dawei

[DDJ Meaning] Chapter 16

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Constancy , is their way of saying its dependable.

 For instance , we have natural laws like gravity , which never fail , and therefore they are constant.

 If one made an argument and it held true , no-matter what conditions were used to test it out , they would say that its constant.

 In western cross examination of a process for testing where we look for 'holes' in the argument.

They are saying that there are no holes in the argument so it is  constant . So ...

The  Wisdom of Dao  is eternal , and objective , not transient or subjective. 

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Discussions of the technical or presumed or conceptual meaning of these things is not really what spirituality is about.   That is just taking the mind for a walk.
To enter the state from where you see what Laozi then you have to enter the same awakened state as his.
Otherwise it is just mind fluff that will not last, the mind plays with many ideas, whilst the being does not know.
Looking at this picture we see Laozi, how he sits and melts into the Earth - from the Dantien.
In meditating this way not only do you see the things described in the TTC, but you also develop that centre and its features - energy, hence the Taoists have additionally cultivated energy practices.

There are people who do not understand the difference and chat in the mind until they die, but never step foot into the right state.

 

 

Laozi_sitting_posture_11_-_Laozi.jpg

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5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Discussions of the technical or presumed or conceptual meaning of these things is not really what spirituality is about.   That is just taking the mind for a walk.
To enter the state from where you see what Laozi then you have to enter the same awakened state as his.
Otherwise it is just mind fluff that will not last, the mind plays with many ideas, whilst the being does not know.
Looking at this picture we see Laozi, how he sits and melts into the Earth - from the Dantien.
In meditating this way not only do you see the things described in the TTC, but you also develop that centre and its features - energy, hence the Taoists have additionally cultivated energy practices.

There are people who do not understand the difference and chat in the mind until they die, but never step foot into the right state.

 

 

 

Perhaps , but there has long been an understood dichotomy between Daojia and daojiao. To me, the fluff is suggesting people need to learn how to melt , by osmosis. 

Edited by Stosh

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Neither religious understanding nor conceptual understanding .... involves changing state.   

Those two are all nonsense.  More nonsense is imagining that people don't need to change.
Spirituality for most it would seem ... is simply a further entertainment while waiting to die.

And the entertainment is highly guarded, it is safe and gives one the feeling of doing something, whilst doing nothing.

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2 hours ago, rideforever said:

Neither religious understanding nor conceptual understanding .... involves changing state.   

Those two are all nonsense.  More nonsense is imagining that people don't need to change.
Spirituality for most it would seem ... is simply a further entertainment while waiting to die.

And the entertainment is highly guarded, it is safe and gives one the feeling of doing something, whilst doing nothing.

What in contrast, is doing something? Changing? to what?

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39 minutes ago, Stosh said:

What in contrast, is doing something? Changing? to what?

For most people, nothing.  They neither arrive, nor do they depart.
The only thing that happens to them is pride in ignorance.

 

 

Edited by rideforever

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1 minute ago, rideforever said:

For most people, nothing.  They neither arrive, nor do they depart.
The only thing that happens to them is pride in ignorance.

 

 

If you forgive my bluntness, I don't care about these others right now, I'm just talking with you, Do you need a constant fix of change ? is this 'good' .... I don't think its the eastern view that the real desire is to be at unrest all the time , it is to find real peace. Virtue being , to find rest even as one proceeds through a life. While you do not have to abide by that perspective , I thought it should be delineated. 

Do you want peace ? balance , dynamic equilibrium? or constant change, which if ending at perfection, immediately disintegrates, once you find it.

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23 minutes ago, Stosh said:

I thought it should be delineated. 

 

Your understanding of peace as you describe it here is not that of the TTC, it is of society. 
Society is either busy or withdrawn.   But is all contained within its ignorance. 

Neither business or withdrawal from society demands anything of you at all.
TTC points to a different world, and from that different world different things are seen.

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3 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Your understanding of peace as you describe it here is not that of the TTC, it is of society. 
Society is either busy or withdrawn.   But is all contained within its ignorance. 

Neither business or withdrawal from society demands anything of you at all.
TTC points to a different world, and from that different world different things are seen.

Ok, then what is your idea of peace according to TTC ? 

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In society people are busy or they are calm.
But neither of these is what the TTC or spirituality in general is about.

If you read the word constancy and you try to pick out society something that seems calm ... well that's not what it means.

TTC is written by a being in a state of self-realisation.
Spiritual peace, or in this case constancy, is only possible by a complete change in your being, which is what spirituality is about.

 

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15 hours ago, rideforever said:


Spiritual peace, or in this case constancy,, which is what spirituality is about.

 

This part I can run with , but one cannot do a complete change of their being,  according to TTC you have a basic nature .. um (the term might ziran or po , I don't speak Chinese)

One might be very screwed up , and need a significant overhaul to get in touch with themselves and connect to the world around,, but there is , in each of us a core. 

 

Edited by Stosh
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Yes there is, and the taoist way is to go through nature as a gateway into the internal, from 5 elements, to yin-yang, to the one, to the abyss.  Outward cultivation is only preliminary until you merge with that stage of manifestation, and from their return inwards.
But anyway, people tend to end up in their heads with words, that's my point.

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1 minute ago, rideforever said:

Yes there is, and the taoist way is to go through nature as a gateway into the internal, from 5 elements, to yin-yang, to the one, to the abyss.  Outward cultivation is only preliminary until you merge with that stage of manifestation, and from their return inwards.
But anyway, people tend to end up in their heads with words, that's my point.

Ok , then we can agree on that, good. :) 

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