nems

My parents make me sick

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I feel like the stress from my parents is slowly shortening my life more and more. Two years ago when the pandemic started I "ran away" from them to live with my boyfriend. Since then we've bought a house, got engaged and I'm feeling so much better than I have in my entire life. Initially I didn't talk to them often or see them, but I felt it was somehow morally wrong? I know a lot of the reason I don't cut ties is that they raised me to be sort of an emotional outlet for themselves and I feel a lot of guilt for not giving them what they want, but I also feel like they don't even know any better.

 

To give context, I grew up in a really small town in the middle of nowhere. My school was ranked one of the worst in my state (bottom five percent) when factoring in mental illness, self harm, drug use, grades, academic achievement, etc. It's rampant with heroin... to the point where most males in my grade didn't have mothers by the time they were 18. Everyone in my community was very republican (at least in voting) I wouldn't say conservative because no one was very traditional in their views or actions. I constantly begged them to move as I got older because I could see that this was not how every community was. It was so unhealthy, unsafe and terrifying. We absolutely had the means to move and they always complained about the town but yet wouldn't move. I never understood why until a few years ago. 

 

My parents are ''liberal'' and it's like they live there solely to judge those around them to feel better about themselves. I don't mean to bring up politics nor do I want to discuss it, but it does factor into A LOT if not all of their actions. Their political allegiance is their entire identity. All they do is talk about people behind their backs and judge and parrot quotes they see on facebook to support their views. I had NO idea how much that behavior messed with me growing up. I struggled with eating disorders all the time and I developed severe body dysphoria. There are so many situations where I've desperately needed them to protect me or help me and I received none. Though, my mom still guilts me for having to drive me to therapy as a teen (stopped going because she made me feel like a burden) or to doctor's appointments and meeting my basic needs or buying me toys. They were severely neglected growing up, so whenever I needed to talk to them or tried to express my feelings it became a comparison. 

 

      Their entire lives are spent on Facebook and I've noticed since they first gotten it they've only become more unbearable to be around. It feeds all of their narcissistic tendencies and worsens all of their biases AND gives them easy access to people's lives in order to judge them. They portray themselves as "liberals" to seem like they are better than everyone. Everyone else is undereducated and bigoted while they are the most intelligent people they know. They are chronically "surrounded by idiots" and it somehow gives them solace instead of making them want to be with like minded people. Whatever they see on the news they will talk about non stop and mold their stance to whatever they're told without really thinking about it or looking into it more. As a teenager I would study world events in accordance to their political beliefs because I wanted to have something to talk about with my dad so badly... But if I said one wrong thing he would scream at me and berate me until he was red in the face and I was a sobbing mess. I understand now that a lot of that stuff solely exists to enhance people's biases and divide them against their neighbors, but they still don't and they've fallen so deep into this pit of narcissism and self serving opinions that I feel like I can't have a relationship with them anymore. It's less terrible when I'm alone with one of them having one on one conversations, but they always talk about each other behind their backs and always have. It doesn't feel good to me at all.

 

I am 21. My mom is 66 and my dad just turned 75. My mom didn't believe she could still get pregnant when they conceived me.  It feels like I was a mistake that they never cared to raise. My grandma lived next door and raised me more than I ever realized. Almost of my childhood memories are with her. She was the one I called mom. I love her more than anything, but a few years ago she passed away and I realized how alone I was. It's been really painful coming to this point. Every time I see them I notice the stress in my body. It's gotten to a point where it physically hurts to be near them and when I leave I have to spend the evening trying to let go of all the awful things they think and say. All the jabs at me they take that irritate me but are passive aggressive to the point they're not even worth fighting against. All the nasty things they tell me about the kids I went to school with. All the jokes about people's weight, appearance, social status, etc. They genuinely take delight in the misfortunes of others and think I will too, but it's breaking my heart.

 

   After re reading all of this and thinking about it, I feel like I actually really really hate them. I don't like it at all. I know when they die I will be so relieved and it disgusts me. The guilt dissolves when I feel this way, but in a few hours it will come back and I will feel like I need to be there for them again. It feels like an actual poison, and I can't compare it to anything else. It's actually begun making me feel physically ill the longer I'm around them. This post ended up a lot longer than I initially thought, and there is still more. I'm just not sure what to do at this point. I feel like I'm leaving them to die alone, and no one deserves that, but I also don't think I need to suffer like this anymore. Has anyone else been through something similar? Did you have techniques to release the stress or did you just cut them out entirely? I've attempted talking to them about their facebook use by asking them introspective questions but it seems like they genuinely lack the ability to question and form their own beliefs or like... understand their actions and choices in general... It terrifies me that people can be this way, let alone it being my parents.

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Time to cut the cord !  - trepidation precedes  freedom in this matter , so look to the future .

 

Of course , many families are healthy ... this is about 'that other type' of situation ;

 

 

 

"  Cara Soror,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

In your last letter you mention “family pressure.”  Horrid word, family!  Its very etymology accuses it of servility and stagnation.

Latin, famulus, a servant; Oscan, Faamat, he dwells.

