My summary of bhagavad gita

[Taoist Texts]

22 minutes ago, dwai said:

The people of the land lived peacefully for generations.

No they did not

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Babhruvahana asked Arjuna to fight and killed his father during the battle. Chitrāngadā came to the battlefield and revealed that Arjuna was her husband and Babhruvahana's father. ....Arjuna took the citizens of Dwaraka, including 16,100 wives of Krishna, to Indraprastha. On the way, they were attacked by a group of bandits. Arjuna desisted fighting seeing the law of time.

Upon the onset of the Kali Yuga and acting on the advice of Vyasa, Arjuna and other Pandavas retired

 

Not only the Kali Yuga started immediately after the war but also Arjuna himself was killed by his own son for no reason at all. There were bandits and mass migrations. Not only dharma did not win as you claimed but it sunk

 

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 one of the earliest inscriptions with one of the four yugas named is the Pikira grant of Pallava Simhavarman (mid-5th century CE):^[19][20]Who was ever ready to extricate dharma that had become sunk owing to the evil effects of Kaliyuga.

 

 

So the war turned out to be nothing good for. Thank you for your answers however.

 

Now the next question you can school me on is the issue of the aggressor. Who first officially declared the war on whom?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurukshetra_War

 

 

55 minutes ago, dwai said:

Who was whose nephew? 

Quote

Arjuna realises that he would have to kill his dear granduncle Bhishma and his respected teacher Drona.

 

 

 

[Sahaja]

 what I derive from the story is that some times your role in life appears to  require you to do something you don’t want to do but not doing it also appears to have consequences. This story to me says in reality the full consequences of any action are unknown and out of my control. So follow your dharma as best you can and let go of the effects of your actions because in reality you don’t know what the full effects will be and you can’t fully control them. All you can do is what you are supposed to do with a good heart and intention.  I’ve actually used the story of Arjuna in a motivational situation at work once with an employee who wanted to quit because of how crap much he was being faced with in the office in Chennai over a very sensitive issue.  I’m not sure I was philosophically correct or aligned with the original intent but I think the discussion helped both of us.

 

[NaturaNaturans]

On 10.10.2023 at 9:09 PM, Daniel said:

Quote

 

 

My only caution when reading these words would be:  "Beware of a false summit.  Keep going."

What i would have given to see the true peak, truly understand god with a capital G. The highest of high. But i think my head will explode trying to get there. It seems impossible, at least trying to approach it with the intellect.

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

No they did not

Not only the Kali Yuga started immediately after the war but also Arjuna himself was killed by his own son for no reason at all. There were bandits and mass migrations. Not only dharma did not win as you claimed but it sunk

 

 

So the war turned out to be nothing good for. Thank you for your answers however.

 

Now the next question you can school me on is the issue of the aggressor. Who first officially declared the war on whom?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurukshetra_War

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look here Taoists texts ! 

 

Just friggen accept the philosophy ..... shut yer mouth , take this gun ... NOW  , shoulders back, chin up, shut yer trap and ...

 

left  .....  left  ..... left  right left  .....

[Nungali]

55 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

What i would have given to see the true peak, truly understand god with a capital G. The highest of high. But i think my head will explode trying to get there. It seems impossible, at least trying to approach it with the intellect.

 

Go gradually and the internal and external pressure will equalize .  Also the process should expand and balance the intellect  ... thats not saying the intellect should lead the expedition though .

 

However it is certainly a valid path  (as 'lesson 1'  showed    )  :

 

I. Yoga is the art of uniting the mind to a single idea. It has four methods.

Gnana-Yoga.	Union by Knowledge.
Raja-Yoga.	Union by Will.
Bhakta-Yoga.	Union by Love.
Hatha-Yoga.	Union by Courage.
add Mantra-Yoga.	Union through Speech.
Karma-Yoga.	Union through Work.

These are united by the supreme method of Silence.

 

II. Ceremonial Magic is the art of uniting the mind to a single idea.

It has four Methods.

