Does Taoism use "direct pointing"

[snowymountains]

27 minutes ago, Antares said:

But eventually they die. The loss of life essence can be compensated by their virtue -- healthy lifestyle and so on. The downside comes from long seated meds so it depends how long they do it and also they could have some methods to compensate the loss of life essence, I don't know their approach well to comment it. The most important thing is what they reached on the path of enlightenment 

 

Eventually everyone dies, tbh they are some of the happiest and calmest people to be around.

I don't know if they do anything about it nor if they consider it loss of life essence, it's just the first time I hear something along these lines, no teacher has ever brought this up, so can't confirm nor deny it.

[Antares]

14 hours ago, snowymountains said:

I don't know if they do anything about it nor if they consider it loss of life essence, it's just the first time I hear something along these lines, no teacher has ever brought this up, so can't confirm nor deny it.

They just don't know the daoist approach to it. Zen is actually corrupted Chinese Chan. Ancient Chan was equivalent of the daoist neidan. You can read a few articles here

https://www.all-dao.com/essence-taoist-alchemy.html

https://www.all-dao.com/dazuo-meditation.html

[Antares]

So then the modern person has no alternative, but to seek a direct transmission of knowledge , which  stems from the time, when the mankind have a clear understanding of cosmic laws. Of course, we can assume that a genius who can understand these law without could be born. But such an extraordinary person will not need anything at all from this world  let alone a  transmission. On the other hand there exist fake methods invented by ordinary people, these methods are usually only a projection of their mind and have nothing to do with the laws of Cosmos. Here is an example: Did Someone deciphered the Yi Jing? I think the answer is obvious.
Hence stem here need for  the personal transmission. In this case  firstly  there will be  no distortions, and secondly there will be personalized training for each person. Thirdly, in order to avoid deviations the practice will be done under the oversight of Teacher (and not like today, in stadiums, where participants do anything they want). Also, a ritual of accepting a student is a promise by the Teacher to be personally responsible for his student, to vouch for him, including with teachers own destiny...

古圣有言曰命由性修  性由命立 命者炁也性者神也炁  则本不离神神则有时  离炁
Ancient sages said:
Ming is perfected starting from Xing. Because you need the true spiritual condition to find your Teacher and then to practise, i.e. you need the correct  state of mind while practicing.
Xing is established starting from Ming. Without replenishing and perfecting of Ming the true spiritual work is impossible.
Qi is inherently inseparable from the Shen (the spirit). If qi ever comes apart from shen, there will be an instant death. So while the person is alive they are inseparable. (This refers to the out of body experiences of the spirit when qi remains in the body)

=======================================================================================================

Xing and Ming are interrelated. If you work on Xing it boosts your ability to work on Ming and other way around. In other words first one need to realize what is Yin, Yang, how to strengthen them and combine them. I am not sure that Zen people still have this knowledge. 

All this requires "transmission" - I am not sure how it was in ancient times. May be it was possible to "transmit data" straight into smbs mind or to bring person into certain state of mind but these times this should be steady process of "transmission" - that means student should work with his energies steadily beginning from purification of "heart - mind", working with channels, working with Yin and Yang, balancing it out. Teacher helps to recognize certain states of mind correcting this process. The most important thing is to reach the state of balance

[Maddie]

15 minutes ago, Antares said:

So then the modern person has no alternative, but to seek a direct transmission of knowledge , which  stems from the time, when the mankind have a clear understanding of cosmic laws. 

 

I'm not sure if they understood "cosmic law" so well back then. They used to think the earth was the center of the universe and everything orbited it.

[Antares]

6 minutes ago, Maddie said:

I'm not sure if they understood "cosmic law" so well back then. They used to think the earth was the center of the universe and everything orbited it.

So you believe it is the other way around?

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Antares said:

So you believe it is the other way around?

 

We understand that the Earth rotates around the Sun and the sun around the center of the Galaxy now and we didn't used to, so yes.

[Antares]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

We understand that the Earth rotates around the Sun and the sun around the center of the Galaxy now and we didn't used to, so yes.

It has not been proven yet. This is only the notion. I don't believe fake NASA "photos" of the Earth from "deep cosmos".

[Maddie]

7 minutes ago, Antares said:

It has not been proven yet. This is only the notion. I don't believe fake NASA "photos" of the Earth from "deep cosmos".

 

So you don't believe modern science or NASA, but you do believe that hunter-gatherers had a better understanding of cosmology than we do now? Well okily dokily.

[Antares]

15 minutes ago, Maddie said:

but you do believe that hunter-gatherers

The history is cyclic. I dont believe the historical "homeland" of modern "homo-sapience" was Africa and that they were hunter-gathers. All that is not more than preconceived notions. By the way do research what the origin of words ""nasa" and "homo". There are strict answers in their meanings. Also how do you think the why knowledge of "ancient arts" disappeared?  

Edited January 15 by Antares

[Maddie]

Just now, Antares said:

Also how do you think the why knowledge of "ancient arts" disappeared?  

 

Maybe because people rejected science and believed whatever popped into their head?

