maintain discipline for regular training

[bd2]

How do you maintain discipline which is required for regular (i.e. daily for long periods of time) training? Some chinese monks are said to train for eight hours every day. I am addicted to watching tv, to playing games and to reading the latest gossip news (paris hilton etc). This is what i do in my free time. It is hard for me just to sit there motionlessly for 1 hour or to do tai chi, for example. I am just weak, incapable and pathetic.

[Spectrum]

"I am just weak, incapable and pathetic."

 

When you compare the small steps of the very start of anything, to the distant stars, your goals will seem very far away. The interesting thing about chinese martial arts, particularlly the methodology of their exercise, mental and physical; is the routineness of small things. it helps to recognize where you are at, your position, after accepting it, moving on takes only a few small steps to start new processes, starting new routines, you only need a few of those "a-ha" moments and new pathways are burned in your brain for good. Taoists studied the mind for thousands of years under the context of mystic union w/ the tao, keep researching there is lots of information out there. Off the cuff: start by getting off your ass and go to a conditioning gym or martial arts club where someone will keep you in check, or a personal trainer, or buy a new dvd every week and practice something different until you find something that INSPIRES you and then seek out fellow humans! One thing martial arts and a physical routine does is help you focus on the goals of the body, and start a consistant physically growth oriented routine. This is paramont to not only a regular "training program" but will result in a consistant and healthy feedback loop for you to FEEL the differences.

 

Good luck. Examine teachers teaching and performance. Dont put up w/ (i cant use this cuz it will kill you) practice with people who fight like they train.

 

Spectrum

 

PS - Your comment about tai chi is sharp; perhaps mistakenly so; yes, tai chi practitioners have to work very hard to maintain motionless in their body while they move through their form; sometimes 8, 16, 37, 88, 108 moves... then they work very hard to maintain motion in their bodies while they are motionless. There are many paradoxes consistantly presented to the practitioner who studies these forms and methods of training, most representitive of puzzles present in the perceptions of mind/body duality. The good thing about martial art training is the transformative unification process that the daily work brings.

Edited March 4, 2007 by Spectrum

[mYTHmAKER]

If you love to do something

and

it feels good

there ain't no discipline

Edited March 4, 2007 by mYTHmAKER

[bd2]

[thaddeus]

How do you maintain discipline which is required for regular (i.e. daily for long periods of time) training? Some chinese monks are said to train for eight hours every day. I am addicted to watching tv, to playing games and to reading the latest gossip news (paris hilton etc). This is what i do in my free time. It is hard for me just to sit there motionlessly for 1 hour or to do tai chi, for example. I am just weak, incapable and pathetic.

people need to be tricked into training.

if you felt it would save your life you would do all the training you need. if you read biographies of great people, they often had to overcome some great obstacle such as a sickness, poverty, bullying, etc. If you have no reason other than it's something you 'should' do, then, yeah, you probably won't train much.

T

[mYTHmAKER]

Enough talk.

Just do it or don't

and

move on.

 

With that I am remindes me of a story I was once told.

So you want to be an actor. You take one lesson and sit on your ass.

A few years later you take another lesson.

You keep dreaming of being an actor.

Once you even go to an audition.

Sometime later you take another lesson sit on your ass and dream.

One day you wake up and you have no teeth.

The End

[thaddeus]

With that I am remindes me of a story I was once told.

So you want to be an actor. You take one lesson and sit on your ass.

A few years later you take another lesson.

You keep dreaming of being an actor.

Once you even go to an audition.

Sometime later you take another lesson sit on your ass and dream.

One day you wake up and you have no teeth.

The End

in the end, this isn't so bad, the dream served a purpose..imho..

T

[Eric23]

They say if you do something every day for 3 weeks it becomes a habit. I had been very haphazard about my yoga and stretching. My back and other muscles were letting me know. Made a commitment to do my routine (15 minutes or so) every morning for 3 weeks. Later on I added meditation. Three weeks turned into a hundred days of yoga and meditation. So on and so on.

[forestofsouls]

I would echo Eric23 on this one. When I first started to sit, I could no no more than five minutes at a stretch. Yes, five minutes. But I made myself do it every day, every so often trying to push it up a minute or so. And I would sit no matter what, if I felt like it or not. I learned it was better to form the habit of sitting then to worry about high quality meditation in the beginning.

