manitou

A bold voice in Baltimore

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This morning after last night's riots, CNN interviewed one of the community leaders, a black minister named Jamal somebody, who has organized adults in the community to stand between the kids throwing rocks and the cops (or the businesses). His intent is to organize the cool-headed people to police their own kids; he's also the one that has gotten the Crypts and the Bloods to sign a peace treaty and be a part of this effort (we'll see how that one works out!)

 

But what I found most interesting is that he has the idea to heal his community through the 12 step process! It is a miracle worker for people, but for an entire community? Wow! He spoke this morning of the first step, admitting that there's a problem to be healed. Not sure exactly what problem he was specifically referring to - surely it's more than just the actions of the kids last night. But I love his intent.

 

The next step, once the first has been fully understood and defined, would be to realize that there is a 'power greater than themselves' that can restore them to sanity.

 

I don't know if this will work on a communal basis - he has to find a way to make these steps intensely personal for the citizens involved - but I love the fact that, despite the horrible treatment young black men get in general, and the disrespect they often get from some police types (I'm qualified to say this as that's my background) - that he sees that merely 'placing blame' on everyone else may feel good at the moment but does very little to change the system from within.

 

I think it would be wonderful if this would catch on all over Baltimore. The amends process back and forth, the acknowledging and forgiving of wrongs..... I think this fellow may be on to something.

 

It sure seems better than continual brute force, if you ask me.

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Yes, there is a problem that needs to be fixed.  I wish Jamal the power of success.

 

Sad thing though is that those who have the power to fix the problem won't admit there is a problem deeper than the riots.

 

Somebody broke the guy's spine and didn't get him any medical aid.

 

So deeply rooted is our problem becoming here in the USA.  Sad when the law can't be trusted.

Edited by Marblehead

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I just saw him on TV again - he's Rev. Jamal Wright, one of the local ministers.

 

Re: the idea of something like the 12 steps. If I were the mayor of any city that had racial disparity and such problems, I would seriously consider trying to find a central meeting place where willing people of all persuasions were willing to participate. And then take the 12 steps, one at a time, one week at a time, or longer as needed. The steps would have to certainly be modified to suit the needs of the community problem, as opposed to a substance problem.

 

The Steps involve uncovering the problem, 'turning the problem over' to a Greater Power (this just gives people the sense that there is something other than their own brain (which there is!) which will guide them to the solution. The steps involve going within; all communities - white, black, brown, yellow - would have to find their own part in the problem, or their own habit of propagating the problem, and admit that it's there, as Marbles said.

 

But the real interesting part of the steps would be the 'making amends' aspects of it. Could not the discussions get deep enough to include ancestral guilt and ancestral bad actions? How in the world would the white community make ancestral amends to the black community without some sort of restitution? And the black community - is it not time for them to open their wings and fly? To leave behind their resentment over their ancestral situation (and the wonderful way they've been treated ever since the original kidnappings and bondages) - and to forgive, down deep in their souls, their initial captors?

 

Rev. Jamal Wright didn't say anything beyond mentioning the 1st Step in his interview. I don't know whether he actually plans something along these lines, but I hope he expands on that thought and approaches the mayor about trying something like that.

 

Does anyone have any better ideas for healing our racial problems? Shouldn't we try something novel, rather than just more force?

 

In defense of some PD's, they do go a long way in their efforts of community policing and getting to know the citizens of their city on a very personal basis. There are ongoing discussions in many cities about citizen-assisted policing, and it works very well in some places. I don't know if Baltimore never got to doing this, or whether it broke down.

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organized adults in the community to stand between the kids throwing rocks and the cops (or the businesses). His intent is to organize the cool-headed people to police their own kids

You mean like 2 good, responsible parents?  Although a good band-aid, the minister's plan is only after-the-fact crisis control and an unsustainable substitute for regular parental supervision that should have been there ~"24/7" to prevent such acting out to begin with!

 

There will simply never be enough "community resources, government workers and volunteers" to replace 1 or 2 good missing parents in each home.  (Unless you want to bankrupt a nation and enslave it in massive debt to its fractional banking cabals, that is!) :ninja:

Seventy-two percent of black babies are born to unmarried mothers today, according to government statistics.