It almost deserves the treatment it gets in that disreputable near-Limerick:

Three was a young lady named Emily
Who was not understood by her femily,
          She acted so rummily,
          The head of the fummily,
Had her matched with a greyhound from Wem-b-iley.

They feared she would breed a facsimile—
Bring utter disgrace on the fimilly,
          So the head of the fommily,
          Read her a homily—
And the devil flew out of the Chim-b-illy!

A word ought to have more respect for itself!

Then, think what horrid images it evokes from the mind.  Not only Victorian; wherever the family has been strong, it has always been an engine of tyranny.  Weak members or weak neighbours: it is the mob spirit crushing genius, or overwhelming opposition by brute arithmetic.  Of course, one must be of good family to do anything much that is worth doing; but what is one to say when the question of the Great Work is posed?

Bless you, the whole strength of the family is based on the fact that it cares for the family only: therefore its magical formula thus concentrated is of necessity hostile to so exclusively individual an aim as Initiation.

Its sentiments are reciprocated.

In every Magical, or similar system, it is invariably the first condition which the Aspirant must fulfill: he must once and for all and for ever put his family outside his magical circle.

Even the Gospels insist clearly and weightily on this.

Christ himself (i.e. whoever is meant by this name in this passage) callously disowns his mother and his brethren (Luke VIII, 19).  And he repeatedly makes discipleship contingent on the total renunciation of all family ties.  He would not even allow a man to attend his father's funeral!

Is the magical tradition less rigid?

Not on your life!

The one serious grimoire of the Middle Ages is The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage.  He makes no bone about it.  He even condescends to point out the family as the most serious of all the obstacles to the performance of the Operation, and he gives the correct psychological reasons why this should be so.  You said it yourself!  “Family pressure” was your pungent and pertinent expression.  Just so.

I think that “family” should include any body of persons with common interests which they expect or wish you to share.  One's old school or university, the regiment, the golf club, the business, the party, the country: any of these may dislike very much your absorption in affairs alien to their own.  But the family is the classic type, because its pull is so potent and persistent.  It began when you gave your first yell; your personality is deliberately wrenched and distorted to the family code; and their zoology is so inadequate that they always feel sure that their Ugly Duckling is a Black Sheep.  Even for their Fool they find a use: he can be invaluable in the Church of in the Army, where docile incompetence is the sure key to advancement.

Curse them!  They are always in the way.

Even centuries after one of them is dead, he exercises his abominable craft; and you are only the less able to ward off the slaps of the Dead Hand, because (after all!) there is a whole lot of him in you.  He appears at times as a sort of alien conscience; and, indebted as you may be to him for your physical constitution—I give him credit for not having saddled you with gout, rheumatism, T.B., or other plague—and many of your most useful virtues, you want to handle your assets yourself, without a subterranean current of criticism, or even active interference through others in your sole preoccupation in the Great Work.

I have not actually detected any ancestor of mine stealing my whiskey, as the advertisement warns us may happen: but—oh well!  However you like to look at it, he is always an influence upon you; and that, good or bad, you quite rightly resent.

In the Brahmin caste, the aspirant to Yoga makes it a rule to fulfill his duties to the family and the State; once those jobs are definitely done, he cuts the painter, and becomes Sannyasi.  Many a Maharajah, many a Wazir, to say nothing of less responsible people, plan their lives from their earliest days of wearing the sacred Cord as Brahmacharyi, with these ambitions carefully mapped out; and when the right moment comes for him to disappear into the jungle—the rest is Silence.

A sound scheme: that is, provided that one has full confidence in the General Theory.  But we Caucasians happen not to believe in the Vedas, at least not in the dyed-in-the-wool sense which comes natural to the budding Brahmin; as to “our own”—why our own?—scriptures, no intelligent person takes them seriously any more.  Some folk whittle away merrily, and fashion a Saviour in their own images; others strain the text and concoct a symbolic interpretation which is more or less satisfying—as can be done with any bunch of legends.  But such devices leave us without Accepted Authority, and without that nobody is going to gamble away his life.  Thus the Path for men of spiritual integrity begins with absolute scepticism.  Our methods must be exclusively inductive.

“Gamble away his life,” did I say?  Indeed I did.  If there is any truth at all in anything, or even any meaning in life, in Nature herself; then there is one thing, one thing only paramount: to find out who one is, what is one's necessary Way.

The alternative to the Great Work is the hotchpot of dispersion, of fatuity, or disconnected nonsense.

To the performance of this Work the nearest obstacle and the most obvious is the Family.  Its presumption is manifest, in that it expects everybody to yield it first priority.

In the Russian troubles following the October Revolution, General Denikin, who was trying to put Humpty-Dumpty back on the wall, captured the aged parents of Leon Trotsky, in command of the enemy, and chivalrously telegraphed him to withdraw his troops to certain positions, otherwise the old people would be shot.  Trotsky replied “Shoot!”

The point of this story is that I hope it will answer your next question: You are so very clear and firm about the family; then why don't you insist on all your pupils starting with a domestic holocaust?