The Holy Qabalah.	Union by Knowledge.
The Sacred Magic.	Union by Will.
The Acts of Worship.	Union by Love.
The Ordeals.	Union by Courage.
add The Invocations.	Union by Speech.
The Acts of Service.	Union through Work.

[Daniel]

16 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

What i would have given to see the true peak, truly understand god with a capital G. The highest of high. But i think my head will explode trying to get there. It seems impossible, at least trying to approach it with the intellect.

 

You're there.  Well done. 

 

God capital 'G' cannot be known ( gnosis ), but, it can be understood as unknowable, ineffable, and mysterious.  It can be understood as simultaneously immanent and transcendant.  It can be understood as the "source".

 

Once this is readily, fully understood, and accepted as true, a connection can be made with it, but it is indirect.  It's an "open-secret", one of my favorite sympathetic-paradoxes known commonly as "hiding in plain sight".   The secret is in the "heart".    ( in quotes because it is not literally the heart. )

 

It's theoretically possible to connect intellectually, again, indirectly, but the emotive path is easier ( not easy, easier ) and there's virtually infinite options.  

 

Edit to add after reading one of your other posts:  One of those options that works for many is God-the-Father.  The reason it's popular, is because it works, if it is approached from the heart, not the mind.

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Daniel

[dwai]

20 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

No they did not

Not only the Kali Yuga started immediately after the war but also Arjuna himself was killed by his own son for no reason at all. There were bandits and mass migrations. Not only dharma did not win as you claimed but it sunk

 

 

So the war turned out to be nothing good for. Thank you for your answers however.

 

Now the next question you can school me on is the issue of the aggressor. Who first officially declared the war on whom?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurukshetra_War

 

 

 

 

 

You know, if you look at Indian history from after Mahabharata to the arrival of Islamic invaders in the 8-9th century AD, it was the most affluent country in the world. In fact, until the arrival of the Europeans, especially the British, India was more than 25% of the global GDP. There were no famines, even amidst the most brutal invasions/conquests by the Islamic marauders, people lived in relatively good conditions. Things only took a turn for the worse after the Europeans arrived. 

 

Cherry-picking doesn’t really do justice to a timespan of thousands of years.  

[NaturaNaturans]

So @Daniel back to our discourse on the kingdom and flesh. What is Christ and what is flesh?

 

And about If the writers intention matter:

1. there are several authors of biblical and gnostic texts 

2. i do not think that even the author fully understands what he is saying

3. the only understanding we can ever get, is our own

4. stories work on another level of understanding then reason does

5. the bible contradict itselfs several times, and has been manipulated at a later date

 

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, dwai said:

Cherry-picking doesn’t really do justice to a timespan of thousands of years.  

certainly

On 10/14/2023 at 8:59 PM, Taoist Texts said:

Now the next question you can school me on is the issue of the aggressor. Who first officially declared the war on whom?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurukshetra_War

 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, dwai said:

You know, if you look at Indian history from after Mahabharata to the arrival of Islamic invaders in the 8-9th century AD, it was the most affluent country in the world. In fact, until the arrival of the Europeans, especially the British, India was more than 25% of the global GDP. There were no famines, even amidst the most brutal invasions/conquests by the Islamic marauders, people lived in relatively good conditions. Things only took a turn for the worse after the Europeans arrived. 

 

Cherry-picking doesn’t really do justice to a timespan of thousands of years.  

 

?

 

Really  ? 

 

relative to what ? 

 

 

[Daniel]

On 10/13/2023 at 1:39 PM, Nungali said:

 

Take a powder Daniel .   The mistake in your communication was explained to you pages back .... but you just cant let it go , can you.

 

I asked a simple question which no one is able to answer.  Why should I defer to someone who is wrong, I've proven them wrong, but THEY won't let it go either.

 

I wasn't talking to Bob.  Bob interjected into my conversation and made a failed analogy.  Then argued with me about it.  Then became frustrated with how I was able to, so fully and effectively, demonstrate how absolutely correct I was.

