understood so I stopped. 

[Apech]

20 minutes ago, Maddie said:

I don't want to sound dense but what exactly is the point of the MCO. When I began I was told do the MCO, and I was like "ok". After a while though I thought "why am I doing this". I never really understood so I stopped. 

It was specially invented to give DaoBums something to argue about.

[Apech]

35 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

I wonder,

 

he describes how "water" goes up the spine and then turns a corner and fills up a flat disc shaped cushion  at the height of the nipples, and then he wonders whether that was a kundalinilike occurrence. 

 

 

I remember well how I experienced  the opening of the MCO as cool water, rushing through the channels as water filling up a dry riverbed. I've always thought that kundalini energy is hot energy, not cool and water like. 

 

anybody more information on this?

In my humble opinion k is hot and a different magnitude to cool flushing energy.  Both are good though.

[blue eyed snake]

21 minutes ago, Apech said:

It was specially invented to give DaoBums something to argue about.

 

an apt description

[blue eyed snake]

43 minutes ago, Maddie said:

I don't want to sound dense but what exactly is the point of the MCO. When I began I was told do the MCO, and I was like "ok". After a while though I thought "why am I doing this". I never really understood so I stopped. 

 

from the little I have learned 

 

erm...

 

energy should flow through 'meridians' /tubes. But it does not very well, there are places were the plumbing just got clogged up. Several practices that we inherited from older times tend to unclog the pipes. 

yoga/chigung/ some tibetan practices that i do not know anything about, probably much more cultures having their ways to unclog the tubes.

 

Interestingly part of those blockages are emotional in nature, when you start 'practicing' you'll find all kind of emotional shit comes up. Then you can let go of that shit,(or keep it so you clog up the tubes again.)

 

when the system gets more unclogged the chi/energy/whatevers flows better and i have conjectured that it is a self serving system once you've got a good starters.

The MCO ( which in my tradition is called the smaller heavenly cycle, if i remember it well, memory is quite fuzzy lately) is the ren and du meridians combined to a circuit.

 

I have never "done" the mco, i was not taught that way, I have been doing standing meditation and some movements, quite boring really. Then all of a sudden "water" started to spout up my back and down my front, it felt as if a dry riverbed was suddenly filled with water. It was literally roaring through my system. Quite a shocking experience.

 

I guess that circuit is still circuiting and in its wake other pipes can become unclogged as long as there is movement.The more unclogging, the more emotional shit gets cleared out of our system. The more emotional shit is gone the better you can see without preconceived notions.

I guess that's about it.

 

cannot tell you what comes after that 

 

The way I was taught there was no visualizing anything, no " doing" of the MCO, in fact I had not heard that term or concept when it started spouting 'water' up my spine.

 

whether to visualize or not is another hot contented bone here on the daobums 

[Maddie]

14 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

from the little I have learned 

 

erm...

 

energy should flow through 'meridians' /tubes. But it does not very well, there are places were the plumbing just got clogged up. Several practices that we inherited from older times tend to unclog the pipes. 

yoga/chigung/ some tibetan practices that i do not know anything about, probably much more cultures having their ways to unclog the tubes.

 

Interestingly part of those blockages are emotional in nature, when you start 'practicing' you'll find all kind of emotional shit comes up. Then you can let go of that shit,(or keep it so you clog up the tubes again.)

 

when the system gets more unclogged the chi/energy/whatevers flows better and i have conjectured that it is a self serving system once you've got a good starters.

The MCO ( which in my tradition is called the smaller heavenly cycle, if i remember it well, memory is quite fuzzy lately) is the ren and du meridians combined to a circuit.

 

I have never "done" the mco, i was not taught that way, I have been doing standing meditation and some movements, quite boring really. Then all of a sudden "water" started to spout up my back and down my front, it felt as if a dry riverbed was suddenly filled with water. It was literally roaring through my system. Quite a shocking experience.

 

I guess that circuit is still circuiting and in its wake other pipes can become unclogged as long as there is movement.The more unclogging, the more emotional shit gets cleared out of our system. The more emotional shit is gone the better you can see without preconceived notions.

I guess that's about it.

 

cannot tell you what comes after that 

 

The way I was taught there was no visualizing anything, no " doing" of the MCO, in fact I had not heard that term or concept when it started spouting 'water' up my spine.

 

whether to visualize or not is another hot contented bone here on the daobums 

 

Did you notice emotional stuff coming up when you did yours? I sure did, big time!

 

[blue eyed snake]

7 minutes ago, Maddie said:

Did you notice

 

did you notice, oh man

't was horrible

 

 

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

did you notice, oh man

't was horrible

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that. And you weren't even trying to make that happen... geez.