The black community's 72 percent rate eclipses that of most other groups: 17 percent of Asians, 29 percent of whites, 53 percent of Hispanics and 66 percent of Native Americans were born to unwed mothers in 2008, the most recent year for which government figures are available. The rate for the overall U.S. population was 41 percent.

This issue entered the public consciousness in 1965, when a now famous government report by future senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan described a "tangle of pathology" among blacks that fed a 24 percent black "illegitimacy" rate. The white rate then was 4 percent.

Many accused Moynihan, who was white, of "blaming the victim:"

Even in black churches, "nobody talks about it," Carroll says. "It's like some big secret."

a famous study conducted almost 50 years ago by the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Moynihan often reeled off the dire statistics:

"About a quarter of Negro families are headed by women. The divorce rate is about 2 1/2 times what it is [compared with whites]," Moynihan said. "The number of fatherless children keeps growing. And all these things keep getting worse, not better, over recent years."

the refusal to grapple seriously‚ÄĒeither at the time or in the months, years, even decades to come‚ÄĒwith the basic cultural insight contained in the report: that ghetto families were at risk of raising generations of children unable to seize the opportunity that the civil rights movement had opened up for them. Instead, critics changed the subject, accusing Moynihan‚ÄĒwrongfully, as any honest reading of ‚ÄúThe Negro Family‚ÄĚ proves‚ÄĒof ignoring joblessness and discrimination. Family instability is a ‚Äúperipheral issue,‚ÄĚ warned Whitney Young, executive director of the National Urban League. ‚ÄúThe problem is discrimination.‚ÄĚ

Other black pride‚Äďinspired scholars looked at female-headed families and declared them authentically African and therefore a good thing.

a 1974 HEW-funded study of families in a midwestern ghetto with many multigenerational female households. In an implicit criticism of American individualism, Stack depicted ‚ÄúThe Flats,‚ÄĚ as she dubbed her setting, as a vibrant and cooperative urban village, where mutual aid‚ÄĒincluding from sons, brothers, and uncles, who provided financial support and strong role models for children‚ÄĒcreated ‚Äúa tenacious, active, lifelong network.‚ÄĚ

In fact, some scholars continued, maybe the nuclear family was really just a toxic white hang-up, anyway.

Convinced that marriage was the main arena of male privilege, feminists projected onto the struggling single mother an image of the ‚Äústrong black woman‚ÄĚ who had always had to work and who was ‚Äúsuperior in terms of [her] ability to function healthily in the world,‚ÄĚ as Toni Morrison put it. The lucky black single mother could also enjoy more equal relationships with men than her miserably married white sisters.

Six of every 10 Kenyan women are likely to be single mothers by the time they reach 45, one of the highest rates for single-parent families in Africa.

Does anyone have any better ideas for healing our racial problems? Shouldn't we try something novel, rather than just more force?

Well, 12 Steps would be great because it promotes self-accountability and responsibility - a radical shift from the Baby Boomer's decades of Victim Mentality-based social activism.  Which has largely reinforced and enabled the whole Karpman Drama Triangle.  But problem is, people have to be ready to stop blaming everyone else and decide to relinquish the secondary motivations for assuming their own roles...

Karpman-Drama-Triangle-How-to-STOP-the-D

And, I think more Eastern-style "self-inquiry" is probably even more efficient with far less dogmatic baggage...for those people "wise" enough to be able to employ it.

(Watch from

for real-time resolution of the exact same issue here - proving how powerfully this actually works!) Edited by gendao

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I'm interested in experimenting with anything that'll work.  But.. isn't the first rule of the 12 Step program that the person has to choose it.  Without strong buy in it might not work.  Still if you had the right people running it, maybe. 

 

There is a riot mentality going on.  And its may cause more secrecy rather then openness, ie rather then risk the death and destruction of riots people will go to greater lengths to cover up incidents. 

 

While reform and transparency are the best way forward they're not going to happen over night and in a country of 300 + million there will always be incidents, some outrageous, some justified. 

 

Between Incident and riot something has to be done. In Chicago they use the carrot and stick method.  Immediately have places to protest, planned and centralized with reputable speakers leading.  And there's a stick, large police presence with extra large paddy wagons that funnel protesters in unauthorized areas to be arrested and processed.   No brutality, but quick arrest and transport to stop the worst before they begin.  Most arrestees being released in a few hours under there own cognizance. 