 

| | <----- these two lines are not touching.  They are not making contact.  If someone interrupts my conversation to say, "but they are in contact".  And then they choose to die on that hill, hold their breath until they're turning blue, because they cannot admit their faults, that two parallel lines never ever cross and make contact.  Then, no, I am not going to defer to them.  

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Daniel

[Daniel]

13 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

So @Daniel back to our discourse on the kingdom and flesh. What is Christ and what is flesh?

 

And about If the writers intention matter:

1. there are several authors of biblical and gnostic texts 

2. i do not think that even the author fully understands what he is saying

3. the only understanding we can ever get, is our own

4. stories work on another level of understanding then reason does

5. the bible contradict itselfs several times, and has been manipulated at a later date

 

 

Regarding 1-4, I am a highly analytical person.  So, I would be looking att each of these as possibilities, then comparing them.  From there I would be trying to to assign credibility to each of those individual narratives.  If there is a splinter or a sliver of a specific concept, I would not elevate it beyond the other longer more substantial narratives.

 

Regarding 5, I would look at each contradiction individually and rate them 1-5.  I have actually started doing this a little bit.  Many of the claimed contradictions, especially in the OT are simply a matter of critics and atheists playing silly games with the text in an effort to discredit it.  I have only found 3 or 4 strong contradictions in the OT, and all of them can be explained without too much heart-burn.  The gospels and the epistles are a different story.  There are real contraditions there.  We would need to make a list of them and decide what to do with them.  I'm would need data to make any conclusions about them.  Just speaking about them in general doesn't work for me.  For me.  If you have a conclusion you'd like to make in general, we can talk about it.

 

All of that said, I'm not sure how any of this leads to a monist theology in the gospels.  I already granted that maybe-maybe there is something special and different about Jesus' flesh.  But that is not what's written in John 1.  The only possiblity that I know of would be John 6, but that is certainly not literal.  

Edited October 16, 2023 by Daniel

[dwai]

20 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

certainly

 

Yudhisthira declared war against the Kauravas since they were unwilling to concede after repeated attempts to negotiate a peaceful settlement. Here is a brief account of the steps taken to prevent the war 

 

https://www.amrita.edu/news/strategical-silhouette-of-an-extraordinary-peace-mission/

 

 

[dwai]

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

?

 

Really  ? 

 

relative to what ? 

 

 

Relative to what happened to India under the British occupation

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

Yudhisthira declared war against the Kauravas

excellent so the good Pandavas were the aggressor against the evil Kauravas

2 hours ago, dwai said:

the Kauravas since they were unwilling to concede

here you are scarce on details. Concede what exactly? The kingdom, meaning the riches and power which the good Pandavas wanted. What the good people do when the evil people do not give the good ones riches and power? Why, kill the evil ones of course and take what is theirs by right!

 

You see, Pandavas could perfectly well live in their lands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khandava_Forest

but they wanted the whole kingdom. So they killed their relatives and got killed themselves in a war of aggression  earning Arjuna the terrible karma of being murdered by his own son.

 

Good luck with any take away lessons from this sad tale. The tale of allegedly humongous spiritual insights.

 

thank you mr. @dwai for your kind education. I never miss a chance to confirm in what a smoke and mirror world ordinary people live.

[NaturaNaturans]

@Taoist Texts

I am worried i might sound like an asshole now, but it is a genuine question. When you see a cat kill a mouse, do you apply any moral judgement to it, or ask what the point or consequence is?

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, NaturaNaturans said:

I am worried i might sound like an asshole now, but it is a genuine question.

its a fine question, nothing wrong with it

1 hour ago, NaturaNaturans said:

When you see a cat kill a mouse, do you apply any moral judgement to it, or ask what the point or consequence is?

of course i do.  as i do  with everything i see

in the cat and mouse case i judge it to be bad. all men are either one or the other, but there is a secret not to be either one

 

[NaturaNaturans]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

its a fine question, nothing wrong with it

of course i do.  as i do  with everything i see

in the cat and mouse case i judge it to be bad. all men are either one or the other, but there is a secret not to be either one

 

What is the «not either one?» To live by photosynthesis? And what does mice eat btw? 