Why?  Because a lot of my early rock climbing was done on Beachy Head. Ask me something harder!

Look you now, chalk has every possible element of danger from the standpoint of the cragsman.  All the more glory to him who can master it!

It is an essential part of the Rosicrucian system that the Adept should “wear the costume of the country in which he is travelling.”  I take this in the widest sense.  By that word “country” I understand this planet and this social status “to which it has pleased God to call me.”  The Brethren of the Rose and Cross depreciated monastic life or hermit life: perhaps they thought such expedients cowardly, or at least as a confes- sion of weakness.

I agree.  One ought to be able to live the normal life of a member of one's class, to all external seeming; at least sufficiently so as not to appear unduly eccentric.

Perhaps “Let my servants be few & secret: …” bears some such implication.

But the condition of allowing such apparent laxity is this:  That one should be as swift and terse as Trotsky in any similar situation.

If one's family were reasonable human beings, (But they never are, she sighed) one could perhaps do wiseliest by explaining the situation.  “This Work of mine—you don't understand it, no need that you should—is the only important part of my life.  I mean to be scrupulously careful of your feelings, and I see no reason why my chosen career should damage our relations.  There is only one thing to remember: IF I ever get the faintest suspicion that you are opposing me, or condemning my plans, or interfering in any way, even with the best intentions, THEN—with a single blow I sever our relations, and for ever.”  “Well, that's really very nice of you, Holy One,” you might say; “but you are not the only one to be considered, what about the Masters?  Do they ride us on the snaffle?  Tradition says not so.”

This depends wholly on you.  If you are a quite ordinary Aspirant, and a few dozen incarnations one way or the other don't make such a difference, then They presumably won't bother about you at all.  In the course of centuries, Karma will roll out the creases.

But—suppose you are of those specially chosen to execute some necessary operation in the course of Their plans?  Quite another pair of boots to tread that Path.  Don't imagine that you are not on it yet, either, just because you happen to be in a mood of humility.  A pawn may be more powerful than a Rook, in some positions.

However, even if you are not on it, you can start to-day.  That is one of the matters that depends exclusively on you.

...

 

https://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/index

 

( My emphases.  ) 

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23 hours ago, nems said:

I feel like the stress from my parents is slowly shortening my life more and more. Two years ago when the pandemic started I "ran away" from them to live with my boyfriend. Since then we've bought a house, got engaged and I'm feeling so much better than I have in my entire life. Initially I didn't talk to them often or see them, but I felt it was somehow morally wrong? I know a lot of the reason I don't cut ties is that they raised me to be sort of an emotional outlet for themselves and I feel a lot of guilt for not giving them what they want, but I also feel like they don't even know any better.

 

To give context, I grew up in a really small town in the middle of nowhere. My school was ranked one of the worst in my state (bottom five percent) when factoring in mental illness, self harm, drug use, grades, academic achievement, etc. It's rampant with heroin... to the point where most males in my grade didn't have mothers by the time they were 18. Everyone in my community was very republican (at least in voting) I wouldn't say conservative because no one was very traditional in their views or actions. I constantly begged them to move as I got older because I could see that this was not how every community was. It was so unhealthy, unsafe and terrifying. We absolutely had the means to move and they always complained about the town but yet wouldn't move. I never understood why until a few years ago. 

 

My parents are ''liberal'' and it's like they live there solely to judge those around them to feel better about themselves. I don't mean to bring up politics nor do I want to discuss it, but it does factor into A LOT if not all of their actions. Their political allegiance is their entire identity. All they do is talk about people behind their backs and judge and parrot quotes they see on facebook to support their views. I had NO idea how much that behavior messed with me growing up. I struggled with eating disorders all the time and I developed severe body dysphoria. There are so many situations where I've desperately needed them to protect me or help me and I received none. Though, my mom still guilts me for having to drive me to therapy as a teen (stopped going because she made me feel like a burden) or to doctor's appointments and meeting my basic needs or buying me toys. They were severely neglected growing up, so whenever I needed to talk to them or tried to express my feelings it became a comparison. 

 

      Their entire lives are spent on Facebook and I've noticed since they first gotten it they've only become more unbearable to be around. It feeds all of their narcissistic tendencies and worsens all of their biases AND gives them easy access to people's lives in order to judge them. They portray themselves as "liberals" to seem like they are better than everyone. Everyone else is undereducated and bigoted while they are the most intelligent people they know. They are chronically "surrounded by idiots" and it somehow gives them solace instead of making them want to be with like minded people. Whatever they see on the news they will talk about non stop and mold their stance to whatever they're told without really thinking about it or looking into it more. As a teenager I would study world events in accordance to their political beliefs because I wanted to have something to talk about with my dad so badly... But if I said one wrong thing he would scream at me and berate me until he was red in the face and I was a sobbing mess. I understand now that a lot of that stuff solely exists to enhance people's biases and divide them against their neighbors, but they still don't and they've fallen so deep into this pit of narcissism and self serving opinions that I feel like I can't have a relationship with them anymore. It's less terrible when I'm alone with one of them having one on one conversations, but they always talk about each other behind their backs and always have. It doesn't feel good to me at all.

