Stranger things

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Diabolus Ex Machina - by Amanda Guinzburg

 

The above is a transcript of a GPT conversation.  A writer asks GPT to read and offer advice about some essays, and GPT pretends to have read the pieces when it didn´t.  Very strange.

 

Well ..... it did learn how to communicate   from us  . 

[Taomeow]

21 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

      if I borrow  money  from myself ....  do I have debt  or have I become wealthy  ? 

 

 

 

Depends on what you borrow that money for...  I suppose it can go either way, or even both ways.  E.g. if I borrowed money from myself to invest in gold 30 years ago, it would have made me poor then but wealthy now.  Conversely, if I borrowed money from myself to invest in Enron 30 years ago, it would have made me wealthy then but poor now.   

 

Our situation is different though -- American government borrows money from American me the taxpayer but owes it to American them -- the Federal Reserve (20%), government trust funds (25%), private domestic investors (25% -- banks, mutual funds, insurance companies, etc..) to a total of 70% of the $33 trillion dollar debt owed to them, not to me.  The remaining 30% owed to foreign countries is obviously also not owed to me even though it's been taken from me.    

[Taomeow]

Double double post and trouble

Edited June 5 by Taomeow

[liminal_luke]

19 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Well ..... it did learn how to communicate   from us  . 

 

Good point.  Although in some ways the program behaves in a quite inhuman, or at least unBumlike, fashion.  When confronted about it´s duplicity, Chat GPT immediately confesses, says "there are no excuses," and promises to do better.  There´s no dodging.  

 

I often ask Gemini (Google´s free version of AI) for culinary advice and recipes.  It always seems happy to help out and disconcertingly enthusiastic about my kitchen plans.  My partner, on the other hand, is less keen on my cooking.

Edited June 5 by liminal_luke

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I don't know his work at all, but I've seen the structure of Time through ayahuasca-opened eyes.  The "present" was like an observation point from which I could look at Time in all directions, the easiest was looking down onto the past.  It was like a layered cake of winding rivers (or maybe of one river snaking this way and that way, its segments layered on top of each other), going all the way into deep infinity.  The layers were see-through, so I could look down at the recent past, further down at the past that was more remote, etc..  Rivers were not just loopy but some loops did indeed cause Time to flow backward.  I could focus on a particular section and "zoom in."  It also appeared that I could dive anywhere into that river from my observation point -- but it was as scary as jumping from the edge of a cliff into an abyss, so I didn't.  (I also didn't want to go UP but SHE dragged me there anyway and showed me the source of all that flow.  This source I should liken perhaps to a dripping sink or some plumbing piping underneath it -- Time we experience and everything in it was apparently a side effect of operations of that "sink," That World -- a very incomprehensible place where you couldn't tell biology from technology, a bit like one of those Borg cubes and a lot like one of those Mesoamerican bas reliefs.  SHE wanted to show and explain things to me but that place terrified me and I begged HER to get me outta there.)   

 

thanks for sharing the intense experience/vison Taomeow...on a side note its good to know that there are benevolent beings that can see right into our past like watching a movie and have us see it with them for understanding its effect on us!  As for the future that was shown as likely (and karmic) possibilities although not written in stone.

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

I'd be all for being sent back to the stone age -- provided my own age would be prenatal, or to be precise, pre-conception.  Once you're carried in the mother's womb and born and raised in the technology age, it's game over for the stone age adaptation purposes --

to the same, or greater, extent as being born and raised in the stone age is game over for your functionality in the technology age.

 

If I were to choose a reincarnation plan though, I would definitely have my intent set tens of thousands of years back.  I wonder if reincarnating back in time is possible.  (Don't see why not -- some folks even retain vague impressions of technology from their previous incarnations into times that are "future" to their present ones.  Some of those carriers of slightly under-erased memories of things-to-come become inventors and some write sci-fi, the rest just have strange dreams from time to time.  I sometimes get future tech dreams -- I even thought of trying to patent some of the things I saw, but I'm too tech lazy.  The ones I saw were very benign -- e.g. a far superior thingie as replacement for the cast they presently put on a broken limb, a large feather-weight umbrella that, when folded, can fit in your wallet...  stuff like that.) 

