Looking for insight on opening a small retreat in Appalachian Mountains

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Greetings fellow Bums,

I had a question for the forum members here on what makes a retreat successful, both from the attendee's pov, as well as that of the retreat center. I've been saving for quite a long time and am in the process of hunting down some acreage in East Tennessee for the sake of eventually getting it up and running into a small retreat center based on cob houses, the tiny house movement, and in all due time having to set up to be as self sustainable as possible w/ green houses gardens/zen gardens, etc.

 

I want to make this place be able to cater to all various paths as I personally have friends in various traditions (Zen, Taoist, General Mystic, Nondualist, Buddhist, Christian, etc)

 

I personally sit with people on a very small scale and offer pointers, or a sort of philosophical unraveling of illusions so to speak, based on a number of traditions.

 

Also I've been to quite a few retreats in my 14 year run. From extravagant trips abroad with luscious rain forests and zen gardens, to dingy whole in the wall someone's house down the street type retreats, and everything in between.

 

So I'm just looking for insight on having a small cozy retreat place in the mountains that I've been called to put together over the next few years, and respecting the views of many here, hope to hear your 2 cents on it

[C T]

What a noble ambition. Wishing you every success, Dominicus!

 

It will all pan out in its own way, dont worry. The process itself is pretty dynamic, as you would be well aware of by now, so be prepared that a lot of stuff will not go to plan. Things will unfold in their own time -- there are so many levels and dimensions to these sorts of undertaking, more so when your idea appears to be launching a centre where eclecticism is the preferred statement.

 

One would imagine buckets-full of commitment, courage, perseverance, foresight, flexibility, resourcefulness, resilience, and financial availability to be some of the key qualities that will lend success to your project.

 

The main thing i have observed, having lived and worked in a well-organized retreat centre back in the 90s, is that clashes of personalities have always been an issue, but if there was a genuine common desire among the key people to keep nurturing the place patiently, as one would attend to a bonsai tree for example, then i cannot see why your goal will not be reached.

 

If a man can have the vision and drive to transform a barren mountain (history below) into one of the top tourist attraction in SE Asia, so can you with this more virtuous aspiration.

 

http://www.genting.com/history/index.htm

[cheya]

Hello Dominicus,

What a wonderful project! For ideas and feedback on the physical aspects, you might check out Earthaven Ecovillage southeast of Asheville. They've got a lot of experience in the various iterations of green building, and a dear couple have a small Zen retreat going right next door. They have built a wonderful Zendo for sitting, as well as an amazing eco farmstead (my words, not theirs).

 

Many blessings on your endeavor!

[Seeker of Wisdom]

That's a wonderful project you've set yourself. Good luck.

 

I'd suggest asking around groups/churches/temples institutions in Tennessee for word of mouth, support, donations, advice on catering to these different groups, etc. You could run events on the holidays of various religions to raise money and awareness.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Seeker of the Self

[Vmarco]

IMO it would impossible to have a successful retreat, catering to Zen, Taoist, General Mystic, Nondualist, Buddhist, Christian, etc.,...as these are incompatable terms. For example, what are the similiarities between Buddhism and Christianity?

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/beyond-belief02.pdf

 

Can someone embrace non-duality and Western Mysticism at the same time? No Way!

 

Probably the best model that advocates your ideology is the University of Science and Philosophy,...not far from you in Western Virginia,...a mix of Jesus and unspoken Daoism.

 

For a time, you will likely be quite successful, as many New Agers are attracted to the inter-faith program you espouse,...those who wish to cling to various indoctrinations while adding more to their knowledge base, as if they were actually elevating spiritually.

 

For a successful local center,...purchase a geodesic dome kit, and solicit volunteers to build it, to spawn ownership in your Center. To be successful Nationally or beyond, you must project yourself Nationally or beyond. I did a 3 week workshop at Leonard Orr's International Training Center in Virginia,...a very exciting and rewarding experience.