 

I am 21. My mom is 66 and my dad just turned 75. My mom didn't believe she could still get pregnant when they conceived me.  It feels like I was a mistake that they never cared to raise. My grandma lived next door and raised me more than I ever realized. Almost of my childhood memories are with her. She was the one I called mom. I love her more than anything, but a few years ago she passed away and I realized how alone I was. It's been really painful coming to this point. Every time I see them I notice the stress in my body. It's gotten to a point where it physically hurts to be near them and when I leave I have to spend the evening trying to let go of all the awful things they think and say. All the jabs at me they take that irritate me but are passive aggressive to the point they're not even worth fighting against. All the nasty things they tell me about the kids I went to school with. All the jokes about people's weight, appearance, social status, etc. They genuinely take delight in the misfortunes of others and think I will too, but it's breaking my heart.

 

   After re reading all of this and thinking about it, I feel like I actually really really hate them. I don't like it at all. I know when they die I will be so relieved and it disgusts me. The guilt dissolves when I feel this way, but in a few hours it will come back and I will feel like I need to be there for them again. It feels like an actual poison, and I can't compare it to anything else. It's actually begun making me feel physically ill the longer I'm around them. This post ended up a lot longer than I initially thought, and there is still more. I'm just not sure what to do at this point. I feel like I'm leaving them to die alone, and no one deserves that, but I also don't think I need to suffer like this anymore. Has anyone else been through something similar? Did you have techniques to release the stress or did you just cut them out entirely? I've attempted talking to them about their facebook use by asking them introspective questions but it seems like they genuinely lack the ability to question and form their own beliefs or like... understand their actions and choices in general... It terrifies me that people can be this way, let alone it being my parents.

 

Your parents sound like my own mother and stepdad.

 

One thing I've learned is that you can love and have gratitude for your parents for bringing you life, but you don't have to like them.

 

"Love your parents for bringing you life, love your teachers for saving you from the inevitable suffering that comes with living through their teachings" (whether those teachings are Dharma or Dao). 

 

A good way to help is to remember that they don't see themselves as 66 and 75, they are children--children of their own parents who still feel like they aren't adults or have the lives they wish that they had and like you, are crying inside wishing that someone gave them the childhood they grieve over never having, hence the snide remarks for you trying to just get support and love.

 

Hang in there. 

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On 11/12/2021 at 8:25 AM, nems said:

I feel like the stress from my parents is slowly shortening my life more and more. Two years ago when the pandemic started I "ran away" from them to live with my boyfriend. Since then we've bought a house, got engaged and I'm feeling so much better than I have in my entire life. Initially I didn't talk to them often or see them, but I felt it was somehow morally wrong? I know a lot of the reason I don't cut ties is that they raised me to be sort of an emotional outlet for themselves and I feel a lot of guilt for not giving them what they want, but I also feel like they don't even know any better.

 

I don't think you should feel guilty about limiting your time and energy connecting with them.  Due to their age, and how long this has been going on, it's probably unrealistic to attempt to get them to recognize how their actions effect you.  But, they may still change on their own as they get older and approach the end of their lives.  

 

Recognizing that they don't know better is a good first step to shoring up defenses against the psychlogical garbage they are offloading onto you.  It's not morally wrong to create space between you and them.  Yes, they wil always be your parents, but that isn't a license to use you as an emotional outlet.  Remember they are the parents, you are the child, their responsibility for good behavior is always greater than yours.  The parent child relationship is very deep and very powerful.  If they are not role modeling good behavior, they are violating their responsibility to you as their child.  There should be no moral concerns about abandoning them if they aren't parenting in a healthy manner.

 

On 11/12/2021 at 8:25 AM, nems said:

  It feels like I was a mistake that they never cared to raise.

 

It might be true that they didn't plan to have a child; but, something to consider... You never chose to be born into their family either.  You never consented to any of this.  This affords tremendous freedom, imho.  As I said above, The parent child relationship is deep and powerful.  There is a sacred trust that is weighted heavily on the parents to raise a child with love patience and understanding.  From what you've written, it sounds like that trust has been broken or never acknowleged in the first place.

 

On 11/12/2021 at 8:25 AM, nems said:

After re reading all of this and thinking about it, I feel like I actually really really hate them. I don't like it at all. I know when they die I will be so relieved and it disgusts me. The guilt dissolves when I feel this way, but in a few hours it will come back and I will feel like I need to be there for them again. It feels like an actual poison, and I can't compare it to anything else. It's actually begun making me feel physically ill the longer I'm around them.

 

Your feelings are justified.  Describing it as poison is accurate.  You don't need to feel guilty.  Any normal person would react the same way.

 

On 11/12/2021 at 8:25 AM, nems said:

This post ended up a lot longer than I initially thought, and there is still more. I'm just not sure what to do at this point. I feel like I'm leaving them to die alone, and no one deserves that, but I also don't think I need to suffer like this anymore. Has anyone else been through something similar? Did you have techniques to release the stress or did you just cut them out entirely?