Edited October 16, 2023 by NaturaNaturans

[dwai]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

excellent so the good Pandavas were the aggressor against the evil Kauravas

here you are scarce on details. Concede what exactly? The kingdom, meaning the riches and power which the good Pandavas wanted. What the good people do when the evil people do not give the good ones riches and power? Why, kill the evil ones of course and take what is theirs by right!

 

You see, Pandavas could perfectly well live in their lands

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khandava_Forest

but they wanted the whole kingdom. So they killed their relatives and got killed themselves in a war of aggression  earning Arjuna the terrible karma of being murdered by his own son.

 

Good luck with any take away lessons from this sad tale. The tale of allegedly humongous spiritual insights.

 

thank you mr. @dwai for your kind education. I never miss a chance to confirm in what a smoke and mirror world ordinary people live.

Unfortunately Wikipedia-fu doesn’t give someone the authority to pontificate on something they know so little about. So, maybe you will open your mind a bit more and really try to learn something here?

If you had read the Mahabharata you would know that the pandavas were ready to accept 5 villages to prevent the war, never mind that they were the rightful heirs of the full kingdom.
 

It never ceases to amaze me how prominently the dunning-Kruger effect can be seen in action on the internet.  

[Taoist Texts]

9 minutes ago, dwai said:

If you had read the Mahabharata you would know that the pandavas were ready to accept 5 villages to prevent the war,

yes i know. its right there in the wiki

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At the formal presentation of the peace proposal by Krishna in the Kuru Mahasabha at the court of Hastinapura, Krishna asks Duryodhana to return Indraprastha to the Pandavas and restore the status quo, or at least give five villages, one for each of the Pandavas; Duryodhana refuses. Krishna's peace proposals are ignored and dismissed,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurukshetra_War#Krishna's_peace_mission

 

 

12 minutes ago, dwai said:

they were the rightful heirs of the full kingdom.

this pundit disagrees

https://www.leftbrainwave.com/2014/05/why-krishna-sided-with-pandavas.html

 

But thats not the point. The point is that the allegedly good Pandavas together with their alleged god of love Krishna created an unnecessary bloodbath over mere four  villages. Apparently you consider it a good dharmic action.Oh well.

 

26 minutes ago, dwai said:

the dunning-Kruger

an interesting trivia: neither of them was killed by their own sons

39 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

To live by photosynthesis?

i eat meat i just dont kill it. so i dont do what the cat does

41 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

And what does mice btw? 

the mice was stupid enough to be killed. so i dont do what the mice does

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

I asked a simple question which no one is able to answer.  Why should I defer to someone who is wrong, I've proven them wrong, but THEY won't let it go either.

 

I wasn't talking to Bob.  Bob interjected into my conversation and made a failed analogy.  Then argued with me about it.  Then became frustrated with how I was able to, so fully and effectively, demonstrate how absolutely correct I was.

 

| | <----- these two lines are not touching.  They are not making contact.  If someone interrupts my conversation to say, "but they are in contact".  And then they choose to die on that hill, hold their breath until they're turning blue, because they cannot admit their faults, that two parallel lines never ever cross and make contact.  Then, no, I am not going to defer to them.  

 

 

Oh daniel .... I am not sure why I am bothering  with this ... esopecially since last time you where arguing with me about something , I presented , what I thought was an entirely reasonable  comment on why OI thought something  and you  ; " I am putting you on ignore ."

 

Well, I have 'come back from your ignoring '     to try and explain  THIS ONE for you  ( and NO I am not revisiting our earlier converse and sorting that one out ) ;

 

YOU where talking about a kitchen disposal unity .

 

old3bob made an analogy to a transformer in that  " out one side of the  transformer comes the named, on the other side is that which can not be named, "  OBVIOUSLY this is not one's normal electrical transformer   ... yeah ?   its an ANALOGY .

 

then for some reason you put up an image of a electrical transformer and say " in a transformer, the current on one side never makes contact with the other side. "   -  I dont see where old3bobs analogy says it does , and oif it did or didnt , that has nothing to do with the point me makes IN ANALOGY .