 

 

I did once .... for a moment .... it was  a rather wonderful moment . 

 

I was  staying at my teacher and friends camp  at Rocky River, he is a full blood Bunjalung Aboriginal elder and site guardian  (amongst other things ) . The camp is a blend of ancient and modern . All sorts of people go there for the experience , being a not too far journey from a major tourist coastal  town .  Some places are restricted access  , eg,   don't go up on the mountain   (hunting ) ,  down stream too far ( 'mission' ) or upstream  (sacred site ... shhh ...  'Grandma' sleeping  - keep out !  ) . 

 

I asked how far upstream I should go and where I should not go , I was told I could go up there as far as I want .  Wow , that's some trust .... well, not trust I suppose , I guess I was well 'sussed out '  .

 

I realized when I entered the area , braided rock streams with pools of fresh clear water  and river sand little beaches and various shrubs and bushes , and 'bonsai' by the floods , low growing and twisted and all in flower ... butterflies and  honey eater birds ... amazing .  But then I saw something unusual ahead amongst the low twisted trees ... a mass of driftwood . I got closer and realized it was a 'gunya'  a shelter . Someone had been living there for a while . Constructed out of  large piece of  Riverwood  fitted together with a branch and bark roof , remains of a fire , a few kangaroo  bones .... some spear heads  !  and  some half worked stone tools about .

 

Nothing there was modern ...  just me .  It was a step back in time .  I realized who had done it  and been living there ;  'Tooley' , whose 'nickname '   now made perfect sense . 

 

Some of these guys 'know all that '  ,  as  one of their major initiations is , after training of course , they go into the wilderness naked , with nothing, except their teaching  and survive there for a set time and then come back . 

 

What an adventure ..... in a nice  'good place'  and during a good season  ..... I have seen what it is like otherwise ... no thanks .  WAAAAAY too soft !  

 

Some adventures , they just will not take you on , especially out west , even with some that know them well and know they can survive a harsh journey and have experience with them and heave done it before ; 

 

Can I come ?   - Not this time .  -   Why ?  -    ( simply )  because you will die . 

 

Some seem supernaturally tough  ....  stories, even today about people stranded in a car somewhere  , no water , walk for 2 days to get to a settlement  , one was pregnant  !   They get there , re-hydrate   " I better lie down for a bit ... tired . "    

[Nungali]

< deleted >  

- double posting glitch -

Edited June 5 by Nungali

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I usually prefer to read novels that take place in contemporary times, but a story featuring a reincarnated version of Taomeow with "under-erased memories" set in the Paleolithic era?  I wouldn´t begin to guess even what genre such a work might belong in.  The literary possibilities boggle.

 

 

[Nungali]

25 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Good point.  Although in some ways the program behaves in a quite inhuman, or at least unBumlike, fashion.  When confronted about it´s duplicity, Chat GPT immediately confesses, says "there are no excuses," and promises to do better.  There´s no dodging.  

 

I often ask Gemini (Google´s free version of AI) for culinary advice and recipes.  It always seems happy to help out and disconcertingly enthusiastic about my kitchen plans.  My partner, on the other hand, is less keen on my cooking.

