What exactly is a dan tien?

[KenBrace]

Interesting theories Dorian. Those are the sort of answers/ideas I was looking for when I started this topic.

[Wells]

Interesting theories Dorian. Those are the sort of answers/ideas I was looking for when I started this topic.

 

My pleasure!

 

A reason why concentrating at the tantien center point is often accented instead of concentrating at the pelvic bone (marrow) could be for the reason to simplify the process and to guarantee an equal absorption in all the pelvic bone marrow mass in a given time period to avoid imbalances.

 

Btw, ever wondered why there is no tantien in most kundalini yoga systems...?

 

Also, I read in a book of Richard Clear that the outdoor version of storing chi was in tantien and that the indoor version of storing chi was in the marrow!

Edited November 8, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

Also, let's read the email I wrote to my master Gary J. Clyman when I had my first very strong reaction to training Mind Light Nei Kung:

 

 

• WOW!
  I just had for the first time a very exciting "after effect" from Nei Kung training!!!
  After just finishing Routine A, I laid down on my bed to relax shortly before beginning
  Routine B and must have been fallen asleep!
  
  When I now woke up I felt very strong vibrations all over or in my body!
  I'm trying to describe it as it felt like:
  I felt a very strong and hard vibration like going up and down in my spine till the crown point of the head and also another one like jumping back and forth from the left leg to the right leg!
  I also felt the vibration very strong in my pubic bone area for some reason!
  I could hear it in my ears like a comfortable humming. Wow, incredible!!
  
  When I then stood up, the sensations began to weaken but in fact I can still slightly feel the vibration in my whole body as I am writing this on my laptop!
  
  I am very excited but also a little surprised about this "after effect"...I mean, shouldn't the vibration that I created through training just be stored in tantien after the Layered Condensing?
  Or does the vibration tend to come out at sleep to flow around in the body to clean further the channels or so, lol?

 

No word about tantien! Just the bones!

Edited November 7, 2013 by Dorian Black

[BaguaKicksAss]

Also, I read in a book of Richard Clear that the outdoor version of storing chi was in tantien and that the indoor version of storing chi was in the marrow!

 

Sea of marrow, or actual physical marrow, or both you think?

[Wells]

Sea of marrow, or actual physical marrow, or both you think?

 

Richard E. Clear: Chi Energy - Activation, Cultivation and Flow, page 94:

"Many publicly available chi kung systems teach students to store energy in the lower dantian. However, the secret inner school way is to store the energy using the idea that the whole body is like a battery and the bone marrow holds the charge [...]"

[BaguaKicksAss]

Or perhaps we create one through training?

[Wells]

Or perhaps we create one through training?

 

According to my theory the tantien is as real as the focal point of vibrations in the bowls with water in the videos is real.

It's a real energy vortex, but it's a by-product and the cause is the stored chi in the pelvic bone or the vibration of the pelvic bone.

So the tantien is created through chi vibration in the pelvic bone, through training. It does not exist without training..or only a very weak version of it (the vortex).

[Wells]

It's certainly possible that my theory is not the truth (who knows?) but that the tantien is created through training could be true anyway.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Dorian Black

[JustBHappy]

The OP has it all wrong from the beginning. Best advice is to find an accomplished teacher and instead of expecting everything that is taught to fit within his own limited mind, to open up his mind. It's the classic zen teaching of the overflowing tea cup. First one must empty the cup, otherwise there is nothing to be gained from the inquiry.

The Taoist model does not, and will not fit nicely into the western scientific model. Period. End of story.

The Dan Tian, is not a point. It is a group of points. This being said, it is not physical in the same way the mind is not physical.

It's a meaningless waste of time, better to choose one of two options:

1) Keep worshiping the western scientific model and close the mind.

2) start practicing. You really don't have to know much about the Dan Tian to practice. In time, it will reveal itself but you will find the same paradox in explaining it to closed minds that expect the world to fit within their models instead of expanding the models to fit the world. Taoist practice is not an intellectual game. You are never going to understand your way to mastery. Follow the advice of the sages and experience the truth for yourself.

It's all similar to the silly failed scientific attempts to pinpoint the mind. They can all find the physical brain, and even poke it, shock it, and other silliness, but know next to nothing about the mind.

[Wells]

To further follow the logic of my thesis:

 

LDT: in geometric center of pelvic bone marrow

MDT: in geometric center of rib cage bone marrow

UDT: in geometric center of skull bone marrow and/or cranial cavity brain "marrow"

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Didn't notice this having been mentioned yet here, so I'll drop in quickly that a specific location of the dantien is more in the practice of Daoist martial arts like Tai Chi, especially Chen Tai Chi, because the dantien is like the center of gravity, and beginning source of all movement.

 

My preferred instruction on finding the dantien center of gravity, for movement purposes, is from a Chen Xiaowang (19th century Chen family Taiji lineage holder) -- find the spot that remains still while turning and rotating the hips, turn the ball, then circles out from there -- reel the silkiness bébé.

[Wells]

My preferred instruction on finding the dantien center of gravity, for movement purposes, is from a Chen Xiaowang (19th century Chen family Taiji lineage holder) -- find the spot that remains still while turning and rotating the hips, turn the ball, then circles out from there -- reel the silkiness bébé.

 

Nice!

This is evidence that the tantien and its location are geometric in nature and that tantien is created through the body mechanics/statics in practice!

Edited November 8, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Mark Foote]

Dorian, interesting experience you had with energies in your body; amazing. I agree, the dan-t'ien seems like a projection, but I look more to the pivots of the sacrum in connection with the sense of equalibrium. What I get is a sense of my mind physically at the dan-t'ien, but cultivating equalibrium depends for me on an openness of location of mind. The openness of location is an induction of trance, I think; that's why it's so hard to describe, and the route to induction is never quite the same twice- but here's one that comes back to me:

 

The empty hand grasps the hoe handle

walking along I ride the ox

the ox crosses the wooden bridge

the bridge is flowing, the water is still

 

(Fuxi, 6th century C.E. Buddhist)

 

No mention of dan-t'ien or the mind, yet the mind at the dan-t'ien is connected with feeling at the sacrum, to me, and the mind shifts with relaxation in inhalation and exhalation. Feeling at the sacrum can also depend on feeling in the calves, on feeling in the groin, and on feeling from the tailbone to the head top in exhalation as well as inhalation.

 

The bridge that flows is the mind ("mind,having no fixed abode, should flow forth”- Bassui), and the water is voluntary activity in the body (another translation of the same passage: “without abiding anywhere, let the mind work” Sekida).

 

If the bridge gets up and walks around, it gets interesting as to how a person knows what to do.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Mark Foote