The Grades of Initiation

[Nungali]

I'm nearly on the verge of hoping HD will come back !!!

 

[helpfuldemon]

I don't think I'll be posting much anymore.  I finished my contemplation of Chaos to Order and expanded the Universe.  I am selling my occult books, as I have little use for them now.  I never was able to conjure Demons or Gods or Angels.  I'm mostly a philosopher that fell into the Abyss.  In reading Herbert Spencer's book "First Principles", I realize I was travelling astrally, and had a quest to fulfill, which has now been completed.  I'm no longer afflicted, and I can rest.

[Daniel]

7 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I don't think I'll be posting much anymore.  I finished my contemplation of Chaos to Order and expanded the Universe. 

 

Thank you for spending time here.  I remember when I first read your posts several years ago.  It's been a wild ride, and I've learned a lot.

 

7 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I'm no longer afflicted, and I can rest.

 

It's great news.  I'm happy to hear to that.  Shalom.

[Nungali]

15 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I don't think I'll be posting much anymore.  I finished my contemplation of Chaos to Order and expanded the Universe.  I am selling my occult books, as I have little use for them now.  I never was able to conjure Demons or Gods or Angels.  I'm mostly a philosopher that fell into the Abyss.  In reading Herbert Spencer's book "First Principles", I realize I was traveling astrally, and had a quest to fulfill, which has now been completed.  I'm no longer afflicted, and I can rest.

 

How can I resist then to add this ..... 

 

You're  welcome .

 

 

That is  .... the exorcist rarely gets thanks .

 

 

I am listing this as my  3rd  demonstration on Daobums .

 

Spoiler

In case you are new here or have not been following ;

 

1 .  Way back  during the Trump insanity that got into this site ;  me ; right ! I am sick of this shit , gonna do a ritual blast you outa the water . ( Its documented in this esoteric section) .   Then the owner went ballistic and cleared out ... or asked them to clear out  .  I call that 'the purge ' .

 

2.  A further Trump freak out here  about what was going on  and my prediction about the  tip of the ice berg and how ;'you aint seen nothin yet ! '   - then the attempted insurrection of the USA ! ... I mean W O W !  - I call that 'the prediction ' .

 

3.  This one .    I am calling it, of course ,  the exorcism . 

 

Now also, of course, I know           full well all of that is just a 'coincidence'   ... as I will be told .

 

 

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

On 14.9.2023 at 4:25 PM, Daniel said:

 

I distiguish between 'zero' the number and 'null' the concept.  when people speak about 'zero' philosophically, it seems that they are actually talking about 'null' not 'zero', but the two get conflated.  'zero' in my opinion is an object, 'null' is an action.  'null' is something that is happening.  

 

Also, when I consider infinity, it's +/- infinity ( ±∞ ).  I include the negations (was, wasn't, is, isn't, will-be, won't, could-be).Technically, in mathematics, ∞ = ±∞. The ± is implied in the symbolism.  This puts 0, if it were to be included in ∞ in the center, not at the extreme.  It lives in the center of the number-line, doing nothing, contributing nothing, passive.  Absolutley meaningless and without purpose. 

 

Instead of placing 0 on the one-dimensional number-line, try setting it at the centre of a series of concentric circles or of a spiral carrying either all positive integers or all negative integers. This should help you visualise all numbers emanating from the central zero to infinity in the first case, and converging towards it from infinity in the second case.

 

This kind of model shows that, in either case, 0 and infinity can indeed be seen as two opposite poles.

 

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But!  That is not what people are speaking about when 'zero', 'emptiness' 'nothingness' is discussed philosophically.  The 'zero' that is being contemplated and considered is active.  a resource, pool of nothingness, so to speak.  like a great heavenly body of water, the 'firmament' for lack of better word.  it's not a boring numeric 'zero' living in the middle of the number line.

 

To me, numbers as understood in the numeric system are anything but boring, but come with all the archetypal attributes that numerology ascribes to them. In other words, those attributes translate directly to their behaviour as mathematical objects.

 

I do believe that this kind of understanding is evident not least (LOL) in the way "shunya" means zero, whereas "shunyata" means "void" in the philosophical sense in ancient Sanskrit texts. 

