Herd Mind or Enlightenemnt?

[satsujin]

Beautiful question.

 

One I have often pondered but still found no resolute answer for. But what do I know? I am a trust fund baby living a sheltered existence with no challenges in life. I don't even need to cook or do laundry. I also experience a a lot of self-guilt and self-hate and only recently realized this. I am lucky to have the luxuries I have in life but still experience discontentment with my life because many times I feel no purpose to it. It only seems to fly by when I am involved in something that is offering me challenges to my mind. Ever since looking more into spirituality I have experienced general contentment with what I have now whether I feel a purpose or not but still frequently worry over hypothetical what-ifs of the future that I can't control. This is a weakness I am trying to overcome. But slowly.....hell, I have all the time in the world anyway.

Edited January 29, 2015 by satsujin

[Seeker of Wisdom]

"Imagine" dropping Buddhism which is what a Buddha does in the end...

 

'In the end' is the key part of your statement IMO. The idea is to use something useful, until it's no longer useful. I still find Buddhist principles useful, and will use them until they are holding me back. You telling me to drop Buddhism in a way that dismisses the content of my post is basically you implicitly telling me to not post from my own path. There's no need to be that way. If you don't find Buddhism useful, that's fine.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Seeker of Wisdom

[3bob]

'In the end' is the key part of your statement IMO. The idea is to use something useful, until it's no longer useful. I still find Buddhist principles useful, and will use them until they are holding me back. You telling me to drop Buddhism in a way that dismisses the content of my post is basically you implicitly telling me to not post from my own path. There's no need to be that way. If you don't find Buddhism useful, that's fine.

 

That's no problemo if its useful for you, but when presented or given the connotation as an over-riding truism refuting and dismissing all others then a problemo arises - there's no need to be way in our multi path general forum format...

Edited January 29, 2015 by 3bob

[thelerner]

From a far away perspective much of human behavior seems like herd mentality. Yet (imo) from close up when you get to know an individual, you see they are unique and have different ideas, hopes and dreams. Get to know someone intimately and quite often stereotypes break down.

[The Name]

So perhaps what we currently call enlightenment is simply an example of this herd mind element in the brain completely gaining control for a little while? I don't know. Just an idea that occured to me. Would love to hear your views.

 

Enlightenment means to develop the ability of consciously maintaining the executive functions of your brain at all times thus developing a fully rational aproach to reality, free from emotional and instinctive determinism.

 

So it is the opposite of what you describe, it is unattainable by 95 percent of humankind.

 

 

...

 

Also, when the character has rippened and you are freed from automatic behaviour you can fully acknowledge the fact that you are just an idea thus being freed from the ultimate form of fear, namely existential fear.

 

And the ease and inner might resultant from the actualization of conscious rational awareness also allows you to apply yourself towards working for a greater purpose.

 

Thus Enlightenment is the exact opposite of resignation.

Edited January 29, 2015 by The Name

[3bob]

Nope. I can wu wei all day long but that's not enlightenment, is it?

 

I can chop wood and carry water but supposedly that is what one does both before and after enlightenment.

 

First there was a mountain and all that but still, if you want to get to the other side you either have to walk over or around the mountain. The mountain will still be there even if you say there is no mountain.

 

To know when one has enough: Is that enlightenment?

 

In this format wu wei can wu wei as long as no "I"'s try to take over, and wu wei can easily chop wood and cross the mountain if no "I"'s try to take over, for Mr. or Ms. wu wei is enough.

Edited January 29, 2015 by 3bob

[blue eyed snake]

well, i think it doesn't make much sense to talk about enlightenment as most of us can know only story's of what it is supposed to be. There seems to be a lot of consistency in those story's and they come from different cultures.

 

It's like my little sonny...talking with a friend about physics, I've no idea who is right, but they do like it when I make tea for them.

 

the so-called herd-instinct though, i do have ideas about. Imo it's fear, and i seem to remember that psychology backs me up there. There have been some experiments and what people will do to belong to a group is atrocious. Sure, it is wanting to belong, but the reason for that wanting is fear to be alone, cut of from the group. Fear to be alone is deeply ingrained in human consciousness, just as the fear for bodily pains, the fear for death. Now i 'm writing this, I think, underlying these three is the fear of losing control. And even when you see through this mechanism, it's still there, ruling you

 

My two cents

 

as for enlightenment, the only thing i'm sure of I'm far from it and i don't think I yearn to tread that path

[3bob]

Not sure I understand what you are saying, 3Bob. Is it that the idea of purpose is an illusion that we can break free from?

 

me neither , although there is a time and purpose for everything under heaven or something close to that.

 

Btw, I seldom use the problematic word illusion since there are no real illusions even though such are often given the connotation as if it they were a real illusions...

[Seeker of Wisdom]

That's no problemo if its useful for you, but when presented or given the connotation as an over-riding truism refuting and dismissing all others then a problemo arises - there's no need to be way in our multi path general forum format...

Someone posts about self - I either don't care, or have a brief cordial discussion on my alternate perspective.

 

I post about no-self - you tell me to let go of my path and then, ironically, accuse me of being dismissive.

 

Proof I'm not presenting overriding truisms refuting and dismissing views opposing mine:

 

...Many people and traditions would describe [enlightenment] in terms of unity with everything or an absolute like God, but I see that as just another idea or experience, and I don't think there is any absolute, only interdependent processes. From my perspective, a significant part of awakening is letting go of all possible views of self - individual (I am this body/mind), transcendent (I am one with all), and clinging to the idea there is no self at all - though no-self is a nice shorthand term for this stuff.

 

So IMO if someone claims to be enlightened but says they are one with everything, they aren't enlightened (maybe partway there though) because they are still clinging to a transcendent view of self...

Edited January 29, 2015 by Seeker of Wisdom

[3bob]

Someone posts about self - I either don't care, or have a brief cordial discussion on my alternate perspective.

 

I post about no-self - you tell me to let go of my path and then, ironically, accuse me of being dismissive.

 

Proof I'm not presenting overriding truisms refuting and dismissing views opposing mine

 

it's, "may all beings be happy" imagine that...

Edited January 30, 2015 by 3bob

[Aetherous]

Almost every report of someone who claims to have achieved enlightenment ( or god-realization) is described the same way.

 

You'll encounter problems when getting definitions of spiritual terminology from newage sources...the ones who pervert the teachings. Best to avoid what they're saying entirely and seek out a reputable source.

[3bob]

thus try to get your info from the Atlantians who were before the new age Egyptians of around 2500 BC, better yet from the Lemurians who were before both, especially those new age Atlantians who perverted the teachings and sank Atlantis... (Cayce said so)

Edited January 30, 2015 by 3bob