rideforever

Unknown Zhan Zhuang / Yiquan / Standing Posture

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8 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

did anyone meet him personally, or, paid money for healing dao seminar.

 

Yes :rolleyes:

 

He's a really nice, friendly guy.

 

Good businessman. Likes to enjoy life - and does. Loves being at the top of the ‘Qigong industry’. Enjoys the romanticism of Daoism.

 

He’s not a charlatan - in that he thinks what he’s doing is ‘authentic enough’.

 

But no humility.

 

I’ve met people who’ve been teaching these arts for literally decades come to one of my ‘classical lineage’ teachers and realise and admit (most importantly to themselves) that they’ve actually never done anything authentically internal ever before.

 

Michael does some pretty spectacular mental gymnastics to avoid that.

 

And speaking of gymnastics - he can’t touch his toes... :)

 

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1 minute ago, freeform said:

 

Yes :rolleyes:

 

He's a really nice, friendly guy.

 

Good businessman. Likes to enjoy life - and does. Loves being at the top of the ‘Qigong industry’. Enjoys the romanticism of Daoism.

 

He’s not a charlatan - in that he thinks what he’s doing is ‘authentic enough’.

 

But no humility.

 

I’ve met people who’ve been teaching these arts for literally decades come to one of my ‘classical lineage’ teachers and realise and admit (most importantly to themselves) that they’ve actually never done anything authentically internal ever before.

 

Michael does some pretty spectacular mental gymnastics to avoid that.

 

And speaking of gymnastics - he can’t touch his toes... :)

 

 

When you are able to live like a pop star, due to dao practice, it is understandable that people would be enjoying life.

 

Authentic systems are different due to progression inside, i.e levels many don't like. When you can go from A point to B point and then to C point this is level / progression based system.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

All the criticisms of MW may be true.

But something else that is true is that he is an awakened being and has a very advanced knowledge of the internal structure of the soul, and that he is happy, and has happened to cultivate himself whilst being joyful at the same time.  I believe he was at university in California in the 60s, so he has that feeling about him.

Of him you can say .... "he made it".

 

( But that doesn't mean he doesn't over-tense his shoulders or that he can touch his toes, or that he hasn't got personal flaws. )

 

The reason I say all this is because for instance in his Blissful Breathing Qigong (QE3), which is supposedly a minor part of his structure, I happened to notice that one of the movements not only awakens and embodies chakras in the forehead, but then surrenders them vertically downwards to the dantien, and also integrates the horizontally with consciousness at the back of the head.  Wow.   I only know of one other person on the planet who even knows such things are possible, let alone someone who turned the entire practice into a supposedly simply qigong movement.

MW himself probably doesn't even realise that is what is happening, because he knows through his movement, and he knows a lot.

Somehow the mixture of being in China a lot, being a journalist, and being a hippie, has worked out for him.

 

Funny thing is I hate people who smile a lot so I don't do much of his work at the moment, but the most important thing right now  I do comes from him.

 

Edited by rideforever
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1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

Wudang methods

 

Sadly also completely empty these days :(

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2 hours ago, rideforever said:

( But that doesn't mean he doesn't over-tense his shoulders or that he can touch his toes, or that he hasn't got personal flaws. )

 

These aren’t personal flaws. They’re just normal characteristics in most of the human population.

 

But these shouldn’t be characteristics in a Qi Gong teacher.

 

Just as a shaky hand shouldn’t be a characteristic of a heart surgeon.

 

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

he is an awakened being

 

If you mean ‘awakened’ from a Daoist perspective (a Zhenren) - then no, he certainly doesn’t appear to have the qualities.

 

But if you mean in some other more general way then maybe...

 

You’re certainly right in that he’s ‘made it’ in his business life - making a good income doing what he enjoys - that’s most people’s dream. He can even just message his email list when he needs a new girlfriend! Definitely made it!

 

He hasn’t succumbed to the creepy sex guru stuff as much as many other HT instructors have (at least to my knowledge)... so in my eyes he’s actually a great guy - just not a great Qigong teacher.

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48 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Sadly also completely empty these days :(

Hasn't it always been like:

Disciples get the full system, students get a diluted version, tourists get whatever they can in the few days they spend in the presence of the teacher. 

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8 minutes ago, freeform said:

Zhenren

 

Well ... maybe I don't disagree with you !!!

But, in terms of priorities becoming awakened in some fashion is the priority, by any means necessary, and in terms of this very much imperfect and slightly carnival world ... if you can do that with a happy face and yes have sex with people who dig what you are doing and be friendly to money-energy, well it's not bad.

I personally appreciate and trust a serious rigorous tradition and have cultivated myself in that way, but on the weekend I do eat a lot of "chocolate cake" and I am certain it informs my practice in a good way.
I do remember that scene in "good the bad and the ugly" when the ugly one meets his long-lost brother who became a priest and the priest gets all self righteous ... and then the ugly one says, well who had to deal with real life and look after the family and so on ... it's easy to escape into the mountains so you can "pray to god" or whatever.   

"My way was harder" !!!

There are many energies and ways, that all need to be respected and followed on their own terms.

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Hasn't it always been like:

Disciples get the full system, students get a diluted version, tourists get whatever they can in the few days they spend in the presence of the teacher. 

 

Yup - then tourists come back to the west claiming authenticity...

 

Sadly most of the real disciples left Wudang many years ago. It’s more of a tourist attraction nowadays.