 

You said yourself that "mathematics is philosophy" in another thread. I agree with that--these two fields of knowledge are, well, let's say, non-dual. 😁

 

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regarding being disconnected, I prefer the word disjointed, never coinciding.  'null' is the action of removal, like subtraction, like vaccuum.  the operation, not the operator.  it's energetic.

 

Here's a diagram of how I envision 'null' which is often spoken of as 'zero', a source for manifestation.  But I'm trying to illutrate that it's active.  Energetic.  The green arrows are "nullifying".  It just keeps nullifying, forever and ever and always.

 

 

Hmm. What kind of numbers does each of these two sets contain? Do they nullify each other?

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Instead of placing 0 on the one-dimensional number-line, try setting it at the centre of a series of concentric circles or of a spiral carrying either all positive integers or all negative integers. This should help you visualise all numbers emanating from the central zero to infinity in the first case, and converging towards it from infinity in the second case.

 

This kind of model shows that, in either case, 0 and infinity can indeed be seen as two opposite poles.

 

We're basically envisioning the same thing.  The point at the center, from my perspective is 1.  And all the other numbers, including 0 are produced from it.  And from this perceptive yes, there is a beautiful symmetry and coincidence ( literally co-incide, a fun paradox ) of 1 and the infinite.  The infinite is 1.

 

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To me, numbers as understood in the numeric system are anything but boring, but come with all the archetypal attributes that numerology ascribes to them. In other words, those attributes translate directly to their behaviour as mathematical objects.

 

Just 0 is boring.  Just that specific number.  Although here in America there was a fun kids song made about zero in the early 70s, "Zero is my Hero..."

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

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I do believe that this kind of understanding is evident not least (LOL) in the way "shunya" means zero, whereas "shunyata" means "void" in the philosophical sense in ancient Sanskrit texts. 

 

Facinating, I did not know that.

 

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Hmm. What kind of numbers does each of these two sets contain? Do they nullify each other?

 

No.  They're sets.  The only way for them to nullify each other is if they share something in common.  These two are disjoint, which means they share nothing in common.

 

Which is kind of a fun linguistic trick, word-play.

 

"they share nothing in common"

 

Or

 

"they share "nothing" in common."

 

If they share "nothing" in common, and nothing is actually something, then they actually share something in common which happens to be be "nothing".

 

So, what about "nothing", does it share anything in common with itself?  Of course!  It's has "nothing" in common with itself.

 

So, is it disjointed from itself?  Yes! defintely.  But its concordance is deviation.  In this special edge case, the extreme rare example, everything flips.  Being disjointed describes absolute perfect simultaneous correspondence with itself, where-as, all other examples of disjoint are the opposite: absolute perfect simultaneous differences.

 

Now it's possible to consider the "principle of explosion", and perhaps the reason why so many occultists seeking apotheosis are fixated on "zero" and emptiness.  Meditating on it... "From falsehood... anything".  Does it actually work?  Not really. But it's wonderful for all sorts of things, particularly opening the mind.  Also relief of suffering.  But as I've said, it can cause unwanted side-effects for some.  Especially those with a history of trauma, or who are attempting it solo.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Daniel

[helpfuldemon]

I entered into the Abyss to find out why there isn't enough love here. I realize now that there is plenty of attempts at bringing about love, from Art and Religion, but that the common duties of day to day, as well as the struggle to protect our homes and raise children, who draw our concern, and educating ourselves and working, keeps us from love, but I think, mostly, we commit to our loves and do well enough, though socially, we could always do more.

I also entered thinking I could bring Order to Chaos, and this is done by designing methods of behavior that all people can agree with, and there are many systems and Laws in place to do that. We are mostly succeeding, with some misses along the way.

I also entered to prove God, and as far as that goes, the only Gods we know are the Human ones, and the imagined, perfect ones, but that the real God is hidden, probably so we seek to make a perfect reality, and a perfect God. Hidden too, because we may not agree with that Gods works.

[helpfuldemon]

When a person gets initiated, they become aware that they are being watched, but they don't know by who, or what they want, or what they believe.  The only recourse is to examine the available knowledge and decide that this is that.  We adopt a God, or else you simply decide it is one of your own, should you resist doing research.