 

So you can protest and give speeches in a few large areas, or face mild case of arrest, or if you're caught doing a crime, you're arrested for it.  Its not a great system, but everyone suffers during riots.  Better to have places, several of them, for meeting, for marches, speeches by activists, politicians and the police. 

 

There are so many riots and potentiall ones that these contingency plans have to be in place, and practiced, before incidents occur.  Leaders on all sides have to be on call and spring into action before it gets out of hand.  Again this is an imperfect compromise, between free speech and protecting the public from hooliganism. 

 

The media has an important part to play too.  Maybe the most important.  To see news of peaceful protests gets out.  Cover the initial event and protests accurately and very importantly to keep all sides honest.  Afterwards keep reporting on what reforms are passing and being enforced. 

Edited by thelerner

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I sent a letter to both the Mayor of Baltimore and the Reverend - I sent it in letter form with the topic line circled in yellow -" THE 12 STEPS FOR HEALING A COMMUNITY?"

 

Wish I had the computer skills to merely take the letter off my computer and post it, but I don't.  So I'm retyping it here?

 

 

Rev. Bryant, I heard you mention the 1st step this morning on the news.  Wow!  Do you think there is a way to expand the healing miracle of the 12 steps to a community?

 

I write this as a recovering alcoholic (thru AA) for 34 years now.  I am also a retired detective from the LAPD and I know how cop gang mentality works.

 

 

Step 1:   "I am powerless over fear of difference (or racism, if you'd rather) and my life is unmanageable".

 

This is where racism begins.  Fear of difference, that's all.  It's hardwired into our DNA.  As gentle and spiritual a person as I like to think I am, when I walk around a corner and see someone of a different skin color, there is just a tiny flash of surprise - not fear, just surprise.  And then I transcend it.  It's a process that takes only an instant.  We can all learn it.  And if we ACKNOWLEDGE that it's hardwired, it won't be so hard for people to admit that they have this same fear of difference, or racism, inside of us to some degree.  Pres. Obama alluded to this very thing in a speech about a month ago.

 

If I were a Baltimore leader, I would try and get together a committed group of citizens from all communities, including police, in Baltimore, to meet once a week somewhere large enough to accommodate but small enough to be intimate.  To perhaps discuss that 1st Step the first week.  Maybe it will take longer than one week.  But a step a week could be discussed, shouted, cried - whatever it takes.

 

The interesting part, of course, would be the 'communal personal inventory' of step 4, wherein we all figure out what debris lays on our side of the street, and realize that it's our responsibility to keep our side of the street swept clean.  This would be the step in which people take responsibility for their own judgments, etc., and realize that they're there.

 

When it comes to the Amends of Step 7, there would seem to be a lot of room for creativity here.  We are dealing with our DNA - the ancestral guilt contained within, particularly on the Caucasian side.  I was horrified to realize that one of my ancestors was a slave-ship builder in Massachusetts in 1700 - and today, the way I live with that is to give $200 a month to the 2nd Baptist Church in town, attend services periodically to get to know the lovely people there.  I think, because of the DNA thing, the Caucasian populous must 'know' within their psyche, that there is due some payback, some karma, from the harms done in the past.  Heck, required reading for us in the '50s at my high school was "The Confessions of Nat Turner".  Talk about terrifying, and yet there is a whole generation of folks like me who had to read that book as a requirement.

 

I don't think this subconscious fear of retaliation can be resolved within white people unless there is a form of restitution offered, as a purgative to white souls; and until the fear of retaliation is removed from the subconscious, the white cops will always be true to their initial DNA response, unless very well trained.  And economics being what they are in cities today, I don't think the cops are very well trained at all.

 

The type of restitution that could be offered could only possibly be a small token for the harm that has been done to an entire race of people.  But perhaps Baltimore could be the first city to try something different, and to consider the restitution principle.  Is it possible that this could spread throughout the country?

 

Truly, only God can truly show us the way, if we let him guide our thoughts and actions.  Best wishes to all.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

Okay, so this letter will probably be trashed as soon as it gets there - but it's a possible answer to righting an awful lot of wrongs.  All I'm trying to do is plant a small seed.  You never know....