[Antares]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Maybe because people rejected science and believed whatever popped into their head?

When and how modern "science" appeared? Do you know that even before 19th century people were able to get electricity and heat from Ether?

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, Antares said:

Do you know that even before 19th century people were able to get electricity and heat from Ether?

 

Source?

[Antares]

23 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Source?

There are a few. Not going into it in this thread.

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Antares said:

When and how modern "science" appeared?

 

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

Source?

 

55 minutes ago, Antares said:

There are a few. Not going into it in this thread.

 

Modern science appeared by rejecting the claims that had no evidence and accepting the ones that did. And now your question is answered.

[Neirong]

7 hours ago, Antares said:

Also how do you think the why knowledge of "ancient arts" disappeared?  

I understand that it is fundamental human nature to be egoistic/egocentric and to judge reality by the limited perception that the self provides.
 

But nothing is lost or "disappeared". Only because you or someone else does not have access or there is no book in public, it does not mean the knowledge and methods are lost or even that the practitioners of ancient arts do not exist.

If you are currently studying in kindergarten, it does not mean that school or university does not exist in this World. Yes, you are not able to interact with it until your level of development progresses.

When I look at a mirror casually (without powering up), I see my physical vessel, then I see an electromagnetic blue field covering it, then I see ripples of energy waves circulating across the vessel, expanding further from it is an astral body glowing like a torch in the mirror.

What do you see? How would people expect to evolve beyond physical realm, if they cannot even see it? Are you playing a guessing game? It does not matter how hard a person believes that his path is right and leads somewhere, if there is no power and ability to back it up.

[Antares]

14 hours ago, Neirong said:

I understand that it is fundamental human nature to be egoistic/egocentric and to judge reality by the limited perception that the self provides.

The question is how exactly human "became" egoistic? So you do believe that hunter-gathers were not egoistic and they were very primitive by nature but modern human being is egoistic and they are more "advanced" so that they understand reality better than hunter-gathers? We don't know much about our ancestors and I would even say we know nothing about them. The history is hidden and very much corrupted. The same concerns science and education in general. And I personally am believer that human DNA and minds are under control from ancient times. There was what they call "great reset".  From 15-16th century it began and finished by 20th century

 

14 hours ago, Neirong said:

But nothing is lost or "disappeared". Only because you or someone else does not have access or there is no book in public, it does not mean the knowledge and methods are lost or even that the practitioners of ancient arts do not exist.

 

Why many libraries were burnt then? What was the "crusading period"? Why Shaolin was burnt?

Now they say those people were primitive hunter-gathers.... Why they cant develop new I-CHING system? All ancient arts were diminished along with achievements of those civilizations which created it.

Edited January 16 by Antares

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, Antares said:

Why many libraries were burnt then? What was the "crusading period"? Why Shaolin was burnt?

Libraries weren’t burnt to destroy or hide knowledge, they were burnt to destroy the enemies knowledge.

 

What do people gain from destroying their own knowledge? Nothing. But destroying the knowledge of the enemy means you can get ahead of them.

[Apech]

On 15/01/2024 at 11:01 AM, Maddie said:

 

We understand that the Earth rotates around the Sun and the sun around the center of the Galaxy now and we didn't used to, so yes.

In a relativistic universe any point can be the center of the frame of reference.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Apech said:

In a relativistic universe any point can be the center of the frame of reference.

 

Frame of reference yes. Orbital position no.

[Apech]

5 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Frame of reference yes. Orbital position no.

True orbital position maybe or most certainly is unknown and so to say the earth is central is as true as any other position.

 

the earth is square , heaven is round.

Edited January 16 by Apech

[snowymountains]

So starting from whether direct pointing from teacher to student is a method used in Daoism,

We went to whether the English terminology used in Zen is a good translation from Chinese,

then to Google Roshi's told someone on direct pointing from teacher to student,

and now to earth-centric systems.

 

It keeps getting better and better 😁

 

 

[Apech]

34 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

So starting from whether direct pointing from teacher to student is a method used in Daoism,

We went to whether the English terminology used in Zen is a good translation from Chinese,

then to Google Roshi's told someone on direct pointing from teacher to student,

and now to earth-centric systems.

 

It keeps getting better and better 😁

 

 

 

 

It's rude to point.

 

 

[snowymountains]

10 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

It's rude to point.

 

 

😲

[Antares]

On 1/15/2024 at 4:04 PM, Maddie said:

Modern science appeared by rejecting the claims that had no evidence and accepting the ones that did. And now your question is answered.

Firstly you need to bring ANY solid proof of the theory you declared here. Before you blame anybody else here. At least it would be polite from your side. I don't bring any because it would be off-topic.

[Antares]

3 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Libraries weren’t burnt to destroy or hide knowledge, they were burnt to destroy the enemies knowledge.

Yes, but for some "people" all humanity is their enemy or.... (do research what is the origin of the word "homo" and what the "homo sapiens" means (for them) and then probably you will realize why knowledge is hidden )

Edited January 16 by Antares