[Daniel]

51 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

When a person gets initiated, they become aware that they are being watched, but they don't know by who, or what they want, or what they believe.  The only recourse is to examine the available knowledge and decide that this is that.  We adopt a God, or else you simply decide it is one of your own, should you resist doing research.

 

There's that famous Nietzsche quote reverberating in my brain-places again...

 

The abyss?  Being watched?  Jung would say the one who enters the abyss, is also part-abyss-themself, and they are actually watching themself?

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Daniel

[helpfuldemon]

Yes.  You program the Demons with what you know.

[Daniel]

23 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

Yes.  You program the Demons with what you know.

 

"... with what I know. " How true.  How bittersweet.  Inner-demons.  Yeah.  I've got a few.  

 

...I have spent nights with matches and knives,

Leaning over ledges, only two flights up.

Cutting my heart, burning my soul.

Nothing left to hold,

Nothing left but, blood and fire...

 

...I am intense, I am in need,
I am in pain, I am in love.
I feel forsaken..  

Blood and Fire
Are too much for these restless arms to hold.
And my nights of desire are calling me,
Back to your fold.
And I am calling you, calling you from 10, 000 miles away
Won't you wet my fire with your love, babe?

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Daniel

[helpfuldemon]

7 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

When a person gets initiated, they become aware that they are being watched, but they don't know by who, or what they want, or what they believe.  The only recourse is to examine the available knowledge and decide that this is that.  We adopt a God, or else you simply decide it is one of your own, should you resist doing research.

 I AM A FREE MAN!

Edited September 22, 2023 by helpfuldemon

[helpfuldemon]

Humans are most like flowers.  Beautiful to watch mature and grow, glowing with color for a short time, and then, decay and death.

[helpfuldemon]

I have been trying to write out a philosophy, or book of fiction, to unite the world. I went to a used bookstore today, and realized again, that this is no longer the Age of Unity, but the Age of the Individual. We are now forever divided by opinion and process, and fault and flaw. We are a multiplicity of method and analysis, and our perspectives will now forever be separated. This will only expand and continue as we develop more understanding of different and unique ideas and methods. It is going to become more difficult to agree, and it will be more Chaos than Order.

[helpfuldemon]

Everything is.

[helpfuldemon]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:33 AM, Lairg said:

 

I had rather hoped that the higher will had some function in the cosmos.

 

For example, is it useful to intend that Earth humanity becomes enlightened?  

The Will is the intent of the Magician to contact Divine forces.  It is also the intent in life, to go about doing one's Will.  

 

It is useful to intend that Humanity become enlightened, should you want to be an initiate.

[helpfuldemon]

On 8/30/2022 at 5:24 PM, thelerner said:

Maybe it's my low level, but I feel if you want to help others, help them, but sending warm feelings and wishes out into the universe imo (or level) doesn't do much.  Though might improve one's own mood. 

 

That is a good start, for contacting the Divine requires a refined sense of compassion. And yes, it brightens your perspective and Spirit.

[helpfuldemon]

On 8/30/2022 at 6:43 PM, Lairg said:

It is said that our god is currently a god of love - having been a god of intelligence before the solar systemic pralaya.

 

And after the next pralaya our god will aspire to be a god of will.

 

It may be that practising right relationships is our best contribution to this phase of the solar system 

One must master the lessons of Love before one can lead with Will.

[helpfuldemon]

On 8/31/2022 at 7:59 PM, Lairg said:

 

I doubt that - unless Reality changes too.

 

Perhaps the flow that generates enlightenment is from a higher plane.     Thus there is in-lightenment as inflow of light generates a new functionality in the human mind - the first of a series of upgrades to mental function

 

 

I think that all people have their own sense of enlightenment.  We all understand what we believe and what we choose, more or less.  That doesn't mean that they are in control of their reactions to outer stimuli.  We are enlightened in what we want and how we perceive, but we are ignorant to how another person perceives, and what their intentions are.  This is a difficult thing to accomplish.  I suggest getting a marker board and brainstorming simple, primary ideas that correlate with Will, Want, and Action.  Figure out what motivates a person in their attempt at engaging with you.  Discover the motives available, and what the outcome of it might be.  You will find that there isn't that wide a variety of choices when it comes to what people want and how to get it done.  After you do this, then refine your approach to others so as to understand that everything is essentially contractual, and when you approach a person or idea, you are making a commitment to discovering and creating what you desire.  Then too, you will understand the approach and intent of others, and be able to assess whether you should invest time into experiencing something with them, or if they are simple wanderers.