Edited by manitou
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In defense of some PD's, they do go a long way in their efforts of community policing and getting to know the citizens of their city on a very personal basis. There are ongoing discussions in many cities about citizen-assisted policing, and it works very well in some places. I don't know if Baltimore never got to doing this, or whether it broke down.

I will speak to this because even I sometimes make generalized statements. and I think it is wrong to do so.

 

Yes, there are many PD's that do a great job for their communities.  And you never hear anything about the use of excessive force.  They do follow the motto "To Protect And Serve".

 

But there are others, with extremely powerful unions, that police their districts as if it were a "police state", where "the law" is always right, even when it is wrong.  And abuse is covered up so that no one ever hears about it.

 

Thing is, when abuse, excessive force, is covered up it is being implied that it is okay to use excessive force, just don't get caught.

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Before implementing spiritually oriented 12 step programs, the family structure needs to come together, for the family structure to come together (ie for fathers to stick around and remain alive and out of prison) there needs to be jobs readily available, but look...no manufacturing, no call centers, all moved to Asia - and all the small businesses are run by Koreans (nail salons) and Arabs (liquor stores), so really there is nothing available for a family on the bottom of the ladder regardless of race, hence, the black and poor families in America will remain fractured simply because there is NO job infrastructure, no stability.

 

But thank God no one was killed during the riots, which is actually pretty impressive on both sides of the aisle.

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Don't even get me started on police unions.  I used to be an LAPD union rep for my division, and the only consideration for the unions are the protection of the cops, in any form.  Now in some jurisdictions there is a 'police officers bill of rights' that disallows them being questioned about the occurrence for 10 days?  That's the total end of accountability - no speaking to Internal Affairs, no being questioned by supervisors about the incident.  Nothing.  Just your union rep and your attorney, that's all you talk to.  And your union rep will now sit with you as your mouthpiece as a departmental proceeding is brought against you, and you never need to speak a word at all.  Accountability?  Puh.

 

And, oddly enough, this system did spring up for the right reasons at the time.  There was a time when the policeman or woman at the  lower end of the ladder had no voice whatsoever in how much they were paid, no pension system to speak of, and no advocate within the system to help with police-related legal problems.  Now they do.  But like so many other labor unions, they get a little too big for their britches.  The LAPD labor unions today no longer act like cops - they no longer work at cop assignments, some of them.  A few are full-time lobbyists to represent 'police interests' in Sacramento.  And boy, are these a flashy bunch of dandies (which expression I know really makes me sound like an old fart).

 

This good old boy's system is so deeply ingrained in this nation.  It honestly feels, in this Baltimore thing, as of tonight that there is a special something happening from within in the community.  The good men of the community are coming out to the streets.  Mama whipped the bejesus out of that kid last night in front of the whole world.  Even the Cryps and the Bloods, it seems, truly have come together to some degree to protect the other businesses in town.  I just heard one gang member interviewed, and I was rather astounded at how positive his attitude was, how he put out a plea to Cryps and Bloods across the nation to come together and fix their communities from within; that 'we need each other now'.

 

There is a silver lining to this cloud, shimmering way in the distance.  Mr. Shimmer Man, Marbles  ;)

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Before implementing spiritually oriented 12 step programs, the family structure needs to come together, for the family structure to come together (ie for fathers to stick around and remain alive and out of prison) there needs to be jobs readily available, but look...no manufacturing, no call centers, all moved to Asia - and all the small businesses are run by Koreans (nail salons) and Arabs (liquor stores), so really there is nothing available for a family on the bottom of the ladder regardless of race, hence, the black and poor families in America will remain fractured simply because there is NO job infrastructure, no stability.

 

But thank God no one was killed during the riots, which is actually pretty impressive on both sides of the aisle.

 

I'm guessing you're not a 12 stepper. One doesn't have to stop drinking to be allowed to attend meetings.

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I'm guessing you're not a 12 stepper. One doesn't have to stop drinking to be allowed to attend meetings.

 

I'm sorry how is that realted to my post?

 

I don't know if I am interpreting you correctly, but what I am saying is that I just dont see a reverend implementing this program will make much of an impact, the problem starts in every household, mainly with the lack of father figures and trickles out into the streets, the problem is much bigger! Of course the police do not make matters any better, I too was a victim of police brutality back in the late 90s, I know 'how they get down' - and how the DA and everyone else in the court system turns a shoulder.