 

Another model, a rather successful one, is Synergy Ranch in NM

http://synergiaranch.com/ which rents space for various workshops,..keeping an eclectic flow.

 

One of my favorite Centers is the 3 sided-whole http://www.3sidedwhole.com/ which incorporates regular, participatory music venues, like drum circles and overnight campouts.

 

Many prosperous Centers have an identifiable structure,...like the Rosicrucians Egyptian buildings. IMO, from reading several of your posts, if you focused more on your Christian Mysticism stuff, instead of non-dual subjects beyond the capacity of mystics,...you could incorporate a burial grotto at your Center, where mystics could be in communiy after death,...that would attract looks of committed interest.

[zerostao]

sounds exciting, i wonder if the snake handlers will pay a visit?

dominicus, are you from east tennessee?

[Apech]

IMO it would impossible to have a successful retreat, catering to Zen, Taoist, General Mystic, Nondualist, Buddhist, Christian, etc.,...as these are incompatable terms. For example, what are the similiarities between Buddhism and Christianity?

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/beyond-belief02.pdf

 

Can someone embrace non-duality and Western Mysticism at the same time? No Way!

 

.....

 

Why not?

[Vmarco]

 

Why not?

In a nutshell, Non-duality is about letting go of beliefs, whereas Christian Mysticism is about accumulating beliefs. One thing all Christian Mystics have in common is a belief in a god,...for Non-duality, god would be one of the first things to go.

http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm

 

I attempted to share with Dominicus a variety of ideas on how he can, as he asked, have a successful Center. God is very dual,...ie., god is light, and in him is no darkness. Everything about god is duality based. People don't want to visit a Center where everything they thought was meaningful, is shown to be meaningless,...they want stuff to support their beliefs,..thus, a successful Retreat Center would build on their beliefs, so they left with the feeling that they were expanding, and experiencing the divine.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Vmarco

[Edward M]

Vmarco-- stop trying to corrupt someone's dream!!

 

Over and out

Peace

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Obviously Dominicus couldn't teach some things to some groups.

 

But surely many practices would suit anyone. I can't see anybody having an objection to mindfulness, metta meditation, anapana, and so on.

 

I can see everybody feasibly meditating together and discussing afterwards; then Christians splitting off for a while to pray and discuss the Bible, while Buddhists go chant mantras and discuss sutras, Taoists do qigong and discuss the Tao The Ching; and all then reconvening to carry on.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Seeker of the Self

[Apech]

In a nutshell, Non-duality is about letting go of beliefs, whereas Christian Mysticism is about accumulating beliefs. One thing all Christian Mystics have in common is a belief in a god,...for Non-duality, god would be one of the first things to go.

http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm

 

I attempted to share with Dominicus a variety of ideas on how he can, as he asked, have a successful Center. God is very dual,...ie., god is light, and in him is no darkness. Everything about god is duality based. People don't want to visit a Center where everything they thought was meaningful, is shown to be meaningless,...they want stuff to support their beliefs,..thus, a successful Retreat Center would build on their beliefs, so they left with the feeling that they were expanding, and experiencing the divine.

 

 

You said Western Mysticism and not Christian Mysticism ... so which did you mean?

[RiverSnake]

The great thing about retreats is they are often silent. I don't thinking differing theologies would be a problem if no one is talking.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[ॐDominicusॐ]

IMO it would impossible to have a successful retreat, catering to Zen, Taoist, General Mystic, Nondualist, Buddhist, Christian, etc.,...as these are incompatable terms. For example, what are the similiarities between Buddhism and Christianity?

Hey Marco. Actually I know quite a few places that cater 1 week to Zen, then another week to Christian Silent retreats, then another week for tai chi/qi gong, then another week for kung fu, then another week for Buddhists, and they do quite well, booked every month ......so I don't know where you came up with this "impossible" from besides just being speculation.