 

Perhaps it would be helpful to frame it a little differently, a little less extreme.  Instead of cutting them off entirely, take a break from the relationship.  I think it's perfectly fine to be deceptive with your parents in order to take control of the situation.  Perhaps write them an email and explain that you need some time to work on yourself.  ( This is a lie, of course, but it's for a good cause: keeping the peace ).  Let them know you won't be contacting them for a while, visiting them, or interacting with them online.  Keep the message simple, short, and neutral.  You're limiting your exposure to the poison.  It's not leaving them to die alone.  This way you're in control of the relationship.  You're not cutting them off forever.  You're leaving your options open.

 

Yes, I had a similiar situation with my parents.  Not as severe; but still similar.  I initiated a break in the relationship.  At the time I thought it was permanent; but after several years ( and some talk-therapy ) I've grown strong enough to tolerate their behavior without letting it effect me.  It can be done eventhough parents have such strong ties and influence.  But it needs time and space for that to occur. 

 

You've taken the first most important steps towards creating that space.  You've moved out; you've written out your situation; you're trying to make a decision on what to do next.  All of these are positive.  You should be proud of yourself for maintaining your composure under very very difficult circumstances.  The next step is to take control of the relationship; continue to give yourself space away from them; and perhaps consider some therapy.

 

Best wishes,

 

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These were some really great replies. I've never really put my problems out there like this but I'm glad I did. Even just typing it all out and then reading it again made me realize what garbage I've been dealing with, and I didn't even have to include the terrible things they've said to me or the extent of emotional abuse.

 A lot of the guilt I feel is because they really are a lot like children. My mom reminds me of girls I would hang around with at age 11-13 that had a lot of trouble at home and never grew out of the catty/jealous/spiteful/insecure behavior. A lot like those kids, I don't think she's a full blown psychopath (maybe she's heading there) but it's like she doesn't really know how to separate the world that hurt her from the world that could be her own. My mom is an ashiest (kind of) She's told me things like how she stops believing in God to punish Him because she never gets what she wants. I can't even begin to break down that statement and how much that sort of mentality has directly ruined her life.

My dad is Christian (kind of) but again with his faith you can see the underlying attitude that causes problems. Someone in his church had his son die in an accident and every Sunday he'd say something about how he can't wait see his son again... He used to be a monk for about 20 years and ended up leaving and getting married. His wife is the pastor at the church now and they devote a lot of their lives to Christianity and studying it. He's someone who's views on his faith have developed and changed but he believes what he believes for a reason. They are genuinely really good and learned people... He might not even mean to literally see his son. My dad gossips about how dumb he is for believing you can be united with your loved ones in heaven and how he's essentially more intelligent or "right" because all he wants is to be "with god." Like he believes he is the end all be all of wisdom, which in my opinion is exactly what makes you stupid. It's just stuff like that. I don't think he will identify as Christian much longer because I know based on his views he sees Christians being made fun of all the time or painted as ignorant/stupid on facebook. He's pushing away the last decent people in his life so he can match the persona facebook created for him. I'm expecting a militant ashiest phase before he dies.

  I'm going to take a break from them. I posted this initially because my mom is leaving my dad alone for a week to go see her son and I felt bad for him being alone and no one coming to see him. I kept debating if I should go visit. If it were me I'd be okay to be alone for a week, if not I would go out myself. In fact he needs to be alone to think more than anything, but he will probably waste it to watch the news and go on facebook. It really does feel like they hold me back from that true sense of freedom. It's like the last thing weighing me down. If any other people were treating me like they do I would not tolerate it. I don't even associate with people like that if I can help it. You can see it from a mile away and it's really not the type that just "needs a friend to lean on" or someone to show them love. I can't really help them or say anything that gets them thinking because it's like they've been like this too long. I may as well accept it. They made that choice long ago.

Plus by the way I've been talking about them, maybe I'm really no better than they are if I go visit after telling people how miserable they make me. :huh:

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On 11/13/2021 at 12:25 AM, nems said:

most males in my grade didn't have mothers by the time they were 18.

 

What does it mean?

 

Your dad is 75.   People at that age develop problems in walking, handling stairs, drinking, chewing, swallowing, seeing and having dementia.  Some don't even recognize their children.  This is in addition to all the other sicknesses.   Some of them lose interest in life and become half zombie like.  From a few years onward, you would be very happy that your dad can still watch the screen, and still having something interest him, and have a sound mind that able to belittle others.

 

I do think keeping distance from him would be good.   But your case is different.  Time is slipping away.  And it doesn't help to feel remorse for the rest of your life for not doing something when you still have a chance.

 

Considering his age, you do need to visit him periodically.  If it is too difficult for you, ask him to report his own status on FB every few hours.  It can be disguised by asking him to send you interesting items, video of his cooking etc.   Chat with him on FB messenger too.  You can be "too busy " to reply promptly, this he would understand.  It would avoid him get hurt or fainted when there is no one in the house.  You could install some apps into his phone that can keep you informed of his physical location in case he goes out.  I am sure you can think of ingenious ways to utilize the situation to benefit him without hurting yourself.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

 

What does it mean?