 

With that being said, it is a great first step and I commend him for his effort, releasing the victim mentality and taking full responsibilty is a great first step.

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The problems are racism, low paying jobs, poverty, so called trickle down economics, neoliberalism, income inequality, poor education and so forth for starters. African Americans have been marginalized by this nation!

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I'm sorry how is that realted to my post?

 

I don't know if I am interpreting you correctly, but what I am saying is that I just dont see a reverend implementing this program will make much of an impact, the problem starts in every household, mainly with the lack of father figures and trickles out into the streets, the problem is much bigger! Of course the police do not make matters any better, I too was a victim of police brutality back in the late 90s, I know 'how they get down' - and how the DA and everyone else in the court system turns a shoulder.

 

With that being said, it is a great first step and I commend him for his effort, releasing the victim mentality and taking full responsibilty is a great first step.

 

If things are as you say, then things truly have no hope and everybody might as well use force.

 

The analogy of a recovery program in this sense, is that when I said that an alcoholic doesn't need to actually stop drinking before he starts attending meetings, is that most folks walk into those rooms still tippling, at the very least. Funnily enough, it seems like about 80 percent stay permanently (or as least as long as it takes to totally change your character around to the positive from the negative or the cynical; we do learn in those rooms that attitude is completely a choice we get to live with from day to day).

 

How this pertains to this particular discussion, is that you have put an infinity of qualifiers on 'what has to happen next' in order for there to be healing in Baltimore. Fathers must come home....mothers must stay home with their children - it almost paints a picture of what white America looked like in the 1950's. I don't think it's realistic to return to a more bucolic period of time, as hard as we may wish. But I do think that we can start with Today. I don't think all the qualifiers must be met first, just as an alcoholic doesn't have to stop drinking to get through the doors.

 

It starts with merely admitting the problem. I Am An Alcoholic. Or in the case of people who live in blighted areas, I Am A Citizen. I Deserve Job Skills. I will Learn To Love My Brother As Myself, Regardless Of His Color. I Will Work for More Representative Police Activity, people who look like Us, in our Community. There are any number of different ways that inroads can be made; and who are we to say that any particular inroad couldn't just go all the way to the heart of the city, and change hearts and minds of people who live there? For kindness to prevail, if people of good will will work one day at a time toward this purpose.

 

I just think pessimism or cynicism is always part of the problem. Always. It may feel fashionable or educated to feel this way, but in reality it's the easiest thing in the world to fall into, and it's for people of lesser understanding than us Bums, in my opinion.

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The problems are racism, low paying jobs, poverty, so called trickle down economics, neoliberalism, income inequality, poor education and so forth for starters. African Americans have been marginalized by this nation!

Hello, old friend. Haven't seen you in a while.

 

I couldn't agree more with everything you've said on this issue. You've obviously given this a lot of serious thought, as I have. And as I said earlier (maybe on this thread, maybe not), our white ancestors haven't treated our black ancestors well since we kidnapped them off their continent. Then, when finally freed, were barely tolerated and little thought on a national level was given to bring them as a society up to speed in education or certainly in the area of respect. We have disrespected, ignored, gotten used to the status quo. It's funny how it makes my heart sing when I see black people in positions of responsibility, people who truly reflect the Content of Character that Dr. King would speak of. I feel a pride for them like no other, because I know how hard they worked to overcome the cynicism they must have heard from peers daily - particularly if they have arisen from blight.

 

And on the other hand, in the totally opposite vein, I just witnessed one of the most beautiful pieces of police work I've ever seen. It's 11PM right now, and the police just cleared the town for the curfew. It was poetry in motion. It was Sun Tzu's Art of War. They Did by Not Doing. Wei Wu Wei. I understand that there is much collusion between the female black mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, and the police commissioner as to how to coordinate this. I just wonder if the fact that a female had input in this particular case, that the ego was more contained. I say this only as a generality about men and women in particular, and I think some would agree. Men tend to be ruled by their, um, ego. Women tend to be a little more emotional perhaps, but ego doesn't seem to blind most of them as much as it does the men. Maybe I'm being too general here, that's only been my experience within the police community. Maybe that doesn't apply to departments around the nation, but my guess is that it would.