[MASTERforge]

Buy a few self help and motivational books and audio CD's

 

I was sceptical about this method at first but it serves a purpose. The books gave me an understanding of how to achieve my desires but more importantly it made me recognise my negative thoughts and emotions. When I was able to recognise them, I was able to change them and put them to better uses. Instead of dreading working on my tai chi form as I found it quite boring. I knew that in order to learn it, I had to enjoy it. So whenever I learn a new section of the form I put out the dread and the boredom and let myself enjoy the experience. When I am enjoying the experience it no longer is work.

 

The audio CD's are great with the books. The books tell you how and why in an intellectual way and the audio tapes internalise it so you feel it. Self hypnosis tapes are great, they are easy to listen to. When you have listened to them for a while they will change the way you think for the better. Instead of that voice in your head saying 'i'd rather be watching TV' you will find you have more motivation to practice your tai chi.

 

It takes a while to change bad habits. They won't change overnight, but you will notice subtle changes over time that will eventually add together and you will reach that goal of level of practice.

 

A common mistake is to go from telly addict to tai chi several hours a day. Its almost impossible to maintain. A lifestyle change takes a while to adjust to.

 

Get the motivational material and when your motivated your practice will be much more rewarding. You will also notice this affecting other parts of your life.

[mYTHmAKER]

in the end, this isn't so bad, the dream served a purpose..imho..

T

 

What purpose do you think it served

[lotusbud]

bd2 I totally understand how you feel. After I get fired up a bit i can practice steady for a few days and then the motivation starts to wane, even if the effects are startling sometimes. It's worse when the training involves hardship as it sometimes does.

 

Part of the answer seems to be, "just do it". Coming back into regular daily practice and training is just a macrocosmic version of leading our attention back to the form once it flies away. Fueling our interest is good, read books, meet people and share.

 

I sense something else here. What are you looking for in practice? What's your goal and why do you think you need to force yourself to practice an hour? In my experience it's always bad to "force" yourself to practice.

 

Better start with something easier, not an hour a day right off the bat. Keep a record or a journal. Pay attention to when you don't practice, is there a reason? How does it feel? Do you realize at that moment that you have a choice? Have you committed to a certain time? Can conjuring a motivation help you get started (like Sasuke must train to defeat his murderous brother Itachi (hopefully you have a virtuous motivation))?

 

In short if you can't practice every day then the solution is not in forcing yourself to practice every day on pain of death. You just need to understand why.

[thaddeus]

What purpose do you think it served

Dreams help define us. We don't always have to achieve great things. I'm sure there's a spiritual parable in there somewhere

[mbanu]

How do you maintain discipline which is required for regular (i.e. daily for long periods of time) training? Some chinese monks are said to train for eight hours every day. I am addicted to watching tv, to playing games and to reading the latest gossip news (paris hilton etc). This is what i do in my free time. It is hard for me just to sit there motionlessly for 1 hour or to do tai chi, for example. I am just weak, incapable and pathetic.

 

The difference between meditating and watching TV can be quite slight, depending on what you're watching. If insight can be found cutting up an ox, surely it can be found playing a game of Scrabble. If you have trouble with stillness meditation, go on walking meditation. The trick isn't in what you do, but how and why you do it.

 

Te isn't found in the trappings of a thing, but in the spirit.

[mYTHmAKER]

Dreams help define us. We don't always have to achieve great things. I'm sure there's a spiritual parable in there somewhere

 

Yes dreams serve a purpose. They give us hope.

However, that wasn't the point of the story.

If there is something you want to do pursue it -

don't just dream about it or later when it's too late

you may regret you never tried.

[soaring crane]

I am addicted to watching tv, to playing games and to reading the latest gossip news (paris hilton etc). This is what i do in my free time. It is hard for me just to sit there motionlessly for 1 hour or to do tai chi, for example. I am just weak, incapable and pathetic.

 

Are you very active when you zone out in front of the tube or do you sit there motionlessly? What's the difference between sitting in front of the tube for an hour and actively meditating for an hour? Anwser: in the second case, you find yourself alone with yourself.

