Taoist Discussion

[wudangspirit]

I've been on this discussion for a little while and participate a little here and there. There seems to be a pretty good group of people here with there hearts in the right place. This is the reason I stay.

However, can someone shed some light for me on things that maybe I know nothing about but seem not to be Taoist (Daoist) at all?

 

There seems to be a lot of "new age" topics and such discussed here. Most of the time I have nothing to say about that but it seems that our title here is Tao Bums and we have great forums like Taoist Discussion.

Just wondering if we can keep the subject matter narrowed to Taoism. For the most part it seems that we do but there has been an influx of "new age" topics.

 

Someone enlighten me on this?

 

Tao Bless,

 

Wudangspirit

[Pietro]

I've been on this discussion for a little while and participate a little here and there. There seems to be a pretty good group of people here with there hearts in the right place. This is the reason I stay.

However, can someone shed some light for me on things that maybe I know nothing about but seem not to be Taoist (Daoist) at all?

 

There seems to be a lot of "new age" topics and such discussed here. Most of the time I have nothing to say about that but it seems that our title here is Tao Bums and we have great forums like Taoist Discussion.

Just wondering if we can keep the subject matter narrowed to Taoism. For the most part it seems that we do but there has been an influx of "new age" topics.

 

Someone enlighten me on this?

 

Tao Bless,

 

Wudangspirit

Hello Wudangspirit.

The problem is that new age is a bit like porn and complex systems. Hard to define, but you can definitly recognise it when you are confronted with it.

 

The problem is also made harder by the fact that we can generally recognise it in other, but it is hard to recognise it in oneself.

 

One of the problem is that there is a certain number of topics which are not new age di-per-se (by them selves), are new age in the way they are confronted. For example, Internal Alchemy is not new age. It is, historically, a part of Daoist practices. But the lightness that comes from taking a not so good translation of an ancient alchemical text, and trying it out, with no supervision, taking away the parts that do not make sense (i.e. most of it), the part which has too much discipline (i.e. nearly all the rest), and just doing some visualizations would certainly be classified as new age. Similarly I have a great respect for people in a Buddhist path, but for me the idea to take a buddhist book, out of context, with no teacher, and expect to merge some of those practices with some of the Daoist practices with no teacher in those too, is too light to be called naive. It is obviously new age, and I probably foolish. And so on.

 

So I would say that New age is not the topic, is not the person, but the way some people approach some topics sometimes. And I stress the word sometopic, because the same persons are often much deeper when they discuss other topics.

 

And maybe new age is the result that comes from a number of assumptions, and from practicing following those assumptions. Some of the ones that I would definitly class as assumption that tend to make a person act in a new agey way are:

-you can learn a practice from a book

-all spiritual path lead to the same place

-you can (it is safe and useful) take teachings from different traditions and merge them. Also if you are not fully proficient in them

-practices are inerently safe

-we are all god(s) so we do not need any teacher/guide.

-discipline is unnecessary

-There is no final truth, thus everybody have their own truth and understanding of it. All those understandings are equivalent, so no external critique is possible.

 

Note that I said that those assumption tend to make a person "new agey". But they don't necessarily imply it. Especially when only few of them act alone. For example I have a New Yorker friend of mine who strictly believes that "-all spiritual path lead to the same place", but then he is a very disciplined person who studies with several teachers, and is not new age at all. Nor his posts feel new age.

 

I would also add that New Age is where we, as a culture, has recently transitioned through (and I am avoiding to say come from). Think on the way in which people have been doing yoga in the late60s. The flower generation. Now some of those people went back to become stockbroockers. Other made of spirituality their life, and went further to become roshi, and meditation teachers. So it seems an illness that with time does corrects itself. A bit like chickenpox or scarlet fever. And since our culture has been there so recently we cannot really pretend to be free from it so suddenly. It is in a sense our "karma" as a culture.

 

So my take is that when people engage in New Age discussion the best you can do is to go deeper in their own topicand sometime challenge some of their assumptions.

Or just be so new agey yourself that everybody will start to go deeper as a reaction

 

 

 

But maybe we could add a button. You know, like some sites have a SPAM button.

Well our button would be "NEW AGE". The button would not do nothing. Would not call an administrator, or give bad karma. But it would give feedback to the author of the post: so many person thought that your post was new agey. I bet the depth of the conversation would immediatly deepen

 

 

 

Pietro

Edited February 13, 2008 by Pietro

[Wayfarer64]

We search and we strive and we come across new ideas and ways of looking at our world and our place in it...So then, what is left out of the Tao?

 

Is anything?

 

New or old age, wisdom or folly, can't we speak to each of our many conditions in life and offer some insights into "the way" from many perspectives?

 

We westerners are a brash and quixotic lot, our seeking takes many forms. But for me they are each and every one under the umbrella of nature's way, and can't be distinguished from "strict" or perhaps ancient Taoist teachings... anymore than wet can be extracted from water...