 

 

 

I meant that by the time the male peers in my school were 18 most of them didn't have a mother caring for them or living with them. Most of their mothers just lost custody of their children because of abuse or drug problems, some lost their mother to drug overdose and a lot were just abandoned by their mother at some point. Our school was very small but only about 4 boys in my graduating class still had a mother living with them.                                                                                                                                                                                        I think you bring up a good point I wasn't thinking about initially. He is in pretty good health as of now, but it's going to decline sooner or later. 75 probably sounds very old, but most people in my family live to be at least 100 and don't show signs of frailty until they're around 90. I don't know if he will be that lucky because he's neglected his health a lot. He still is able to walk and is not showing any signs of dementia yet, so it's hard to think of him as a feeble old person.. until he is.                                                                                                      I don't want him to needlessly suffer if he falls or gets hurt. I don't have Facebook and I don't get any cell phone reception where I live. He also doesn't even have a cell phone, he mainly uses a tablet to go on facebook so I'm not sure exactly what I'll do. I'm not in an ideal spot for any emergency they might have because there is no way for people to call me or really communicate except through email. I will have to think of a way...

It's hard to get across his mental state/behavior through text. It's a big reason why I don't want to visit. If I could put it all down here I think people would tell me to never speak to my parents again even if they are elderly. He is not the type to share interests or emotions other than anger with other people and it feels like a lot of his happiness has always been acquired through putting people down or being right. I don't think he ever went through the normal emotional development of a man so he doesn't have many interests or hobbies to talk about or bring up. I seem to cause him stress when I visit him because he looks at me as a failure for not thinking exactly like him. More like I'm a waste of his time or somebody to talk about behind their back. Plus I know deep down he sees women as weak and a waste of time because he mocks them when they cry or pay attention to babies or do anything feminine. Maybe finding a visiting nurse is my best option.

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21 hours ago, nems said:

most people in my family live to be at least 100 and don't show signs of frailty until they're around 90. I don't know if he will be that lucky because he's neglected his health a lot. He still is able to walk and is not showing any signs of dementia yet, so it's hard to think of him as a feeble old person.. until he is.   

                                                                                                   I'm not in an ideal spot for any emergency they might have because there is no way for people to call me or really communicate except through email. I will have to think of a way...est option.

 

We Taoist are very interested in longevity.  The whole family to be at least 100 seems fantastic.   Can you tell us if it is more of hereditary - the family only or even the relatives,  or things you people eat or do?  Actually your family is quite admirable.  Long life and intact family amongst most broken ones. 

 

For the Facebook and communication matter, you better see if anyone can help.  It is also for your own safety.  It is quite inconceivable for me to think of living so far off.

 

21 hours ago, nems said:

If I could put it all down here I think people would tell me to never speak to my parents again even if they are elderly.

 

This kind of advice is not without merit.  Since speaking is not useful or even bring more problems in the past, why speak so  much.  Try to touch their hearts by touching their bodies.  Keep you mouth shut as much as possible.  See this website: https://arborsassistedliving.com/importance-of-touch-for-seniors/

 

Imagine you go back to the time when you were a little girl when you hug your father and play with him.  You didn't fully understand what he said.  But there was no problem in relating to each other.   Now you don't have to listen and analyze what he says and plan to argue with him.  Being present and hold his hand is love already, and time flies.  You would return home after the visit feeling better than before. 

 

In the longer term, learn a bit massage, or Taoist acupressure (not acupuncture, no needles).  Seniors always got pain and stiffness here and there.  Such techniques sometimes can do what western medicine or physiotherapy cannot do.  Even if not so successful, they still offer temporary relief.  You don't have learn the full material, just those you need.  Concentrate and use your senses to feel the muscles and tendons, softly massage them.   Avoid the side of the neck, ribs, or protruding veins, for likelihood of bone fracture for old folks and dislodge blood clots which can travel to the heart. 
 

If it is too awkward, you can tell your father you are learning and working on your partner and need someone to practise too.  Such skill would also come in handy for yourself and those around you.

 

Don't worry too much, a lot of eastern parents behave similarly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

 

We Taoist are very interested in longevity.  The whole family to be at least 100 seems fantastic.   Can you tell us if it is more of hereditary - the family only or even the relatives,  or things you people eat or do?  Actually your family is quite admirable.  Long life and intact family amongst most broken ones. 

 

 

 

 

The longevity is on both sides of the family and I have noticed some things about it. They either have a long but painful life or a VERY long and happy life well into their 90s. I think a lot of it is hereditary because everyone seems to live a longer life than average regardless, but the quality of life is so much different depending on their habits and attitudes. Some live to be 95-105 and seem more like a 60 or 70 year old until the very end and have only very minor health problems like bad eyesight. But some die between 85-93 and in the last 20 years they usually can't walk, they're depressed, angry, and just overall sick

Those who lived into their hundreds usually never smoked cigarettes or drank alcohol (except marijuana on my mom's side). They also never ate very much and stayed away from most meat except chicken, eggs and fish. There is also a strong dislike of exercise believe it or not, but they all worked really hard to keep their homes clean and neat. My grandma would get on her hands and knees to scrub her floor almost every day but always joked around about how she's never liked exercise. Her dad lived to be 95 and her mother 103. She talked a lot of their tidiness and how much they loved each other. They never fought or cheated on each other and were married since they were 15. They were all fairly sedentary but not to a point of laziness, and they never ate too much. Usually one meal at the end of the day. It was never on purpose or for religious reasons, it just seemed to be a habit they all grew up with!