 

If it's as bad as you describe, really "addicted", then I really think you should break the addiction. TV has this way of bringing you further from your true center than other drugs, imo. And vicarious emotional experiences can still leave real scars. Problem is, since they have no basis in your life, they can also bring confusion and contradiction, and can become almost impossible to solve.

 

Later you wrote: "Qigong is about working with energy. Work can be hard. I think it is important to be hard to oneself but i am not able to be it myself. If you only practice when you want to do it then surely only few would train daily for so long periods of time. Today, i forced myself to train one hour in the morning."

 

Well, training for an hour is always good. Forcing yourself to do it.... not so good. It's a contradiction. And are you really convinced that "it is important to be hard to oneself"? Why? Where did you learn that?

 

I really think you have to find what it is that's holding you back from pursuing what seems like a dream for you. There's some kind of blockage, maybe just old habits. Doing it on your own is probably not going to work. If you can find a decent teacher and make a commitment to a course of study, you may find yourself opening up over time.

 

Ever thought about past-life regression therapy? It can be tricky but if you have someone very competent and loving to aid you, it can be a real eye-opener. Third-eye, too

Edited March 6, 2007 by soaring crane

[soaring crane]

I just finished my own evening practice and was thinking about this thread, so here I am again... I hope my previous post didn't sound pessimistic or discouraging, it was only meant to be honest and helpful.

 

I was thinking... sitting for an hour might just not be the right thing for you. And highly structured, strict Taiji forms are close to impossible to learn without a teacher. Sponatneous, artistic Qigong exercises might be better suited for you. If I were in your shoes, I would try this.

 

Start with some very vigorous exercise. I often utilize versions of wood-chopping and shaking, slapping exercises in the beginning of my evening courses to get people to let go of the stress of the day. I could give you some tips, it's all very easy.

 

And then try to create your own movements. Base everything around your breath. For example, one very effective meditation is to move on the exhale. Move something, anything, whatever it is that wants to move, let it, on the exhale. Let some sounds come up from your gut, too. Remain motionless on the inhale.

 

There are so many variations on this theme, but it all comes down to getting in touch with your center.

 

And after you do that, try standing like a tree for five... ten... fifteen... twenty minutes.

 

There are so many ways available to pass an hour. I think you might just have to experiment a little till you find yours. At first, you'll find things that you don't like, which sounds like what you've experienced so far. If you have to force yourself to do something, then do something else.

[lino]

How do you maintain discipline which is required for regular (i.e. daily for long periods of time) training? Some chinese monks are said to train for eight hours every day. I am addicted to watching tv, to playing games and to reading the latest gossip news (paris hilton etc). This is what i do in my free time. It is hard for me just to sit there motionlessly for 1 hour or to do tai chi, for example. I am just weak, incapable and pathetic.

 

Trust me. Once you start observing your own body it will become an addiction. I hadn't even been meditating and I became aware of my microcosmic orbit, the Dan tien is a bit more difficult for me. I started doing the seated stillness thing and the orbit grew almost exponentially in power Then the macrocosmic orbit opens up

 

From my very short experience, my spine and ribcage is starting to loosen up and get stronger, I have more circulation in my legs (old frostbite injury) and they are getting stronger, an old forearm injury is starting to spasm...which I think is an indication of healing, a blockage under the sternum was cleared.

[lino]

[bd2]

Self hypnosis tapes are great, they are easy to listen to.

 

that might be worth a try.

 

What's your goal and why do you think you need to force yourself to practice an hour?

 

I meditate to conserve my jing. I have to conserve it before it is too late. Lost jing cannot be retrieved. As far as i know, the harmful effects of the loss of jing are irreversible.

My foremost concern is to preserve my youth and to have a long, healthy and prosperous life so that i have much time to think about its purpose. That may sound far-fetched but i believe that much which is unattainable for ordinary people (i.e. a strict, long term diet, breatharianism, resistance to coldness, hardening the bones) can be achieved if one is an advanced (and disciplined) qigong practitioner.

 

If you have trouble with stillness meditation, go on walking meditation. The trick isn't in what you do, but how and why you do it.

 

you misunderstood what i intend to achieve. I suspect that you refer to Osho. According to Osho enlightenment can happen when doing anything. According to Osho the only prerequisite for enlightenment is being centered, not wanting to be anywhere else and to accept that which exists (this is why you recommend a walking meditation).