[helpfuldemon]

On 9/1/2022 at 9:05 PM, Lairg said:

 

Things die. 

 

Does awareness die also?  How will you test the proposition?

 

 

I can only give you what I have witnessed, which is, that certain individuals exist in body in other worlds, and that consciousness can transcend the body, and exist in a primal state, like a small gem, in which one exists and is aware of its surroundings.  There are also Heavens, which are not of the Nature of Free Will:  we are subject to experience without freedom to choose, essentially at the mercy of our understanding and desire that we carried from this life.  It is best examined by Tartarus and the Elisian Feilds.  I have not seen a Hell, nor have I seen a Purgatory, where we work out our ignorance.  

[helpfuldemon]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:14 AM, helpfuldemon said:

The final magickal act of the Adept Exempt is to overcome their addiction to sorrow, for this is a path of suffering, and sorrow gives the comfort of validating what they see and have experienced.  But sorrow is not the state that is enlightened, for life is not just sorrow, and the point of entering the Abyss was for Wisdom to lead us to a better world, and a world of sorrow is not better.  

 

This is not to say that the Adept fails to see suffering any longer, but it should not block out the Adepts ability to see joy, and to know love.

Once the initiate has transcended the Abyss, they are able to accept that sorrow and joy are part of the experience and are prepared to meet and enjoy and learn from them.  Enlightenment of this Nature is peace with life, and all its varied pleasures and problems.

[helpfuldemon]

On 9/1/2022 at 6:25 PM, Lairg said:

 

I think that might be morality rather than the underlying Reality of Existence

 

On which plane does Reality exist?

Reality exists on all planes, only that some have Free Will, like this one, and others do not.

[helpfuldemon]

On 9/2/2022 at 7:23 PM, Nungali said:

 

Naaah ...because not everything  that exists is alive .  Something has to be alive before it can die .

 

Not to be too bitchy at ya HD  but such obvious faulty logic will / is   going to get you into deep  mental poo poo if you apply t to other areas of your 'figgurin out '  .

 

Like ;  going around depressed becasue you 'realised'    'everything dies'   .... when it doesn't .

Well, it is a Hermetic Maxim that nothing can be destroyed.  I have witnessed that my consciousness can be altered depending on the opinion of the one that is in possession of it, therefore, I may not die, but the "I" that I consider myself to be, might.

[helpfuldemon]

On 9/3/2022 at 5:06 PM, Lairg said:

 

To be a bit more specific, having healed the heart of its pain, the adept focuses upon the management of higher will (atma).

 

The adept having just been accepted into a higher level of cosmic brotherhood has many relationships to develop before being too free with the use of atma.  Indeed atma is seen as a dense reflection of the Intent of greater beings

I think the best method of understanding Will is found in the symbol of the Tree of Life.  The key component of Will is the application of power and love, and observing the beauty of the understanding of the Wisdom that comes from this combination.  Atma is too singular; a Human Being is a full-bodied persona of understanding and action, as conceived of through meditation, contemplation, and experimentation.  When one finishes their journey through the Abyss, all Will, intent and action are in line with Wisdom and Understanding.

[helpfuldemon]

On 9/3/2022 at 5:07 PM, helpfuldemon said:

My quest was about Love.  I wanted to bring Love to the world.  I thought God was the God of Love.  Then I thought I was part of an Order; that all of life was Order.  Then, just after thinking that, I realized "It's all Chaos", and that is when I entered the portal grade.

 

Now, as I sit here in my thoughts, I accept that, while there are rules and regulations that we impose, the truth about humanity is Chaos;  there is only action and consequence, and these things cannot be predicted.  There is no Law that governs us, all Gods are false.  There is only Chaos, and what we choose to believe (though our beliefs don't protect us).

This is not necessarily True.  All Gods are real, but they aren't absolute in Wisdom and Power.  It is most definitely Chaos, until all people agree to live according to the same WIll and Laws and actions, which will never happen.