 My grandma had 8 brothers and sisters and I've seen all of them die but one and she's 98. She actually is the only one that drinks, but she has a good attitude in general and I think that it keeps her going. She still going out to casinos with her daughter in law.

My mom talked about her own grandma a lot and though I never got to meet her it sounds like her life was pretty similar. She was very strong willed, especially for a woman at that time. That's something all of the people who live the longest have in common. They are extremely strong willed but still positive. Her exercise was walking 4 miles to church and back each Sunday and also keeping her house extremely neat. She lived to be 99 and her husband 103, she died about a month after he passed away. Apparently she was very healthy and mobile up until the very end.

I always noticed that the better the attitude the better their last years were. They'd also have a MUCH easier and less painful time dying.

If they had emotional problems or addiction problems though it was different. They would still live a long time but they were just completely sick and depressed. Their houses were always dirty even before they had a hard time getting around (from what I'm told) and they usually had a lot of problems raising their children in a healthy way. They always had inflammation related problems and I think it's directly from being emotionally stressed.

  Both sides are European. My father's side is Western European (mainly English) and my mother's side is Eastern Europe (Czechoslovakian, Russian, Ukranian, Austrian)  

I've always tried to keep track of people who got really old like the people in my family because I really want to see how long I can stay alive, hopefully some of this is useful information to you... I feel like a lot of it is stuff I've seen online before in regards to extending life spans, but I can tell you from what I've seen the fasting, eating less meat, and not over doing it really does seem to help!

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What I’ve learned for myself is:

 

- Don’t try to change people

- Set an example yourself

- Realise that their personality is a protective mechanism

- They are not their personality - there’s something deeper

- Don’t judge people for their protective mechanisms

- You don’t have to agree with them to accept them as they are

- Learn to let go and not react emotionally

- Find humour in the difficult stuff

- Bing humour and lightness into all your relationships

- Look for things in others to be grateful for

- Offer genuine, deep attention - not emotions, agreement, disagreement etc

 

Im not one for cutting off relationships, but would take space when required - particularly as I was learning the above points.


As I changed, I found my relationships changed… when I reacted with humour instead of being upset or triggered like I had always been before - something changes - both in my recognition of my ‘self’ and in turn in the other person too.

 

After some time, I could offer unwavering, unconditional awareness and acceptance as a form of attention - even when the other person is running through their automated inner script…

 

When I did that, the calm, relaxed space that opened up in me would open up possibilities for the unfolding of something other than their automated script… people would often lose their train of thought because the automated script would dissolve… sometimes it resulted in tears… sometimes it results in this thoughtless space, sometimes laughter or a shift in mood etc.

 

Must've been funny to be a fly on the wall when this first happened in a strong way with a particular individual… I was being judged and berated and told ‘what I needed to hear’… again…

 

before - I would react by being hurt, or defensive or closed off… but this time I was silent (but anything but numb) - fully present and accepting of the moment (not the criticism) - hearing everything clearly, sensing everything behind the words but not allowing them to trigger any knee-jerk emotions in me…

 

as the person continued, they’d get tongue tied, their breathing got heavy and strained, they started sobbing in the middle of a sentence (though fully there, I don’t react to this)… the tears dried up and it turned into an emotion of rage - garbled shouting, mumbling, trembling - everything tense - started with being directed at me but very quickly changed - as if I wasn’t even there anymore (but I was still not reacting, still fully present)… then stillness, no words, time just stopped.
 

The person closed their eyes and sat there for 5 minutes or so in silence (felt much longer) then fell asleep - which is when I left them to it.

 

Our relationship transformed after that (we never spoke about this event since)… in fact their relationship with others changed too.

 

This is obviously a very unusual thing that happened - Im not suggesting it would happen often… but what I am suggesting is that by changing my own reactivity (which took time and practice) it helped the other person too. 
 

I travel a lot and come across all sorts of people - ones that I don’t agree with ethically - ones that hold beliefs and opinions that seem completely abhorrent to me.
 

But by cultivating the above points, I find I can connect with people on a different level - and can relate positively even though it’s clear we don’t agree in many other areas. 

 

This has helped to reveal that we’re all the same below the surface - that we’re all connected in a much deeper way than our opinions, beliefs, thoughts etc.

 

Its not that these things don’t matter (they do) - but you can’t make people change… all you can do is offer some connection and kindness.