 

The communist party has decided to keep Wudang as a ‘cultural heritage area’ and ‘disneyfied’ the place... A giant Daoist theme park is being built there (if not already complete) - so you can go and get your picture taken with Laozi :)

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9 minutes ago, rideforever said:

be friendly to money-energy

 

:lol:

 

Sure. I’m convinced that Michael knows that his ‘inner cultivation’ is mainly business related.

 

When he talks to students it’s all ‘soul consciousness’, ‘cosmic Qi’ and ‘immortality’... when he talks to his teaching staff it’s all marketing and how best to make money out of all this (“there’s no money in books or in-person training - stick to online trainings or dvds if you’re going for the retiree market” etc. The ‘teachers’ were furiously taking notes 😆)

 

To be honest most of his students just want to ‘de-stress’ and ‘feel spiritual’ - they don’t really care about real spiritual cultivation and all that it entails. So for them imagining tigers mating with dragons inside your body is perfectly fine...

 

What saddens me is that he has some students that really are interested in the path and have dedicated lots of time on practice and money on trainings, dvds and books and made big sacrifices to do that... but they get the same imaginary crap. That to me is upsetting. But I guess the ones with the real drive and determination figure out ‘the game’ sooner or later anyway :) 

 

Just hope they don’t end up in Wudang 😅

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I´ve gone to workshops with Michael Winn.  Sometimes people are really good at one thing and phenomenally bad at something else.  If you look at what they are bad at, it´s hard to believe that there´s this other skillful part.  I believe this is the case with Michael Winn.  He knows his stuff and can teach.  You just wouldn´t know it from watching him stand or move.

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Real spiritual teachers who teach a direct and honestly presented path have few students, that's my experience.
Human beings are a complete madhouse frankly.
I have done things to myself people would not believe, but hey I just walked down the street and my very conventional neighbours were cleaning up after the Brighton Marathon with a dustpan and broom, and I helped them out for ten minutes.
So ?
They would think I am completely insane if they saw my programme this morning !!!
And how many tears come out of my eyes.
Ha ha ha
What a crazy life.

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1 minute ago, rideforever said:

Human beings are a complete madhouse frankly.

 

I totally agree, me included. :D

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2 hours ago, rideforever said:

Real spiritual teachers who teach a direct and honestly presented path have few students

 

You’re right of course.

 

 

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

Human beings are a complete madhouse frankly.

 

Just human beings?

 

You should see my cat!

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4 hours ago, freeform said:

message his email list when he needs a new girlfriend!

 

This. May be I should have become a teacher too.

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3 hours ago, freeform said:

Sadly most of the real disciples left Wudang many years ago. It’s more of a tourist attraction nowadays.

 

There was an awakened yogi in India.

I have seen photo of him sitting with his "disciples". That was a group of 30-40 practitioners with special symbols on their forehead. But he also had, 2 servants. When the yogi "passed away". Disciples just left, but the servants, took over his place, claimed that they were his 2 closest disciples and inherited his will and "teaching" to bring it to the "west". Started giving seminars using the name of revered teacher. They became rich.

 

The moral of this story - humans are humans.

 

I have been looking and I could not find one real master, who teaches for money openly in the internet.

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Most of my teachers are non human.

Turns out they are literally everywhere around me... in every thing and non-thing.

Patiently sharing of their nature without claims, obligations or usually even words.

 

For much of my life the pursuit of truth masked the experience of the natural state.

 

Occlusion to the simple raw beingness of truth, mostly it seems due to my own efforts, striving, seeking, ceaseless straining and endless searching 'out there' for 'the truth' that I assumed must lay somewhere outside me, created a cacophony of noise, sound, assurity in assumption that blocked out the teachings.

 

When real exhaustion after endless side paths of untruth and fruitless bs brought on deep silence and all but the most raw awareness fell away...  Then did I unfold effortlessly into the natural state.  Do flowers unfold in great striving, or effortlessly of their own nature?

 

Truly, it was a poor man, who strutted about proclaiming the universe to be mute, while not listening.

 

That which is, is.  Perhaps this is why so many lineages share similar realizations of 'quieting and abiding in simplicity'.   The most basic teachings seem to convey this most effectively to me at this point.  ZZ, simple sitting, shine with depth, resonance and peace.

 

Was buddha sitting to achieve something, or was he awake, and simply sitting? 

 

Reminds me of the old daoist notion that 'a learned man adds something every day in search of truth, while the sage, loses something every day until what remains is naught but what is.'

 

If i let go of all, that which remains... is.

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So, we scanned these people, and servant has way more Qi than Michael Winn.

 

Is there a problem with healing dao practice?

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The healing dao is an empty system that has a number of courses to sell, like 50 courses.

But it has no progression, no difference between A and B, no evolution.

I.e. it does not have any internal cultivation practice.

 

With proper daily work it may take several years or decades to open microcosmic orbit, not few meditations.

So with wrong guidance, it is never opened.

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On 15/04/2019 at 5:43 AM, GSmaster said:

it has no progression

 

Well the progression is basically just going through the courses or DVDs in sequential order...

 

In most lineages each stage is tested and verified. If you think you’ve opened your mco, you can go to your teacher and they’ll test it.

 

There are usually specific, physical changes in the the body that 12 impartial (non practitioner) jurors could see, feel with their hands and test to see if certain things are accomplished.

 

In authentic lineages these are the tests you have to pass to progress through the system (and in most cases if you fail too many times you will be dropped as an inner door student.) 

 

A bit harsh maybe. But good for actual skill development and cutting away of delusion. But terrible for business!

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