Brian Posted January 10, 2014 -- This page intentionally left blank -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 10, 2014 Why do you guys DO that .... I still don't get the post a blank page thing. Hey Marble head! I don't take it serious ... in Australia it is quiet common to 'shit-stir' and 'rib' people ... don't forget one of our Prime Ministers held the world beer drinking record and encouraged the whole country to take a day off and get pissed Actually ... once or twice I even got isimisizy to crack a joke (well his version of one) ... I reckon if he lightened up a bit he wouldn't be too bad a guy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Isimsiz Biri Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Why do you guys DO that .... I still don't get the post a blank page thing. Hey Marble head! I don't take it serious ... in Australia it is quiet common to 'shit-stir' and 'rib' people ... don't forget one of our Prime Ministers held the world beer drinking record and encouraged the whole country to take a day off and get pissed Actually ... once or twice I even got isimisizy to crack a joke (well his version of one) ... I reckon if he lightened up a bit he wouldn't be too bad a guy Thank you for light insult. If you ask me, if you stopped being a pagan, destroyed that Satanic altar in your house, believed and confirmed that there is only one God, that would be a progress. Edited January 12, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 12, 2014 Thank you for light insult. If you ask me, if you stopped being a pagan, destroyed that Satanic altar in your house, believed and confirmed that there is only one God, that would be a progress. Hehehe. That battle has been going on for thousands of years and I doubt things will change any time soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted January 12, 2014 Back to the original OP, I think that Zoroaster didn't create Judeo Christian belief, but probably influenced it. Ofcourse Judaism predates Zoroastrian by hundreds of years, so its hard to say which influenced which with certainty. As per the last paragraph. Here: (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism) Resemblances Between Zoroastrianism and Judaism <thus Christianity & Islam>. The points of resemblance between Zoroastrianism and Judaism, and hence also between the former and Christianity, are many and striking. Ahuramazda, the supreme lord of Iran, omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal, endowed with creative power, which he exercises especially through the medium of his Spenta Mainyu ("Holy Spirit"), and governing the universe through the instrumentality of angels and archangels, presents the nearest parallel to Yhwh that is found in antiquity... Zoroastrianism and Judaism present a number of resemblances to each other in their general systems of angelology and demonology... There are striking parallels between the two faiths and Christianity in their eschatological teachings—the doctrines of a regenerate world, a perfect kingdom, the coming of a Messiah, the resurrection of the dead, and the life everlasting. Both Zoroastrianism and Judaism are revealed religions: in the one Ahuramazda imparts his revelation and pronounces his commandments to Zarathustra on "the Mountain of the Two Holy Communing Ones"; in the other Yhwh holds a similar communion with Moses on Sinai. The Magian laws of purification, moreover, more particularly those practised to remove pollution incurred through contact with dead or unclean matter, are given in the Avestan Vendïdād quite as elaborately as in the Levitical code, with which the Zoroastrian book has been compared (see Avesta). The two religions agree in certain respects with regard to their cosmological ideas. The six days of Creation in Genesis find a parallel in the six periods of Creation described in the Zoroastrian scriptures. Mankind, according to each religion, is descended from a single couple, and Mashya (man) and Mashyana are the Iranian Adam (man) and Eve. In the Bible a deluge destroys all people except a single righteous individual and his family; in the Avesta a winter depopulates the earth except in the Vara ("enclosure") of the blessed Yima. In each case the earth is peopled anew with the best two of every kind, and is afterward divided into three realms. The three sons of Yima's successor Thraetaona, named Erij (Avesta, "Airya"), Selm (Avesta, "Sairima"), and Tur (Avesta, "Tura"), are the inheritors in the Persian account; Shem, Ham, and Japheth, in the Semiticstory. Likenesses in minor matters, in certain details of ceremony and ritual, ideas of uncleanness, and the like, are to be noted, as well as parallels between Zoroaster and Moses as sacred lawgivers; and many of these resemblances are treated in the works referred to at the end of this article. Causes of Analogies Uncertain. It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 12, 2014 Well, I think the late James Darmesteter might have gotten his dates wrong as well as his theory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 12, 2014 Also note that ' last paragraph' : "At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults." [My emphasis] The common influence, as I see it, and presented throughout my posts, is the pre-Zoroastrian (and pre-Vedic) P.I.E. culture and religions. I noted that many consider Zoroaster a reformer of a previous monotheistic religion that had been corrupted. This could explain the discrepancies in the dating of Zoroastrianism . The early form certainly pre-dates the later form (as some scholars now date it) of Judaism as a formal religion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 12, 2014 The common influence, as I see it, and presented throughout my posts, is the pre-Zoroastrian (and pre-Vedic) P.I.E. culture and religions. I noted that many consider Zoroaster a reformer of a previous monotheistic religion that had been corrupted. This could explain the discrepancies in the dating of Zoroastrianism . The early form certainly pre-dates the later form (as some scholars now date it) of Judaism as a formal religion. Yeah, too bad there aren't many reliable historical records of this early period of Southwest Asia and the Middle East. The cultures of the period is very rich as were the sciences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Isimsiz Biri Posted January 13, 2014 Gentlemen, You are giving some ideas based on other people's opinions. You have no idea about Middle East. Any academic from universities in Turkey, Iran, Egypt will just say that this theory is just BULLSHIT. Do not your waste your time with this theory any more. It is the most absurd thing I have heard in my life about history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted January 13, 2014 Gentlemen, You are giving some ideas based on other people's opinions. You have no idea about Middle East. Any academic from universities in Turkey, Iran, Egypt will just say that this theory is just BULLSHIT. Do not your waste your time with this theory any more. It is the most absurd thing I have heard in my life about history. Hehehe. Yeah, you have already made yourself very clear regarding this. But then, it has been a fun thread for you to voice your understanding about a topic of discussion. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 13, 2014 Gentlemen, You are giving some ideas based on other people's opinions. You have no idea about Middle East. Any academic from universities in Turkey, Iran, Egypt will just say that this theory is just BULLSHIT. Do not your waste your time with this theory any more. It is the most absurd thing I have heard in my life about history. Why should 'gentlemen' listen to you? 'Just saying' means nothing - back it up with something. You say it is absurd, yet ... the stuff YOU believe in can be seen as the most absurd stuff written on this site ... besides, you are a previously banned member ... now , why did that happen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) The Faravahar is an interesting symbol. It used to depict Ahura Mazda and had no figure in it. Then the figure was added. Some say it is a symbol of Fravashi (see the thread here on ‘Holy Guardian Angel’ ) or is it supposed to be Zoroaster … or even, as some claim, Darius the Great . ? As Fravashi we can see another influence Zoroastrianism has had on Western religion and the development of Hermetics. Edited January 14, 2014 by Nungali Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Yes. The ancient Egyptians were an early split off from the original P.I.E. people (in case its not realised they were NOT Africans). The other depictions relate to the concepts in Mesopotamia from the spread of the old PIE Empire that spread out from Airyana Vaeja http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/maps/vendidad.htm and eventually became the Archaemenian Empire (the largest in the Ancient world). . Edited January 16, 2014 by Nungali Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
