Theocracy Movement In The U.S.

[ralis]

There are many examples of such intrusions and this is a threat to the separation of church and state. Steve Green the President of Hobby Lobby thinks kids should learn the impact of the bible on Western civilization in a four year elective course in public schools. He also states that in a future time the teaching of the bible should be mandated. Keep this out of the schools!

 

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/16/oklahoma-school-district-oks-bible-curriculum-created-by-hobby-lobby-president/

 

 

 

According to the Religious News Service, the “Museum of the Bible Curriculum” created by Hobby Lobby’s President Steve Green (pictured above) will be beta-tested in Oklahoma’s Mustang Public School district beginning in the Fall of 2014.

Green hopes the program — which will be overseen by Jerry Pattengale, head of the Green Scholars Initiative — will be placed in “hundreds” of high schools by 2016, and “thousands” by 2017. It is a four-year elective course in which students will study the narrative, history, and impact of the Bible on Western Civilization. Because the book is being taught within an academic purview, it does not violate the Establishment Clause of the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court in Abington School District v. Schempp.

“Nothing we have said here indicates that such study of the Bible,” the Court decided, “when presented objectively as part of a secular program of education, may not be effected consistently with the First Amendment.”

 

Statements

by Green when he received the 2013 Templeton Prize for Progress Toward Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities strongly suggest that the material in the Museum of the Bible Curriculum will neither be “presented objectively” nor “part of a secular program.”

In the speech, Green refers to the Bible as a “reliable historical document” that’s had a “great impact on the world,” but that people don’t understand that impact. “It’s our job to point that out,” Green said, “to show that whether it be our government, education, science, art, literature, family, on and on in every area of our life.”

“The goal is to show that the impact of this book, when we apply it to our lives, has been good, because it has. So it’s good, and it’s true,” Green said, before moving on to discuss the other section of the curriculum, which would be “the story of the Bible.”

“We’re as ignorant [as] we’ve ever been, would be my argument,” Green said, “because we aren’t teaching it in our schools.”

“That would be the goal,” he continued, “to reintroduce this book to this nation, because it is in danger, because of its ignorance, of what God has taught. There is [sic] lessons of the past that we can learn from the dangers of ignorance of this book. We need to know it, and if we don’t know it, our future is going to be very scary.”

“Some day,” he said, teaching the Bible in high school “should be mandated. Here’s a book that’s impacted our world unlike any other and you’re not going to teach it?”

When asked about Green’s statements, Pattengale would only say that “[t]he curriculum may or may not espouse those views. The last people [Green] wanted to hire were scholars who would embellish the facts to support his religious position.”

 

[GrandmasterP]

Church, synagogue, mosque, temple, gurdwara - etc....

Those are places for religious instruction.

Not schools.

Fair enough if it's a religious school and that's what the kids and their parents really want - but in a regular secular school, maybe not such a good idea.

[joeblast]

Yeah, people keep trying to erase that out of being an actual part of the country's history. A four year elective course is a bit much, I mean go to catholic school if you're that into it. I have no problem with it being represented in a historical context in schools, but certainly not to the point it could be considered 'bible study.' If you leave this stuff out of history (in its appropriate historical context) then history will necessarily be lacking. I mean, religious freedom was one of the main reasons a lot of people came here long ago, how are you going to remove the bible from that context? (but again I'll clarify that bible study is best left to the bible experts and of course shouldnt be a mandatory part of the curriculum.)

[Brian]

I find it eternally curious how people will rail against someone else attempting to force their belief system on others and then, in the next breath, call for the enforcement of their belief system.

 

Happens on both sides.

 

A quarter is still a quarter regardless of which face is showing...

[GrandmasterP]

Right now in England we have the Ofsted ( school inspectors) investigating several secular schools that appear to have been taken over by a particular faith group.

Allegations include governing bodies electing only fellow sectarians, marginalisation of non-sect-member teachers and the ousting of head teachers who have attempted to oppose the doctrinal 'steer'.

I have no issue with 'faith' schools whatsoever but believe it is wrong for taxpayers money to subsidise de facto faith schools taking over secular state schools by what appears to be 'stealth'.

State subsidised education should be secular so as to equitably educate and include all pupils of any or no faith.

 

News report here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27024881

Edited April 16, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[liminal_luke]

Theoretically, I don't have a problem with the scholarly study of the bible as a part of history. It obviously is a part of history; we can't really pretend otherwise. It's easy to imagine that the promoters of the class are being a little sly here though, that what they really want is to slip religious bible study into the curriculum undercover.

 

The ironic thing is that a true historical study of the bible wouldn't fit in so well, I imagine, with religious values. Do Christians really want their sacred text studied dispassionately? Would they be ok with it being examined, and put in a cultural context, like any other text?

[joeblast]

No they wouldnt, because the church has gone through great lengths to suppress any words that might betray evidence that Jesus just might have been an everyday, albeit rare and energetically gifted, person.

[ralis]

A little update on Hobby Lobby's bible course.

 

http://www.christianpost.com/news/okla-school-district-approves-hobby-lobby-presidents-bible-course-118082/

 

The latter part of this quote says it all. I don't believe this is some historical overview, but more religious indoctrination. Nonsectarian should include all belief systems.

 

 

In the speech, Green does state the curriculum will be taught in a non-sectarian manner. But in the same breath, he added that this is because he believes the evidence stands for itself. The goal – to prove the Bible correct – remains unchanged," wrote Jones.

"If that's the approach, then this class isn't intended to teach the Bible. It's intended to teach Christian apologetics and promote a fundamentalist view of that tome. And there lies the trouble."