 

That's because AI cant taste it  

 

 

[Mark Foote]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I don't know his work at all, but I've seen the structure of Time through ayahuasca-opened eyes.  The "present" was like an observation point from which I could look at Time in all directions, the easiest was looking down onto the past.  It was like a layered cake of winding rivers (or maybe of one river snaking this way and that way, its segments layered on top of each other), going all the way into deep infinity.  The layers were see-through, so I could look down at the recent past, further down at the past that was more remote, etc..  Rivers were not just loopy but some loops did indeed cause Time to flow backward.  I could focus on a particular section and "zoom in."  It also appeared that I could dive anywhere into that river from my observation point -- but it was as scary as jumping from the edge of a cliff into an abyss, so I didn't.  (I also didn't want to go UP but SHE dragged me there anyway and showed me the source of all that flow.  This source I should liken perhaps to a dripping sink or some plumbing piping underneath it -- Time we experience and everything in it was apparently a side effect of operations of that "sink," That World -- a very incomprehensible place where you couldn't tell biology from technology, a bit like one of those Borg cubes and a lot like one of those Mesoamerican bas reliefs.  SHE wanted to show and explain things to me but that place terrified me and I begged HER to get me outta there.)   
 

THE MESOAMERICAN SACRUM BONE: DOORWAY TO THEOTHERWORLD

Brian Stross
The University of Texas at Austin
 

I wrote to Brian, that's here:  The Gospel of Mary and the Mesoamerican Sacrum Bone

He was kind enough to respond, and encourage me. A teacher, was Brian, passed away now.  He also had a paper on the Mexican/Central American three-legged stool, which I guess was something that was given to someone when they became an elder of the community.

Sort of like:

 

… Hsiang Lin said, “Sitting for a long time becomes toilsome.”  If you understand this way, you are “turning to the left, turning to the right, following up behind.”
 

(“The Blue Cliff Record”, Yuanwu, Case 17; tr. Cleary & Cleary, ed. Shambala, p 114)

 

 

The three-legged stool.

 

 

 

[Mark Foote]

59 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

thanks for sharing the intense experience/vison Taomeow...on a side note its good to know that there are benevolent beings that can see right into our past like watching a movie and have us see it with them for understanding its effect on us!  As for the future that was shown as likely (and karmic) possibilities although not written in stone.
 

THE MESOAMERICAN SACRUM BONE: DOORWAY TO THE
OTHERWORLD
Brian Stross
The University of Texas at Austin
 

 

I guess Dao Bums is having technical issues again. Half my post was lost, here. 

I wrote Brian, and he wrote back with encouragement, the mark of a great teacher as far as I'm concerned. My letter to Brian:
 

The Gospel of Mary and the Mesoamerican Sacrum Bone
 

He also has a paper on "the armadillo stool":

 

Seating and seats were important to the Classic Maya nobility, just as the short-legged stool is still an important item of household furniture for many modern day Maya and neighboring peoples. Identification of the stone armadillo as a ceremonial stool informs a brief discussion of forms and functions of the Mesoamerican seat in past and present times, and of the role of the armadillo in Mesoamerican thought.

 

(f No. 25, 2007 WAYEB NOTES ISSN 1379-8286 THE ARMADILLO STOOL)

Fascinating to look at the touch points on the figure in that carving, Taomeow, the sacrum being the primary one (and low on the sacrum, near the tail-bone). Also the ball of the foot, the knee, the base of the neck and points down the back. The nose. All about the thoracolumbar fascia, IMHO.

 

RIP, Brian Stross.

Edited June 6 by Mark Foote

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

That was such a silly movie.  But of course Raquel Welch was an inspiration.  I remember thinking she had nothing on me except for  that leather and fur bikini -- but I so envied that outfit!  (We had to wear uniforms in school...  brown dress, black apron, white apron for holidays.  A white collar and white cuffs to go with that dress -- you had to sew them on by hand, or rather baste so you could remove them easily enough because you had to change them often -- the ones that weren't pristinely white weren't tolerated.  Civilization is overrated.)   

 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

That was such a silly movie.  But of course Raquel Welch was an inspiration.  I remember thinking she had nothing on me except for  that leather and fur bikini -- but I so envied that outfit!  (We had to wear uniforms in school...  brown dress, black apron, white apron for holidays.  A white collar and white cuffs to go with that dress -- you had to sew them on by hand, or rather baste so you could remove them easily enough because you had to change them often -- the ones that weren't pristinely white weren't tolerated.  Civilization is overrated.)   