I personally do not like Osho at all because he does not know how to conserve sexual energy. In fact, i even dislike him because he promotes taking drugs which destroy sexual energy. I think that the goal of life is to live gently for millenia, to live in prosperity and to be without frailties or diseases. I believe that only a qigong master can live like that (without diseases etc). I think that only a qigong master can understand the meaning of rejoicing. My greatest wish is to become physically immortal.

[mbanu]

that might be worth a try.

I meditate to conserve my jing. I have to conserve it before it is too late. Lost jing cannot be retrieved. As far as i know, the harmful effects of the loss of jing are irreversible.

My foremost concern is to preserve my youth and to have a long, healthy and prosperous life so that i have much time to think about its purpose. That may sound far-fetched but i believe that much which is unattainable for ordinary people (i.e. a strict, long term diet, breatharianism, resistance to coldness, hardening the bones) can be achieved if one is an advanced (and disciplined) qigong practitioner.

you misunderstood what i intend to achieve. I suspect that you refer to Osho. According to Osho enlightenment can happen when doing anything. According to Osho the only prerequisite for enlightenment is being centered, not wanting to be anywhere else and to accept that which exists (this is why you recommend a walking meditation).

I personally do not like Osho at all because he does not know how to conserve sexual energy. In fact, i even dislike him because he promotes taking drugs which destroy sexual energy. I think that the goal of life is to live gently for millenia, to live in prosperity and to be without frailties or diseases. I believe that only a qigong master can live like that (without diseases etc). I think that only a qigong master can understand the meaning of rejoicing. My greatest wish is to become physically immortal.

 

Ah, I understand now. My apologies. There are many motives covered under the blanket of Daoism, I was not sure which goals you were driving at.

 

As for immortality, there is no complete and safe public transmission of the Ghost, Earth, or Heavenly immortal styles in the West that I know of. An Earth style is discussed in things like the White Tigress series, but not in any sort of meaningful way. The Healing Tao works and spinoffs by people like Yudelove contain a large number of Heavenly immortal practices, but grow fuzzy just when it starts getting really dangerous, around the formation of the spirit body. They also downplay the importance of cooling off when not training the furnace for transformation, so it's easy to get toxic heat problems if you're not careful. You could possibly cobble together the missing steps if you were adventurous, but I'd suggest finding a teacher. Nothing really helpful written about the Ghost style, either, although the basics are popularized in many a horror story. Not really a style worth pursuing anyhow.

 

Until you find a teacher, I'd suggest pursuing the Human style. There's a lot of written information available, as most of the style has been codified into Traditional Chinese Medicine's general advice for longevity. It has no techniques for circumventing the jing problem, but started early and practiced steadily, it greatly improves the chances of one reaching their 90s-100s still hale and with all their faculties intact. Two books in English I've found useful are The Mystery of Longevity by Liu Zhengcai and Health Preservation and Rehabilitation by the Shanghai University of Traditional Chinese Medicine.

 

As for superpowers and resistance techniques, these have mostly been taken over by the martial artists, and are still generally available if you are part of the proper lineages. A few things to note, however. First, is that almost all of these practices greatly burn jing in long-term use, if burning it somehwhat effectively. Second, some of the practices aren't really as useful as they once were. For instance, Iron Shirt training really never recovered from the Boxer Rebellion, IMHO, as while effective against the likes of spears, knives, and arrows, was not equipped to deal with the amount of force delivered by a bullet. I don't know if modern practicioners have improved on this weakness, but if so it hasn't been shared with the public, as far as I know.

 

Good luck in your studies.

[Spectrum]

[lino]

It isn't the muscle conditioning that is important itself, it is the resultant fortification of the nervous system that is important. In the book, "Opening the Energy Gates of the Body", Bruce Frantzis states that the meridians are nerves. The nerve conditioning itself is very beneficial since it might be the difference in between an accidently fully awakened kundalini being a nerve and brain damaging event or a minor speedbump, which Dr.Glenn Morris observed of some people in his Pathnotes.

 

What I mean is that if some attention is focused on stretching (in order to open up meridians) and conditioning then an accidently fully awakened kundalini may be a speed bump since the nerves and body are more prepared to handle the energies. A person that is usually sedentary and tight may have a lot of issues.

[bd2]

Edited March 17, 2007 by bd2