[blue eyed snake]

oh no, it's all good, glad I am rid of that shit

[dwai]

21 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

I wonder,

 

he describes how "water" goes up the spine and then turns a corner and fills up a flat disc shaped cushion  at the height of the nipples, and then he wonders whether that was a kundalinilike occurrence. 

 

 

I remember well how I experienced  the opening of the MCO as cool water, rushing through the channels as water filling up a dry riverbed. I've always thought that kundalini energy is hot energy, not cool and water like. 

 

anybody more information on this?

It depends on the blockages one may or may not have. If there are blockages, there is friction - which causes heat like sensation. In real terms, energetic flows aren’t hot or cold, electric or magnetic, etc . The mind interprets them that way. For me, it always feels cool. Like a mentholated sensation flowing through my channels, even rising in the spinal column. 

Edited January 16 by dwai

[S:C]

37 minutes ago, dwai said:

In real terms, energetic flows aren’t hot or cold, electric or magnetic, etc . The mind interprets them that way.

How is that interpreting possible? 
 

What do you mean with „in real terms“?

Funny, why is it cool for many and hot for others? Electric or fluid? What influences minds interpretation?

[Maddie]

30 minutes ago, S:C said:

How is that interpreting possible? 
 

What do you mean with „in real terms“?

Funny, why is it cool for many and hot for others? Electric or fluid? What influences minds interpretation?

 

Basically he's distinguishing between objective reality and subjective experience. 

[S:C]

3 hours ago, Maddie said:

Basically he's distinguishing between objective reality and subjective experience. 

What is what? 
 

Sense data interpreted by mind - subjective.

Objectively it is not hot, only a sign of the body, that there is inflammation and trying to defeat outside or pathological bacterial or viral influences? What is it about TCM heat? Where does that come from?
 

What of that is objective? 
Why does this seem obvious to anyone but me?! Oh well… there’s @kakapo, at least someone.

Edited January 16 by S:C

[Maddie]

7 minutes ago, S:C said:

What is it about TCM heat? Where does that come from?

 

There are so many ways "heat" can get in the body, there is a whole ancient text just about that. 

[blue eyed snake]

On 15-1-2024 at 8:37 PM, Maddie said:

 

Sorry to hear that. And you weren't even trying to make that happen... geez.

 

oh, by the time the MCO started to flow I was totally aware of the emotional effects and glad about it.

 

better out then in

 

but the flowing water experience caught me by surprise as at that time I had no idea such things could happen.

[S:C]

15 minutes ago, Maddie said:

a whole ancient text just about that. 

Would you mind telling which one it is you speak about?

[blue eyed snake]

5 hours ago, dwai said:

It depends on the blockages one may or may not have. If there are blockages, there is friction - which causes heat like sensation. In real terms, energetic flows aren’t hot or cold, electric or magnetic, etc . The mind interprets them that way. For me, it always feels cool. Like a mentholated sensation flowing through my channels, even rising in the spinal column. 

 

thank you, that's an interesting take on it.

 

It's something that has puzzled me for a while, from what I understand Kundalini goes up the spine and out the top of the head. And often it is referred to as a hot energy, but the " heat' being caused by " friction" is a nice concept.

 

 

The daoist take though is that the energy goes up the Du mai then  down again, that it forms a circuit with the Ren mai.

 

and thus I am wondering whether the same "tube" in the spine is used for those 2 rising energies.

 

[S:C]

4 hours ago, Maddie said:

Basically he's distinguishing between objective reality and subjective experience. 

Probably I lack the subjective experience of objective reality. To me objective reality is not available for a subject and through his sense doors, but your concepts and mine might be lost in translation, but thank you for explaining your understanding! 

[blue eyed snake]

4 hours ago, S:C said:

Funny, why is it cool for many and hot for others? Electric or fluid? What influences minds interpretation?

 

apart from the idea of friction that Dwai introduced there is of course relativity

 

think of a bucket with lukewarm water.

a person with cold hands will perceive that water as quite warm, almost hot.

The person with nice warm hands will perceive same water as cool, almost cold.

 

same water.

 

that's with a lot of perceptions, my son is colorblind. He sees the world totally different, which world is more real? 

I cannot perceive depth due to some inborn fuckery, I see the world very different from the next guy

 

what perception is real? (if any )

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, S:C said:

Would you mind telling which one it is you speak about?

 

It's called the "Wen Bing Xue"

[S:C]

3 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

think of a bucket with lukewarm water.

a person with cold hands will perceive that water as quite warm, almost hot.

(…)

what perception is real? (if any )

Great example, thank you! It provides understanding to the difference in perception aspect!  

 

 

 

Edited January 16 by S:C