Jeff Posted February 24, 2014 Ah yes, well, I'm not talking about belief or what people 'think' is honesty. Being honest means seeing things for what they really are without lying, pretending, or obfuscating. For example, if I step back and ask why 3bob even brought this up, it's because he has weaknesses around not having any honor (his spiritual experiences and his ancestors), and weaknesses around violence and traumatizing others (his ancestors too). I mean look at the words he uses "razor's edge" and "trigger finger" (it's all cutting and shooting karma from the past). The 'difficulty' you mention is really with 'honesty, lying, and manipulating'. So while we can all go round and round on the merry-go-round of conceptual thinking, it's more useful to address the weaknesses. There is a use for dialogue, but if there's no common language or agreement on terms upfront, then it's all pretty pointless—not amounting to not much more than spinning our mental wheels. Hi Clarity, I do not see how your judgements regarding 3bob are related to the discussion of whether it is possible to defend honor while not being effected by karma. Also, my point on "subconscious" is that judgements on things like honor are often clouded or obscured by the relative perspective of the individual person trying to make the call. Best wishes, Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted February 24, 2014 What if honor simply means being honest or truthful with oneself. This is really what cuts through the karma like a hot knife through butter. And then there's no need to 'mentally masturbate' over concepts. Then it will still generate karmic activity. If there is a self, there are choices and judgements, there is subject and object, hence the generation of karma. This is the same point i was reflecting on when i made the comment (a few posts up) which caused 3Bob to see a 'trigger finger'. Busted.... I didn't read the whole thread. I'm guilty of that quite a bit... a little too impatient to respond to individual posts without reading through entire threads. Sorry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted February 24, 2014 Busted.... I didn't read the whole thread. I'm guilty of that quite a bit... a little too impatient to respond to individual posts without reading through entire threads. Sorry i would not lose any sleep over it, Steve! small matter, eh? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clarity Posted February 24, 2014 Excuse me Mr. Shrink, "razors edge" is a very common term adaptable to many things - Buddhism for instance - who many lean towards around here, thus is Buddhism weak and without honor along with its founder? (I'd say no) As for "trigger finger" it sounds like you have one up your up-turned nose. (but I'm not sure since I'm not a remote viewing shrink or whatever) Back to the topic... for any interested. People's understanding of Buddhism is weak, yes, emphatically so. Nobody avoids karma by defending concepts of anything (including honor). Defending is just more clinging, grasping, and dwelling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted February 24, 2014 Defending is just more clinging, grasping, and dwelling. That's true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted February 25, 2014 Never had a thread named after me before... Best wishes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted February 25, 2014 it was done in recognition of a gentleman (and most everyone else was also that way) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted February 25, 2014 it was done in recognition of a gentleman (and most everyone else was also that way) Thank you very much for the kind and gracious (& gentlemanly) words. Best regards, Jeff 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted February 25, 2014 What's going on ... people are being nice to each other. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clarity Posted February 25, 2014 Just to be clear, strengthening and deleting a weakness (or even finding a weakness) is not judgment. When there is judgment, there is no neutrality. And just because we have weaknesses, that doesn't make us weak as human beings. Bob, you can change the thread name and congratulate Jeff all you want, but that won't resolve your weakness around attacking, insulting, and lording it over others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted February 25, 2014 Just to be clear, strengthening and deleting a weakness (or even finding a weakness) is not judgment. When there is judgment, there is no neutrality. And just because we have weaknesses, that doesn't make us weak as human beings. Bob, you can change the thread name and congratulate Jeff all you want, but that won't resolve your weakness around attacking, insulting, and lording it over others. Hi Clarity, "but that won't resolve your weakness around attacking, insulting, and lording it over others." is definitely a judgement. There is no "neutrality" in that statement. Best wishes, Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clarity Posted February 25, 2014 And for you Jeff, judgment is a weakness for your ancestors (as well as 'not/having the last word'). When we connect to our insight instead of our thinking, there is no misunderstanding or judgment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted February 25, 2014 What's going on ... people are being nice to each other. Spoke too soon. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted February 25, 2014 Spoke too soon. Definitely. You jinxed it... But then you have always had a weakness for things like that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted February 25, 2014 Definitely. You jinxed it... But then you have always had a weakness for things like that... My weaknesses are manifold. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted February 25, 2014 My weaknesses are manifold. cats are not weak they are cool... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
