Everything is perfect?

[old3bob]

are some getting fatalistic? a little bit of will changes things a little bit, more will makes for more changes, complete unity of will can change everything...I not claiming that just echoing it.  Anyway changes must start with a little bit of will if one feels helpless and then progress bit by bit on that.  He who takes care of all the small things ends up taking of big things before they get big. (my paraphrase from The T.T.C.)

[Cobie]

8 hours ago, Unota said:

… My answer is a lot simpler than some of the others...

The simplicity of the extremely intelligent.  
 

 

[steve]

17 hours ago, Unota said:

I think, by everything is perfect, of course everything is as it should be, because there is nothing you could have done differently to improve it. Ultimately how you react to a situation is up to you. I think that perfection is everywhere if you look for it. My answer is a lot simpler than some of the others...sorry, haha.

 

IMO this is a profound and comprehensive teaching. 

_/\_

 

[old3bob]

Going by the math of karma everything is perfect or as it should be for a moment, a very short moment being that all things and energies are in constant flux and states of change which does not leave out relative reality or beings in time and space...so I think it safe to say things are constantly improving per evolution or going down per devolution and then probably going back again.  If one exercises no relative will along with hard gained degrees of wisdom then they will be thrown about like be a leaf in the wind, but if they do excise whatever degree of will and wisdom they have then they can hopefully anchor and center themselves for the better.  So profound sounding sayings like, "nothing else could have been done differently"  are full of holes imo.  Btw, beyond time and space is a different ball game.

Edited September 27, 2023 by old3bob

[Michael Sternbach]

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

Going by the math of karma everything is perfect or as it should be for a moment, a very short moment being that all things and energies are in constant flux and states of change which does not leave out relative reality or beings in time and space...so I think it safe to say things are constantly improving per evolution or going down per devolution and then probably going back again.  If one exercises no relative will along with hard gained degrees of wisdom then they will be thrown about like be a leaf in the wind, but if they do excise whatever degree of will and wisdom they have then they can hopefully anchor and center themselves for the better.  So profound sounding sayings like, "nothing else could have been done differently"  are full of holes imo.  Btw, beyond time and space is a different ball game.

 

Yes, in retrospect we may see that we could have dealt with this or that situation more wisely. However, what we tend to forget is that we had to develop that kind of wisdom first -- and that past situation we couldn't handle better may well have been part of that process.

 

While I am not one to deny the reality and power of free will, I feel it's adequate to say that, all in all, we did the best we could back then, given where and what we were. If in the meantime, we became more sophisticated in our insight and understanding, we deserve to give ourselves a pat on the back.

[old3bob]

23 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Yes, in retrospect we may see that we could have dealt with this or that situation more wisely. However, what we tend to forget is that we had to develop that kind of wisdom first -- and that past situation we couldn't handle better may well have been part of that process.

 

While I am not one to deny the reality and power of free will, I feel it's adequate to say that, all in all, we did the best we could back then, given where and what we were. If in the meantime, we became more sophisticated in our insight and understanding, we deserve to give ourselves a pat on the back.

 

I'd say ideally yes, but not ideally no, as in repeating mistakes without good or reasonable excuses...for instance industrial accidents that never should have happened but someone was careless even though they knew better.

[Michael Sternbach]

7 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

I'd say ideally yes, but not ideally no, as in repeating mistakes without good or reasonable excuses...for instance industrial accidents that never should have happened but someone was careless even though they knew better.

 

Well, I hate to break it to you, but humans make mistakes--and we actually tend to make the same mistakes again and again.

 

Why is this? Because our thoughts, feelings, and actions are determined by deeply ingrained patterns. You can attribute these to your upbringing, to your karmic backstory, to the astrological influences you were born under, and so on... Insights gained from each of the different models may be useful and, in some cases, sufficient to effect change, however, none of them is 'true' in an ultimate and exclusive sense. Rather, they pertain to different levels of patterning which all reflect each other.

 

All the while, with some part of yourself, you may be aware that there could be a better, more lightful way of viewing and doing things. And yet you feel trapped in the karmic shell that was created inside and outside yourself. 

 

Kudos to you if you manage to kindle that spark of higher understanding within yourself until you manage to break free from your former limitations eventually! In all likelihood, it won't be an easy process, let alone a linear one.

 

But hey... The way is the goal!

[Cobie]

2 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

… we deserve to give ourselves a pat on the back.

Exactly. I’m not going to slag off my old self with my new self. I remember the old self was well-intentioned. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Cobie

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Well, I hate to break it to you, but humans make mistakes--and we actually tend to make the same mistakes again and again.

 

Why is this? Because our thoughts, feelings, and actions are determined by deeply ingrained patterns. You can attribute these to your upbringing, to your karmic backstory, to the astrological influences you were born under, and so on... Insights gained from each of the different models may be useful and, in some cases, sufficient to effect change, however, none of them is 'true' in an ultimate and exclusive sense. Rather, they pertain to different levels of patterning which all reflect each other.

 

All the while, with some part of yourself, you may be aware that there could be a better, more lightful way of viewing and doing things. And yet you feel trapped in the karmic shell that was created inside and outside yourself. 

 

Kudos to you if you manage to kindle that spark of higher understanding within yourself until you manage to break free from your former limitations eventually! In all likelihood, it won't be an easy process, let alone a linear one.

 

But hey... The way is the goal!

 

none of that was news to me Michael,  Btw the word "you" was overused above as Mark might say...anyway fancy sounding or philosophical excuses that don't cut the mustard in this world or the others are not enough...