 

You seem to be only getting half of it .... that is ,  you dropped the  OGY and seemed steadfastly rooted in the ANAL .

 

old3bob tries to defray your tac ;  " electrical transformers workings can be used as an analogy for transformers of that which is more subtle than just electricity.  "

 

and goes on to clarify that , lijke in his anaology , there may be no physcial contact between the two sides , there is an EFFECT that passes over   :   "  common transformers used in AC circuits do have a current transfer through induction otherwise it wouldn't work."

 

But you cant accept being corrected or simply cannot follow the analogy as you could not keep the subject matter in context , instead of searching for some 'scientific  mistake'   that your intellect can correct - but even so old3bob is right  ... you go on and on , insisting there is no physical contact between them and old3bob keeps  referring to an effect .

 

and besides ... what does any of that have to do with  mats summary of the Bhagavad Gita  ???

 

Now,  put me back on ignore  (as I only seem to annoy you )   ... take a powder .... and get back on topic .

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, NaturaNaturans said:

What is the «not either one?» To live by photosynthesis? And what does mice eat btw? 

 

around here cats get fed out of tins  and hunt and kill the small  cute and cuddly endangered wildlife for the sheer bloodthirsty fun of it

 

obviously I am not a 'cat person ' 

 

( I mean , shit man , I got a tree  full of feather tailed gliders, outside my window at night ATM ... and neighbors that let their cats roam around ! 

 

The moral question might be  .... what am I gonna to to my neighbours if I start finding mangled and ripped open gliders on my lawn in the morning .

 

 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

....

the mice was stupid enough to be killed. so i dont do what the mice does

 

 

 

and those  'good people' in the Gita that got killed  ?   Where they 'stupid enough '  ?   or do we blame the cat ... I mean , the aggressor .

[Daniel]

35 minutes ago, Nungali said:

YOU where talking about a kitchen disposal unity

 

You would need to go one step further back, which is the concept of "direct" contact.  The point of bringing the disposal was not that it is iterally like that, but only to connect the this idea of "no direct contact" to a verse in scripture.  And this verse was brought as part of a conversation that was bringing scripture from various sources.  

 

35 minutes ago, Nungali said:

old3bob made an analogy to a transformer... 

 

... Interjecting into the conversation to argue that direct contact was possible similar to a transformer.  I said that doesn't work, there is no contact and in fact there are two completely distinct and seperate circuits.  And it's true.  Bob was literally arguing about connecting two parallel lines.  No, I'm not going to defer to that.

 

What should have happened is Bob should have acknowledged that the transformer wasn't a good analogy for direct contact, or adjusted his own postion to match the transformer as an indirect connection.  Or, there's a third option.  Bob could have answered the question I asked: "why iis this idea of directly connecting to God is so important?" and then we could have a discussion of that outside of the analogy, or if it's important for him that I agree, we could work together on developing an analogy that fits.

 

35 minutes ago, Nungali said:

what does any of that have to do with  mats summary of the Bhagavad Gita 

 

This question indicates you did not go back and read the the converstation I was having with the OP from the beginning.  We were having a spinoff discussion, per their choice.  It's their thread.   And this is yet another good reason not to judge other's conversations without listening to what they've said from start to finish.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Daniel

[Nungali]

Ohfer gawds sake ... thats the point old3bob WAS making ; no direct contact but still, an effect passes .  whether its god or black hole ... thats what he was saying

 

Its YOU that argues about  friggen kitchen disposal units , electrical transformers , puts up diagrams of them talks about their engineering principles

 

and bob NEVER argued about connecting two parallel lines YOU DID THAT  !

 

Itr was obvious he was talking about an effect passing over and between ... he NEVER said two parralell lines touched ... thats all you

 

and you cant see it ! 
 

 I bet you have similar issues with friends or family   ;  " For Chritss' sake Daniel ... you are doing 'it' again ! 

- I'm only saying that as its sooo obvious here , that it MUST be ingrained in your demenour   ...   or your demon er  ... not sure how to spell it ... you can look it up in your encyclopedia .