WU WEI is a negative gerund

[lienshan]

The socalled Guodian Tao Te Ching is a first hand copy of max one third of Laozi's original manuscript to Tao Te Ching. It's therefore by nature of mixed quality. Some finished chapters are superior to the corresponding chapters of the Received version while other unfinished chapters are under construction.

 

There was for example two versions of chapter 64 in his manuscript; the oldest is very similar to the chapter 64 of the Received version. Here is a passage from his later written chapter 64:

 

Acting

goes to that which is lost

goes to hold in hand

goes to the one who lets go of it.

Holy men no acting therefore no losing.

No holding in hand therefore no letting go.

 

為

之者敗

之執

之者失之

聖人無為故無敗也

無執故無失也

 

The first 為 has the position of a noun and is therefore a gerund.

The two last sentences are marked as noun clauses by 也 characters.

無為 (wu wei), 無敗, 無執 and 無失 are therefore all negative gerunds.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

the international space station orbits over head at a lower altitude than your words, flying past my brain capacity.

[Stosh]

I think he is saying that wu wei is to be seen more as a thing undone

( as in the path not taken--- rather than an active thing one isnt doing

non-participation rather than avoidance )

But Im not sure either

[hydrogen]

為

之者敗

之執

之者失之

聖人無為故無敗也

無執故無失也

 

Act,

Who acts would fail.

Possess,

Who possesses would lose.

Sage doesn't act therefore doesn't fail.

doesn't possess therefore doesn't lose.

 

The "act" should be interpreted as "react", which is a result of the conditionings, IMHO.

Edited April 11, 2013 by hydrogen

[adept]

What's a gerund ?

[Apech]

What's a gerund ?

 

Its the continuous or imperfect form of the verb (the -ing form) used as a noun.

 

For instance : 'Teaching is my life" >>> here the verb 'To teach' in the imperfect 'teaching' is used as a noun, the subject of the sentence is then 'teaching'.

[lienshan]

flying past my brain capacity.

 

The acting of men ..... is a gerund

 

The no acting of sages ..... is a negative gerund

 

The acting of sages ..... is nonsense according to Laozi's following lines:

 

Being careful in the end as well as in the beginning and then no dropping accident?

Independently from them both fullfilled, the dropping of humanity drops him.

 

He refers to the two characters 聖人 "holy men" which as compound characters mean "sages".

 

慎終若始則無敗事矣

人之敗也恒於其且成也敗之

[ChiDragon]

Follow this advice

[lienshan]

Follow this advice

 

WU WEI

 

 

"in classical Chinese it is perfectly alright grammatically for a sentence to leave a word ambiguous as to whether it is being used as a noun or a verb but in vernacular Chinese and in English grammar that ambiguity is not allowed"

 

That's simply not true with regard to the Tao Te Ching written in the pre-Qin classical chinese.

I know, that you cannot read the exavacated versions because you don't know the ancient grammar.

 

Pick one character, that is "ambiguous as to whether it is being used as a noun or a verb" to you.

You have one shot in the gun. I'll tell you whether the character a noun or a verb and why

[ChiDragon]

WOW, you knew it all..........

[lienshan]

I know that 矣 at the end of the first sentence marks the sentence as a rethorical question:

 

慎終若始則無敗事矣

人之敗也恒於其且成也敗之

 

Being careful in the end as well as in the beginning and then no dropping accident?

Independently from them both fullfilled, the dropping of humanity drops him.

 

The second line explained in the language of the TaoBum board:

 

Flowing Hands is a holy man ( 聖人 read as an adjective + a noun )

His three immortals are sages ( 聖人 read as compound characters )

The going to the toilet (a gerund) of Flowing Hands is humanly.

The no going to the toilet (a negative gerund) of his three immortals is not humanly.