 

For example, men resisted greatly the idea of women becoming unisex officers, back in the 1970's. In fact, we had to sue the City for it. But listen to just about any man on a large police department today (I don't know so much about the smaller ones - they're still pretty Good Old Boy in many places), men officers have found and seen for themselves that women will diffuse a situation in a totally different way (as long as they're not trying to imitate their male counterparts - some do, unfortunately). Women are no longer resisted like they used to be; in fact, they're becoming greatly respected for their innate ability to multi-task, to relieve tension from a situation. Granted, a small woman in a hand to hand combat situation might not be as effective as her larger male counterpart, but I think most everyone would agree that the goods outweigh the bads in this equation.

 

At any rate, I'm really feeling pride for the mature citizens of Northeast Baltimore. May this spirit of healing and conciliation gradually make it's way throughout the whole city, from the inside out, One Day at a Time. It is this magic, this sudden mysterious change of heart that we as Bums have experienced many times in our own lives, that can happen with the involved people of Baltimore.

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Hi Manitou, I'm not white, so i dont have that guilt, neither do i know what white america was like in the 50s, i was born 30 years after the fact lol, but im sure they (white americans in the 50s) had their own problems as we all do.

 

As a man, what I do KNOW, is having a father figures is tremendously important for young men, nothing has to be perfect, like a leave it to beaver wonder bread family, BUT regardless how forward thinking you may be, as a MAN i cannot stress how important having the dad around is and until that issue is addressed, i do see a very hopeless situation indeed. Just my 2. God bless.

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Before implementing spiritually oriented 12 step programs, the family structure needs to come together, for the family structure to come together (ie for fathers to stick around and remain alive and out of prison) there needs to be jobs readily available, but look...no manufacturing, no call centers, all moved to Asia - and all the small businesses are run by Koreans (nail salons) and Arabs (liquor stores), so really there is nothing available for a family on the bottom of the ladder regardless of race

LMAO - so basically you are saying that there are no jobs available for low SES families "regardless of race"...except for mainland Asians & poor Korean and Arab ESL immigrants (qualified SPECIFICALLY by race)? :lol::wacko:

 

BTW, you do realize that those are small businesses started by themselves, not jobs from employers?  Which means, they were actually job CREATORS, not "TAKERS."

 

Whereas someone without such an indoctrinated racial victim mentality might instead perceive it as - if impoverished minority Asians and Asian ESL immigrants can find available jobs here, class mobility and form stable families...then why can't ANY native-born American?

Fathers must come home....mothers must stay home with their children - it almost paints a picture of what white America looked like in the 1950's. I don't think it's realistic to return to a more bucolic period of time, as hard as we may wish.

Actually, such gender role division is naturally-evolved, which is why it has worked better (more efficiently) than other arrangements over time.  I think men should help out whenever possible, but men can't give birth and breastfeed by nature.  And when you "progressively" rebel against Nature (very anti-Daoist)...you will generally suffer some consequences, especially in the long run...

 

Single mothers are generally not self-sustaining.  Nor can they replace an actual loving real FATHER.  So, they usually end up relying far more on outside help from taxpayers and/or extended family.  While still leaving a big gaping emotional hole in the family/child - that often gets filled with addictions later, if not good therapy.  Thus, in large numbers, they inevitably form sociopathological ghettos.  See Detroit, Baltimore, Rust Belt, etc...

 

Yet the funny thing is how many Baby Boomers who (pretend to) hate their fathers define anything anti-natural as "progressive?"  Replacing the "oppressive" 2-parent family with "liberated" single baby mamas "who don't need no man (except Uncle Sam)" = YOU GO STRONG GIRL!!! :rolleyes:

And on the other hand, in the totally opposite vein, I just witnessed one of the most beautiful pieces of police work I've ever seen. It's 11PM right now, and the police just cleared the town for the curfew. It was poetry in motion. It was Sun Tzu's Art of War. They Did by Not Doing. Wei Wu Wei. I understand that there is much collusion between the female black mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, and the police commissioner as to how to coordinate this.

WTF LMFAO - the Black female mayor actually "helped" incite the civic destruction...and it took the White male GOVERNOR to call in the NATIONAL GUARD to implement the curfew!!!