 

Being in the flow of natural rythms does not preclude wondering and wandering through various texts or sipping water from a spring, why do new age elements of these testings of our world views not fit into Taoism?

 

I in fact understand yr question and just wish to express a wider view of the problem, many here are reaching out to grasp a fuller understanding of Taoism and can't exclude other ideas from our myriad inputs that seem "taoist" in nature...

 

This is a "sounding" board in part, and ideas will just flow like water -willy-nilly to gather where they may...The new growth here has created a flood of ideas and many smaller streams of consciousness have sprung up from this Taoist center...

 

The lack of purity is an amalgamation that is healthy for the growth in these (ever) changing times, like a mixed breed has a better chance of survival than an in-bred liniage in nature, so I trust we who would study Taoism may lend an ear to many ideas...

[Pero]

Someone enlighten me on this?

 

Sure. This forum is not for discussing Daoism only.

 

Welcome to The Tao Bums discussion forum. This is an informal community created to discuss Tao (Dao), particularly as is expressed in key philosophical texts such as the well known Tao Te Ching of Lao Tzu, health and cultivation practices such as Tai Chi and Qigong (Chi Kung), nonconceptual meditation approaches such as Zuowang (sitting and forgetting), and also the historical developments of Taoism as the bona fide Chinese religion of Taoist priests and shamans. Don't let this intro scare you though. Most of us are syncretic at heart. Discussion is encouraged to wander eclectically across a wide range of spiritual thought and practice, whether Buddhist, Yogic, Tantric, Judaic, Advaitic, Christian, Islamic, Shamanic, Occult, "New Age", Integral... As long as you are up for a good time, you're welcome to discuss your path. Though we can get rowdy at times, we all do our best to keep it civil. We are, almost as a rule, rather strange, but we have good hearts and even better senses of humor.

[joeblast]

It must be that "Taoist Discussion" header

[mYTHmAKER]

Dao is a dao is a daoo

don't press de button if de subject ain't for you

[Procurator]

. For the most part it seems that we do

no you dont.

 

 

 

Just wondering if we can keep the subject matter narrowed to Taoism.

Someone enlighten me on this?

 

No you cant both have a broad audience and discuss Dao. One excludes the other.

 

Why dont you open a protected discussion here on this forum (or on any other) and moderate it? All would be able to read it but dont let newagees to post. Easy.

[freesun]

It actually says it all in the intro text of the board:

 

Discussion is encouraged to wander eclectically across a wide range of spiritual thought and practice, whether Buddhist, Yogic, Tantric, Judaic, Advaitic, Christian, Islamic, Shamanic, Occult, "New Age", Integral... As long as you are up for a good time, you're welcome to discuss your path.

[steve]

I like the freedom of posting on and off topic. I'd be bored with strictly Daoism discussion - even if we could agree on what that means. Sometimes, a particular topic gets discussed to death and I just tune out if it doesn't interest me.

 

I think that keeping the discussion unpredictable, lively, and organic through more freedom is much more in keeping with my interpretation of the Daoist spirit than it would be to restrict or try and direct the discussion. The forum isn't so much about the subject of Daoism as it is a group of people leaning in a Daoist direction hanging out together. At least that's how it appears.

 

Furthermore, I've learned nearly as much about what Daoism means from Indian, Japanese, English, and American sources (most not writing or speaking on the subject of Daoism at all) as from Chinese (Daoist) sources and practices. That sounds ridiculous (and I may be) but it's the truth.

 

Daoism is not contained within the word, concept, culture, or belief system. The word is NOT the thing. This is why the inner cultivation aspect is so critical. Daoism goes way beyond the concepts and ideas (which are thoughts) and can be found in absolutely everything.

[wudangspirit]

Point taken however my intention was to bring across the point that some of the older practices have been discussed and taken out of context and made into "new" ways of practice. Those new ways may harm people because they do not know the full intention of the practice of the origin.

 

Wudangspirit

 

Sure. This forum is not for discussing Daoism only.

[steve]

Point taken however my intention was to bring across the point that some of the older practices have been discussed and taken out of context and made into "new" ways of practice. Those new ways may harm people because they do not know the full intention of the practice of the origin.

 

Wudangspirit

You are correct. In terms of the cultivation practices I would guess that only a small percentage of the members of this forum train in traditional systems with supervision by experienced teachers.

[wudangspirit]

Okay Okay Okay....

 

You all have good points. My intention isn't to change the forum because I do think it is great. However, I just think that people should really check out what they're getting themselves into and check out the lineages and history on what they're doing.

 

Just concerned about our fellow Tao Bums! There are a lot of Charlatans out there that will get a lot of false histories and partial systems and make up their own and tie it into a certain sect or practice. This can be dangerous.

 

My suggestion is to really do the research on these people and practices.

 

Wudangspirit

 

 

 

You are correct. In terms of the cultivation practices I would guess that only a small percentage of the members of this forum train in traditional systems with supervision by experienced teachers.