[Mark Foote]

On 9/26/2023 at 1:04 PM, old3bob said:

 

yew, oops that a wood of some type right?   Anyway we using we is more to our and us's likings, even if we are easy...granted we could be making assumptions if we use we.
 

Plural pronouns also no good!

[Mark Foote]

On 9/26/2023 at 5:10 PM, Unota said:

Sometimes I think back on if I should have made different choices, if it would have made me happier or put me into a better situation. I don't think it would have mattered in the end. Bad things could just as easily happened no matter what I had done, and with the mindset that I had been before this, I would have reacted to them just as badly. I would only be able to see the misfortune. A miserable person likes to be miserable.

 

But lately, whether it's good fortune or misfortune, I think I am losing the ability to tell the difference. Nothing about my life circumstances have changed at all! I still have little freedom, few friends, and not much of a family to rely on, not much spending money, which used to make me completely miserable. At one point I was even suicidal. I used to be so miserable, that I would be devastated over waking up in the morning at all.

 

But after realizing something that had been bothering me deeply for a long time, I feel like I have been able to enjoy smaller things. I get excited over things that are really stupid. Like, wow! I get to have cottage cheese for dinner! I love cottage cheese! Lucky!!

 

And recently, it finally occurred to me that I could work out and watch soap operas at the same time. I love exercising and soap operas! What do you mean I could have been doing both at the same time!? Really?! I felt blessed. I've been a lot happier lately because of stupid things like this.

 

I think, by everything is perfect, of course everything is as it should be... I think that perfection is everywhere if you look for it. My answer is a lot simpler than some of the others...sorry, haha.
 

I have simplified the simpler, for the sake of all concerned! 

[Mark Foote]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

Btw the word "you" was overused above as Mark might say...
 

i feex him up:

 

Quote

2 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

But hey... The way is the goal! 
 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Michael Sternbach]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

none of that was news to me Michael,  Btw the word "you" was overused above as Mark might say...

 

Mine own sinc'rest apologies if 't be true mine own thoughtlessness offend'd thee! i shalt hencef'rth avoideth this mod'rn naughty w'rd altogeth'r in our furth'r exchanges!

 

Quote

anyway fancy sounding or philosophical excuses that don't cut the mustard in this world or the others are not enough...

 

Bid me, what wouldst cutteth the mustard in thy esteem'd opinion? unf'rgiving (self-) accusations and harsh judgement p'rhaps?

Edited September 28, 2023 by Michael Sternbach

[Cobie]

 

8 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

Plural pronouns also no good!

Exactly. Sweeping statements attributing them to  ‘we’ .  Please exclude me from your ‘we’. Wee wee pee pee.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Cobie

[old3bob]

8 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Mine own sinc'rest apologies if 't be true mine own thoughtlessness offend'd thee! i shalt hencef'rth avoideth this mod'rn naughty w'rd altogeth'r in our furth'r exchanges!

 

Bid me, what wouldst cutteth the mustard in thy esteem'd opinion? unf'rgiving (self-) accusations and harsh judgement p'rhaps?

 

"And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us..."  so ok and to break the chains that bind us, which includes the idea of us not repeating the same problems over and over again with more and more karma and thus  learn from and admit our mistakes,  along with the question of how much rationalization or slack should I cut for myself and for our undeniable joint wee wee's, being that none of us are total islands.

[Dedicated]

I'd guess 'everything is perfect' as a misquote of gaining an appreciation of 'the isness of everything'. Probably more about a state of being than a statement that bad things are ok

[Michael Sternbach]

22 hours ago, old3bob said:

"And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us..."  so ok and to break the chains that bind us, which includes the idea of us not repeating the same problems over and over again with more and more karma and thus  learn from and admit our mistakes, 

 

Agreed, as far as it goes.

 

22 hours ago, old3bob said:

along with the question of how much rationalization or slack should I cut for myself and for our undeniable joint wee wee's, being that none of us are total islands.

 

Shortcomings are of two kinds: commission and omission. 

 

And then there are those past things we did or didn't do, which we aren't exactly proud of. Although we may have had the best of intentions. 

 

In either case, admitting and learning from mistakes is key (as you said). Beating ourselves up over them is not!

 

And to break free from destructive behaviour patterns sometimes requires taking baby steps. And this includes the guilt trap, which tends to paralyze us in our ability to be of servive to others and ourselves. 

[old3bob]

everything is perfect, even the stock market, 

[Mark Foote]

On 9/28/2023 at 2:47 AM, old3bob said:

 

"And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us..."  so ok and to break the chains that bind us, which includes the idea of us not repeating the same problems over and over again with more and more karma and thus  learn from and admit our mistakes,  along with the question of how much rationalization or slack should I cut for myself and for our undeniable joint wee wee's, being that none of us are total islands.
 

"And these few precepts in thy memory See thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue, Nor any unproportioned thought his act. Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar. Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried, Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel; But do not dull thy palm with entertainment Of each new-hatch’d, unfledged comrade. Beware Of entrance to a quarrel, but being in, Bear’t that the opposed may beware of thee. Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice; Take each man’s censure, but reserve thy judgment. Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, But not express’d in fancy; rich, not gaudy; For the apparel oft proclaims the man, And they in France of the best rank and station Are of a most select and generous chief in that. Neither a borrower nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend, And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry. This above all: to thine ownself be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man."

Poor Polonius--he needed some advice about staying out from behind curtains.

[old3bob]

unless something has changed or not changed since last week, "everything is perfect" (in Margaritaville)

Edited October 3, 2023 by old3bob

[Nungali]

Not necessarily  < he holds his glass up and examines it >  my one does not have a salted rim !