[soaring crane]

The current uproar at facebook is about a woman in New Jersey who was denied a vanity plate for her car. Guess what she wanted to have.

Edited April 19, 2014 by soaring crane

[gendao]

No they wouldnt, because the church has gone through great lengths to suppress any words that might betray evidence that Jesus just might have been an everyday, albeit rare and energetically gifted, person.

I think a rigorous, open, academic debate would be great!

 

For example, how do Christians explain verses like:

Exodus 4:24 - And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.

Edited April 19, 2014 by vortex

[ralis]

I think a rigorous, open, academic debate would be great!

 

For example, how do Christians explain verses like:

 

We are talking about high school kids that in general don't have the critical thinking skills/cognitive development to discern propaganda from fact.. Furthermore, this does not belong in public high schools funded by tax payers. From my understanding, the only text is the bible which is a problem.

 

This course has been funded by a religious fundamentalist. I hope you see the problem with that scenario.

 

Here is the site that lists the persons involved in this project.

 

http://www.greenscholarsinitiative.org

Edited April 19, 2014 by ralis

[soaring crane]

The current uproar at facebook is about a woman in New Jersey who was denied a vanity plate for her car. Guess what she wanted to have.

It's was 'ATHEIST' - Not permitted in New Jersey

[ralis]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/hobby-lobbys-steve-green-launches-a-new-project-a-public-school-bible-curriculum/2014/04/15/e26a1176-c4d1-11e3-9ee7-02c1e10a03f0_story.html

 

 

There are a few problems here. Green has expressed hope that this course can become mandatory as opposed to an elective course. That is a dangerous precedent.

 

 

 

So will civil libertarians. In an award acceptance speech last April before the National Bible Association, Green explained that his goals for a high school curriculum were to show that the Bible is true, that it’s good and that its impact, “whether (upon) our government, education, science, art, literature, family ... when we apply it to our lives in all aspects of our life, that it has been good.”

If realized, these sentiments, although shared by millions of Americans, could conflict with the court’s requirement that public school treatment of the Bible be taught in a secular, academic fashion.

In the same speech, Green expressed hope that such courses would become mandatory, whereas now they are usually elective.

[ralis]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2014/04/18/hobby-lobby-owner-develops-bible-curriculum/

 

 

 

That is what our goal would be, so that we can have reintroduced this book to this nation. This nation is in danger because of its ignorance of what God has taught. There is (sic) lessons from the past that we can learn from the dangers of ignorance of this book. We need to know it. And if we don’t know it, our future is gonna be very scary. So we need to be able to teach and educate students.

[ralis]

Steve Green Templeton award recipient preaching his bias. He claims that the book has impacted/influenced science and the arts. It has, but not in the way he frames it. The church has held back scientific advancement and the arts.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2014 by ralis

[Age Sage]

Given that cultures reflect a lot of the religious values and beliefs, how can we really keep religious influences out of our public schools and other institutions? Even just deciding on what is relevant for curriculum is problematic with schools. Even though it's not too difficult to keep out stuff like prayer and references to a deity in school (it was abolished in the state where I live, when I was in the 2nd grade), it's more complicated when religionists want creationism taught in place of or as counterpoint to evolution.

That kind of pressure will not go away, although some regions of the US are less bothered by it than others.

[liminal_luke]

 

Even just deciding on what is relevant for curriculum is problematic with schools. Even though it's not too difficult to keep out stuff like prayer

 

I've always thought it odd that people imagine there's no prayer in the schools. How would they possibly know? The fervent inner thoughts of a silent believer who prays for prayers own sake--rather than to make a show or political statement--is perhaps the best kind of prayer. This kind of communion with the divine has never been, and will never be, against school rules. I imagine that even more vocal worship, when conducted among friends in an informal way--say on the playground or something-- would also get a pass.

 

The only kind of prayer not allowed in schools is prayer presided over by a teacher, or otherwise formally sanctioned by the authorities, in such a way that non-believers might feel coerced into participation. Does God only listen to the pleas of the devout when they are forced into divine contemplation by their math instructor?

 

Liminal

Edited April 19, 2014 by liminal_luke

[ralis]

I've always thought it odd that people imagine there's no prayer in the schools. How would they possibly know? The fervent inner thoughts of a slient believer who prays for prayers own sake--rather than to make a show or political statement--is perhaps the best kind of prayer. This kind of communion with the divine has never been, and will never be, against school rules. I imagine that even more vocal worship, when conducted among friends in an informal way--say on the playground or something-- would also get a pass.

 

The only kind of prayer not allowed in schools is prayer presided over by a teacher, or otherwise formally sanctioned by the authorities, in such a way that non-believers might feel coerced into participation. Does God only listen to the pleas of the devout when they are forced into divine contemplation by their math instructor?

 

Liminal

 

 

The OP is in regards to a certain curriculum in high schools and in this case a four year course in what amounts to bible study. As I posted in a previous post here, Steve Green has a vision for this to be mandatory for all schools. The YouTube spells that out. Are you in support of this kind of propaganda/religious indoctrination for high school kids?

Edited April 19, 2014 by ralis

[ralis]

Like I said, the Steve Green bible course teaches the bible as absolute truth.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/30/hobby-lobbys-public-school-bible-class-treats-moses-magic-wand-as-historical-fact/

[joeblast]

no more appropriate for teaching in a public school than teaching FDR's alphabet soup of government programs saved us from the great depression...at some point you're in the realm of having made shit up.