...Are we all living on the same planet??? :blink:

Edited by gendao
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LMAO - so basically you are saying that there are no jobs available for low SES families "regardless of race"...except for mainland Asians & poor Korean and Arab ESL immigrants (qualified SPECIFICALLY by race)? :lol::wacko:

 

BTW, you do realize that those are small businesses started by themselves, not jobs from employers?  Which means, they were actually job CREATORS, not "TAKERS."

 

Whereas someone without such an indoctrinated racial victim mentality might instead perceive it as - if impoverished minority Asians and Asian ESL immigrants can find available jobs here, class mobility and form stable families...then why can't ANY native-born American?

Actually, such gender role division is naturally-evolved, which is why it has worked better (more efficiently) than other arrangements over time.  I think men should help out whenever possible, but men can't give birth and breastfeed by nature.  And when you "progressively" rebel against Nature (very anti-Daoist)...you will generally suffer some consequences, especially in the long run...

 

Single mothers are generally not self-sustaining.  Nor can they replace an actual loving real FATHER.  So, they usually end up relying far more on outside help from taxpayers and/or extended family.  While still leaving a big gaping emotional hole in the family/child - that often gets filled with addictions later, if not good therapy.  Thus, in large numbers, they inevitably form sociopathological ghettos.  See Detroit, Baltimore, Rust Belt, etc...

 

Yet the funny thing is how many Baby Boomers who (pretend to) hate their fathers define anything anti-natural as "progressive?"  Replacing the "oppressive" 2-parent family with "liberated" single baby mamas "who don't need no man (except Uncle Sam)" = YOU GO STRONG GIRL!!! :rolleyes:

WTF LMFAO - the Black female mayor actually "helped" incite the civic destruction...and it took the White male GOVERNOR to call in the NATIONAL GUARD to implement the curfew!!!

...Are we all living on the same planet??? :blink:

 

Hi Gendao, a bit of a linguistic snafu on my point, just to clarify, 'regardless of race,' meaning dirt poor white Americans (Appalachian communities I believe are the per capita poorest in the country) will have an equally hard time getting an entry level manufacturing position or sales position as multi-generational black Americans as compared to 50 years ago - I myself am first generation american - my father literally worked 5 or so jobs, in addition to shcool, when he first arrived here but he also readily admits it would not be as easy now.

 

And of course I realize these small businesses are created by the immigrants (Arabs, Koreans, Viets, Indians) with very little to NO government assitance and I also realize what hard work goes into those businesses and that there is a tremendous focus on education, family values, saving money, discipline, religion, tradition, the value of EXTENDED FAMILY, et al, in all of these ethnic groups; really things that are severely lacking in American culture in general again (these are the qualities that most likely account for the success of immigrant populations and all Americans sitting on their laurels can readily learn from these fresh populations), - please note I NEVER SAID ANYONE WAS A TAKER, please re-read the post. Thanks for pointing out the snafu it is laughable when i re-read  ;D

 

edit - i believe i also inadvertly answered your question, 'why cant any native born americans.' :)

Edited by noonespecial
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There is a silver lining to this cloud, shimmering way in the distance.  Mr. Shimmer Man, Marbles  ;)

True.  Reasons for optimism exist.  Time will tell if they repair the roots or just rake up the leaves.

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But be happy people.  Afterall, the wealthy in America are becoming wealthier.  There must not be a real problem.  It must all be a figment of our imagination.

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Yet the funny thing is how many Baby Boomers who (pretend to) hate their fathers define anything anti-natural as "progressive?"  Replacing the "oppressive" 2-parent family with "liberated" single baby mamas "who don't need no man (except Uncle Sam)" = YOU GO STRONG GIRL!!! :rolleyes:

WTF LMFAO - the Black female mayor actually "helped" incite the civic destruction...and it took the White male GOVERNOR to call in the NATIONAL GUARD to implement the curfew!!!

...Are we all living on the same planet??? :blink:

 

I'm not sure rolling one's eyes at a You Go Strong Girl single mother is the best way to handle things either. We can't go back and make a segment of society something it isn't at this point, or pretend that the fathers of the fatherless children will suddenly see the light and go back home and be a father such as yourself.