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4 hours ago, freeform said:

What I’ve learned for myself is:

 

- Don’t try to change people

- Set an example yourself

- Realise that their personality is a protective mechanism

- They are not their personality - there’s something deeper

- Don’t judge people for their protective mechanisms

- You don’t have to agree with them to accept them as they are

- Learn to let go and not react emotionally

- Find humour in the difficult stuff

- Bing humour and lightness into all your relationships

- Look for things in others to be grateful for

- Offer genuine, deep attention - not emotions, agreement, disagreement etc

 

Im not one for cutting off relationships, but would take space when required - particularly as I was learning the above points.


As I changed, I found my relationships changed… when I reacted with humour instead of being upset or triggered like I had always been before - something changes - both in my recognition of my ‘self’ and in turn in the other person too.

 

After some time, I could offer unwavering, unconditional awareness and acceptance as a form of attention - even when the other person is running through their automated inner script…

 

When I did that, the calm, relaxed space that opened up in me would open up possibilities for the unfolding of something other than their automated script… people would often lose their train of thought because the automated script would dissolve… sometimes it resulted in tears… sometimes it results in this thoughtless space, sometimes laughter or a shift in mood etc.

 

Must've been funny to be a fly on the wall when this first happened in a strong way with a particular individual… I was being judged and berated and told ‘what I needed to hear’… again…

 

before - I would react by being hurt, or defensive or closed off… but this time I was silent (but anything but numb) - fully present and accepting of the moment (not the criticism) - hearing everything clearly, sensing everything behind the words but not allowing them to trigger any knee-jerk emotions in me…

 

as the person continued, they’d get tongue tied, their breathing got heavy and strained, they started sobbing in the middle of a sentence (though fully there, I don’t react to this)… the tears dried up and it turned into an emotion of rage - garbled shouting, mumbling, trembling - everything tense - started with being directed at me but very quickly changed - as if I wasn’t even there anymore (but I was still not reacting, still fully present)… then stillness, no words, time just stopped.
 

The person closed their eyes and sat there for 5 minutes or so in silence (felt much longer) then fell asleep - which is when I left them to it.

 

Our relationship transformed after that (we never spoke about this event since)… in fact their relationship with others changed too.

 

This is obviously a very unusual thing that happened - Im not suggesting it would happen often… but what I am suggesting is that by changing my own reactivity (which took time and practice) it helped the other person too. 
 

I travel a lot and come across all sorts of people - ones that I don’t agree with ethically - ones that hold beliefs and opinions that seem completely abhorrent to me.
 

But by cultivating the above points, I find I can connect with people on a different level - and can relate positively even though it’s clear we don’t agree in many other areas. 

 

This has helped to reveal that we’re all the same below the surface - that we’re all connected in a much deeper way than our opinions, beliefs, thoughts etc.

 

Its not that these things don’t matter (they do) - but you can’t make people change… all you can do is offer some connection and kindness.


Thanks for sharing a preview of the contents of your next best seller!

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My thinking: 

 

“not much time - better write a short one and don’t worry about grammar and being precise with language”

 

The result: a wall of text 😅

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6 minutes ago, freeform said:

My thinking: 

 

“not much time - better write a short one and don’t worry about grammar and being precise with language”

 

The result: a wall of text 😅


I have the same problem. I also use creativity waves. If I write, sometimes my fiction takes weeks to perfect a 2-3 page short story, or I may even get 15 pages in two hours and a first draft that doesn’t need many changes.

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4 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

or I may even get 15 pages in two hours and a first draft that doesn’t need many changes.


Yeah it’s interesting how things flow sometimes - and how other times they’re excruciatingly difficult to get out…

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On 11/18/2021 at 4:50 AM, nems said:

The longevity is on both sides of the family and I have noticed some things about it. They either have a long but painful life or a VERY long and happy life well into their 90s. I think a lot of it is hereditary because everyone seems to live a longer life than average regardless, but the quality of life is so much different depending on their habits and attitudes.

 

 

Thanks, these are very useful real life observations.  One more question, I don't expect your greater family is mountain dweller?   Those living in mountains usually live longer.

 

Some of your relatives may start off with a little discomfort, not really sickness, or not recovering well from illness or wounds.  It somehow affects them being not so active, not so positive.  They could become more easily irritated,  impatient, easier to go for substances to lessen their situations, less active...   And in turn these affect their bodies.  Then it becomes a vicious cycle.  So their habits and attitudes could both be a cause and a result. 

 

BTW, I will clean up more often from now on.

 

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On 19/11/2021 at 4:19 PM, Master Logray said:

@freeform @Earl Grey  Do you guys reply on phones?  It is quite tedious for long messages, and hamper your creative thinking.  I mostly use a PC.


I reply using both.

 

I don’t find it much more difficult on one machine or another.
 

The one thing that does affect me is the light from the screen - this is proving to be detrimental for this phase of my training… I’m having to turn the brightness right down - but then I can barely see 😅

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24 minutes ago, freeform said:


I reply using both.

 

I don’t find it much more difficult on one machine or another.
 

The one thing that does affect me is the light from the screen - this is proving to be detrimental for this phase of my training… I’m having to turn the brightness right down - but then I can barely see 😅


same… like you, content and quality of thought transmits easily. 

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