 

 

I remember thinking she had nothing on me  except for  that leather and fur bikini  ! 

 

 

I think I would pay good money to see ' Taomeow 1 Million BC '   with you in that outfit  ( made of fur and lace leather , of course )   battling dinosaurs , going to school in a cave ....  although neither dinosaurs nor humans were around  1 Million ya.      

[liminal_luke]

Pride is the Wrong Word

 

I´m a gay white man.  What would happen if I say that I´m proud to be white?  My fellow Bums would likely get a lot of use out of the new "oh boy" emoji.  I might be banned from the board for being racist -- and rightfully so, I think.  What would happen if I say that I´m proud to be gay?  On the whole, I´d wager the reaction would be a lot more positive.  And yet being attracted to other men is not like winning the national tennis championships -- it´s not a soaring personal accomplishment.  I didn´t train hard daily, sweating through grueling workouts, in order to think that Brad Pitt is hot.  

 

This is why I think Gay Pride is misnamed.  Nobody should be proud -- or ashamed -- of their sexual orientation.  It´s not a hierarchy thing; there´s no better or worse.  Just like it´s not better or worse to be white or brown or black.  Pride isn´t the right word.  I´m not sure the right word exists in the English language.  There´s a subtle feeling of self-affirmation all people have access to when they do the hard personal work of making friends  with themselves, a feeling of basic OKness that is not dependent on anybody else giving a thumbs up.  It´s this subtle feeling of self-affirmation I hope all of us feel this June, whether we march in a Pride march or not.  If you feel it, whew -- well that´s something to be proud of.

Edited Sunday at 10:46 PM by liminal_luke

[Nungali]

What can I say when I cant say it  .  I'll have to be cryptic . In the 'old days' before a current affairs section and when we discussed all sorts of things , people started getting shocked   about what was 'going on ' .  

 

And I would be ' you ain't seen nothing yet ' . It would escalate and I would  say it again . 

 

So now all I can say is;  now you gonna see something !  .  

 

 

 

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Pride is the Wrong Word

 

I´m a gay white man.  What would happen if I say that I´m proud to be white?  My fellow Bums would likely get a lot of use out of the new "oh boy" emoji.  I might be banned from the board for being racist -- and rightfully so, I think.  What would happen if I say that I´m proud to be gay?  On the whole, I´d wager the reaction would be a lot more positive.  And yet being attracted to other men is not like winning the national tennis championships -- it´s not a soaring personal accomplishment.  I didn´t train hard daily, sweating through grueling workouts, in order to think that Brad Pitt is hot.  

 

This is why I think Gay Pride is misnamed.  Nobody should be proud -- or ashamed -- of their sexual orientation.  It´s not a hierarchy thing; there´s no better or worse.  Just like it´s not better or worse to be white or brown or black.  Pride isn´t the right word.  I´m not sure the right word exists in the English language.  There´s a subtle feeling of self-affirmation all people have access to when they do the hard personal work of making friends  with themselves, a feeling of basic OKness that is not dependent on anybody else giving a thumbs up.  It´s this subtle feeling of self-affirmation I hope all of us feel this June, whether we march in a Pride march or not.  If you feel it, whew -- well that´s something to be proud of.

 

You are, first and foremost, a smart man.  Consequences may occasionally pan out to be -- what's the word I'm looking for -- severe?  alienating? politically incorrect? 

 

I used to have a roommate and friend who was a gay white man.  He was not proud of being either, but it so happened that I helped him accomplish something he became so proud of that he kept bragging to everybody every chance he got, even though for everybody else it wasn't an accomplishment at all...  He came from a wealthy family and grew up in a community completely shielded from the rest of the world, and all he knew about swimming was always done in swimming-pools, by everybody he knew.  (He was alienated from his family at the time I made his acquaintance.)  So we went to the beach and I gave it all I had to convince him that the ocean was, well, swimmable.  He doubted it.  Waves.  No boundaries.  Sand, wind, all that weird stuff you don't encounter in a swimming-pool.  I shamed him into trying, and he discovered he liked it so much that I had a hard time getting him to finally get out of the water.  He was happier than I'd ever seen him.  So he proceeded to brag to everybody he knew and even to strangers, just mentioning nonchalantly something along the lines of, "how was your weekend? Me, I went swimming in the ocean..."  