 

This change must come from the inside out, starting with the kids today. The most unlikely connections, such as the gangs joining together to prevent destruction (amazingly!), and those brave men who came out and hollered at the youth is what is needed right now. Wu wei will make its way into this situation if there are enough people willing to be patient and let matters take their course - which they will, because as we all know there is a dynamic of beautiful Order under everything. It's just a matter of handling it at a minimum right now - kind of like frying a small fish - doing the least that has to be done for protection. Let the kids get it out of them. it's been building up for too long for them to be able to consciously control it on a dime. The forces of balance will finally take its seat when the time is right. This much we can trust, because we trust the Dao.

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I'm not sure rolling one's eyes at a You Go Strong Girl single mother is the best way to handle things either. We can't go back and make a segment of society something it isn't at this point, or pretend that the fathers of the fatherless children will suddenly see the light and go back home and be a father such as yourself.

The eyeroll is for the warped modern counterculture inversion of a functional family - whose importance is even stressed in ancient teachings like the chakra system.

As a chakra of early development, the first chakra holds family dynamics. This is what gives us a sense of belonging within our ‚Äútribe,‚ÄĚ which consists of our family, close friends, and any group we feel connected to. Ancestral bonds also reside in the root chakra, as our ancestors have passed down their genes to become the very building blocks of our lives. Thus, our primordial relationships with family greatly influence our sense of security. This chakra can be thrown out of balance early in life if circumstances at home are unsafe. The root chakra also serves to set boundaries between ourselves and the members of our tribe, so that we can experience a healthy amount of give-and-take with our loved ones.

Despite what modern social anarchitects tell you, to be truly healthy as a human (and community), you need a healthy family unit/relations as a foundation. This is age-old wisdom encoded in our natural spiritual anatomy - and does not get overridden by modern social fads.

 

So, why shouldn't fathers be responsible parents - it's only natural? Humankind has been around for hundreds of thousands of years and most civilizations have had 2-parent families for centuries, millenia or more now. But all of a sudden now, that basic natural unit is no longer "possible?" :rolleyes:

 

And you do realize that a lot of healing does involve "going back" to resolve the initial trauma - not just "progressively" moving "forward?"

This change must come from the inside out, starting with the kids today. The most unlikely connections, such as the gangs joining together to prevent destruction (amazingly!), and those brave men who came out and hollered at the youth is what is needed right now.

That is good news, along with the mother disciplining her son... These kids need MORE tuff love, parental supervision & discipline...not less (enabling, guilt-ridden excuses)!

2815E80F00000578-3058476-image-m-67_1430

Of course, that was just a mere band-aid over the fact that she chose to have 6 kids presumably without a reliable father...

Toya Graham, a single mother-of-six, said she 'just lost it' when she saw her 16-year-old son Michael at Monday's riots carrying a rock

A small drop in the bucket...but still a great START! B) Edited by gendao
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The eyeroll is for the warped modern counterculture inversion of a functional family - whose importance is even stressed in ancient teachings like the chakra system.

Despite what modern social anarchitects tell you, to be truly healthy as a human (and community), you need a healthy family unit/relations as a foundation.  This is age-old wisdom encoded in our natural spiritual anatomy - and does not get overridden by modern social fads.

 

So, why shouldn't fathers be responsible parents - it's only natural?  Humankind has been around for hundreds of thousands of years and most civilizations have had 2-parent families for centuries, millenia or more now.  But all of a sudden now, that basic natural unit is no longer "possible?" :rolleyes:

 

And you do realize that a lot of healing does involve "going back" to resolve the initial trauma - not just "progressively" moving "forward?"

That is good news, along with the mother disciplining her son...  These kids need MORE tuff love, parental supervision & discipline...not less (enabling, guilt-ridden excuses)!

2815E80F00000578-3058476-image-m-67_1430

Of course, that was just a mere band-aid over the fact that she chose to have 6 kids presumably without a reliable father...

A small drop in the bucket...but still a great START! B)

 

As always you seem to have all the answers, which by the way are talking points from media propagandists such as Fox News and so forth. Have you ever been to an inner city where minorities have been marginalized to the extreme? Poverty, homelessness are the norm. What you are doing is blaming the victim who has almost no control whatsoever.

 

Birth control and reproductive education provided by the government would alleviate unwanted pregnancies. Here in the 21st century, that is frowned upon by right wing extremists and advocates of so called religious liberty.  

 

These problems are not isolated events, but are structural/endemic and are not separate from our society.

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