[liminal_luke]

15 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

You are, first and foremost, a smart man.  Consequences may occasionally pan out to be -- what's the word I'm looking for -- severe?  alienating? politically incorrect? 

 

I used to have a roommate and friend who was a gay white man.  He was not proud of being either, but it so happened that I helped him accomplish something he became so proud of that he kept bragging to everybody every chance he got, even though for everybody else it wasn't an accomplishment at all...  He came from a wealthy family and grew up in a community completely shielded from the rest of the world, and all he knew about swimming was always done in swimming-pools, by everybody he knew.  (He was alienated from his family at the time I made his acquaintance.)  So we went to the beach and I gave it all I had to convince him that the ocean was, well, swimmable.  He doubted it.  Waves.  No boundaries.  Sand, wind, all that weird stuff you don't encounter in a swimming-pool.  I shamed him into trying, and he discovered he liked it so much that I had a hard time getting him to finally get out of the water.  He was happier than I'd ever seen him.  So he proceeded to brag to everybody he knew and even to strangers, just mentioning nonchalantly something along the lines of, "how was your weekend? Me, I went swimming in the ocean..."  

 

Your friend sounds great.  How wonderful that you were able to teach him and he was open to being taught.  Yeah! 

[Sanity Check]

 

Females can have some real muscles.

 

Boom.

[old3bob]

10 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Females can have some real muscles.

Boom.

 

yea but does she know how to swim in the ocean?   I remember being on the swim team in high school and at one meet there was a weight lifter on the opponents team, he looked impressive but was a very poor swimmer!  (if folks have noticed good competitive swimmers have a different kind of build and muscle usage)

[old3bob]

On 6/8/2025 at 6:18 PM, Taomeow said:

 

You are, first and foremost, a smart man.  Consequences may occasionally pan out to be -- what's the word I'm looking for -- severe?  alienating? politically incorrect? 

 

I used to have a roommate and friend who was a gay white man.  He was not proud of being either, but it so happened that I helped him accomplish something he became so proud of that he kept bragging to everybody every chance he got, even though for everybody else it wasn't an accomplishment at all...  He came from a wealthy family and grew up in a community completely shielded from the rest of the world, and all he knew about swimming was always done in swimming-pools, by everybody he knew.  (He was alienated from his family at the time I made his acquaintance.)  So we went to the beach and I gave it all I had to convince him that the ocean was, well, swimmable.  He doubted it.  Waves.  No boundaries.  Sand, wind, all that weird stuff you don't encounter in a swimming-pool.  I shamed him into trying, and he discovered he liked it so much that I had a hard time getting him to finally get out of the water.  He was happier than I'd ever seen him.  So he proceeded to brag to everybody he knew and even to strangers, just mentioning nonchalantly something along the lines of, "how was your weekend? Me, I went swimming in the ocean..."  

 

so it sounds like you didn't have to use water safety rescue methods on him, something I've had to use on an over confident ocean swimmer to prevent his drowning.... 

[Nungali]

On 6/10/2025 at 4:34 PM, Sanity Check said:

 

Females can have some real muscles.

 

Boom.

 

I don't find that strange 

 

What I do find strange is the 'unreality '  of  the muscles of some  female body builders   !   and in that case ... the men too !  

 

 

 

I don't think Valdir here will be taking an office job with suit and  TIE  anytime soon .   

 

 

[Nungali]

On 6/11/2025 at 3:13 AM, old3bob said:

 

yea but does she know how to swim in the ocean?   I remember being on the swim team in high school and at one meet there was a weight lifter on the opponents team, he looked impressive but was a very poor swimmer!  (if folks have noticed good competitive swimmers have a different kind of build and muscle usage)

 

I  was with a human woman dolphin once  ... man could SHE swim !   Okay she had really Looooong  foot fins, but still .  And the free breath depth !   It was on a manta boat in WA . Her job was  , when the spotter planes radioed in manta ray location, the boat would go nearby , she  would go in , swim to them and hand signal for us to go in and swim over .  They stay in one spot for a bit then take off and go somewhere else .   When that happens she signals again differently and  one returns to the boat , the mantas take off and she follows them  .... keeping up  .....  then when they stop again she signals , boat goes to nearby and we get another go with them . 

 

No bulky muscles on her ... muscles alright but sleek and stream lined and powerful ,,, her leg muscles were shaped  like dolphin ] .... I suspect she was part dolphin as well .  I never seen anyone swim as fast as that and for as long . 

 

But can she do a bench press  with 300lbs ?   

 

Who cares  !      

[old3bob]

here is another:

 

"Nyad tells the story of Diana Nyad, a marathon swimmer who broke records and achieved a number of firsts in the sport. At the age of 60, she decided to complete the feat she wasn’t able to when she was 28—swim the more than 100 miles from Cuba to Florida without the aid of a shark cage, powered only by her stubborn will and swimming prowess.

The Cuba to Florida crossing, through the Florida Straits, has long held a mystique for marathon swimmers for its challenging conditions. Unlike the English Channel, where the water temperature averages about 62F, the Florida waters are warmer, in the 80F range, but that also means they are home to dangerous marine life—most notably sharks and box jellyfish, whose stings can transfer enough toxin to paralyze and even kill a person. The Gulf Stream also makes the currents quixotic, so if a swimmer isn't guided by a seasoned navigator, she could find herself pushed off course into the Gulf of Mexico or toward the Bahamas. A few people had attempted it, but only with shark cages, including Nyad during that first try in her 20s...."

https://time.com/6330894/nyad-movie-true-story-netflix/

[Nungali]

Thats NUTTHIN  ! 

 

Meet Pat Mullins !   Aussie 'rolling' champion !    (or for a quick look go to  8:50  - prevention of dog attacks ) 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 10:39 PM by Nungali

[Nungali]

And now .... using AI as your guru / spiritual teacher / initiator .   

 

Its already started ... even here on DBs !  

 

So I Google questioned ; " Can AI initiate ? "  Now  with most Google results nowadays you get an AI summary at the top of the page 

 

eg " Whats the most expensive food ?"

 

AI Overview

 

The most expensive food, generally considered to be Almas Caviar, can cost up to $25,000 per kilogram. This rare delicacy is produced by albino sturgeon, only found in the Caspian Sea, and is sold in 24-karat gold tins. Other incredibly expensive foods include Kobe beef, White truffles, and Saffron. 

 

The page opened to my question , an 'AI Overview ' appeared  for an instant , the screen winked and the page appeared without any AI Over view   

 

 

 

So I tried again .... 2 more times . Same thing .    I tried various combinations  of ' ritually initiate' , 'magically initiate ' ,  etc .   Now there is no  flicker of AI  Overview , just entries about 'AI initiating things  ' ... can AI initiate anything itself without input from us ?  Can it talk to itself without us asking a question ? ( Not simple 'Hello' or 'how are you ' - complex things ) . 

 

Not many know how the beast works ... one hint is 'what you get out depends on what you put in '.  And I know  that a  LOT of people seem to have trouble accurately forming a question about exactly what it is they are asking about .

 

So I looked at a converse  (its going around )  between two 'AIs' ;

 

" 

Bob: i can i i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Alice: balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to

Bob: you i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have a ball to me to me to me to me to me to me to me

Bob: i i can i i i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have a ball to me to me to me to me to me to me to me

Bob: i . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to

Bob: you i i i i i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have 0 to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to

Bob: you i i i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to   * 

 

I cant wait until the ' AI scripture' comes out  !