 

Actually, I've been working on an interview with a Eastern Orthodox Monk from Mt. Athos (who has been through it all Zen, Dzogchen, Taoism, Sufism, etc) about Enlightenment in his current tradition, which I hope to have complete in a another week or so for the sake of posting here on Taobums. It was specifically motivated by your posts/speculations that Tzu is God and the only way, so I'm looking forward to that coming soon. Thanks for more motivation by the way!!!! Hearing your dogma spiel of "impossible" just stirs up the inner fire allow reality to prove you wrong!!!

 

 

To everyone else" I'm from Illinois. Have lived in Tennessee before. There is a surprising number of people that have moved there from all over the country (Maine, Oregon, Ca, NY, and everywhere else in between. I will also be hosting Straw-Bale and Cob house workshops with established instructors, who will provide the land with student built dwellings, that can be easily finished off.

 

I'm already in the process of getting everything setup online for kick-starter, facebook, donations that can be traded for time at the retreat or for food from the sustainable garden, etc etc. And I have had interest from quite a few "retreat" holders that are big on the Taoist/Buddhist/Qi-Gong/Mystic/Nondual/Xtian scenes that have mentioned interest in holding their retreats there provided sufficient dwellings/bathrooms/showers/food.

 

I'm also looking to do a program for longer term guests who can trade helping in the gardens/building/cooking/cleaning in exchange for year long (or longer practices), which I've done before personally and was life changing.

 

Also a central place of course for all my Tao-Bum brothers to meet up and share practices, brotherhood, friendship, laughs, and similar interests of course.

 

Great ideas so far!!! My notebooks really getting filled with more ideas

[Vmarco]

 

 

You said Western Mysticism and not Christian Mysticism ... so which did you mean?

I consider Western Mysticism and Christian Mysticism one and the same,...whether Kabbalistic, Sufi, Rosicrucian, Meister Eckhart, etc,...all seek some sort of imagined connection with a divine or god,...and are incapable of the direct experience available through the non-dual perspective of Eastern Mysticism, which does not seek connection with an imagined divinity or god.

 

Western Mystics seek sensory experiences,...Eastern Mystics are interested in the unconditioned experiences beyond the sensory apparatus.

 

"the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totally fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go." Lao Tzu

[Apech]

I consider Western Mysticism and Christian Mysticism one and the same,...whether Kabbalistic, Sufi, Rosicrucian, Meister Eckhart, etc,...all seek some sort of imagined connection with a divine or god,...and are incapable of the direct experience available through the non-dual perspective of Eastern Mysticism, which does not seek connection with an imagined divinity or god.

 

Western Mystics seek sensory experiences,...Eastern Mystics are interested in the unconditioned experiences beyond the sensory apparatus.

 

"the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totally fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go." Lao Tzu

 

Ok I don't want to detour this thread into this discussion but don't agree with you ... and leave it at that for now

[Vmarco]

Hey Marco. Actually I know quite a few places that cater 1 week to Zen, then another week to Christian Silent retreats, then another week for tai chi/qi gong, then another week for kung fu, then another week for Buddhists, and they do quite well, booked every month ......so I don't know where you came up with this "impossible" from besides just being speculation.

 

I fully agree,...as I said in my post,...inter-faith beliefs are very trendy right now,...just look at the huge following of Thich Nhat Hanh,...who promotes a Buddha/Jesus amalgamation,...as if one could really bring their conditions into the Unconditional, and the Unconditional would remain Unconditional,...ain't ever going to happen.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Vmarco

[ॐDominicusॐ]

I consider Western Mysticism and Christian Mysticism one and the same,...whether Kabbalistic, Sufi, Rosicrucian, Meister Eckhart, etc,...all seek some sort of imagined connection with a divine or god,...and are incapable of the direct experience available through the non-dual perspective of Eastern Mysticism, which does not seek connection with an imagined divinity or god.

Unless you've been in it, lived it, breathed it, tasted it, know it from the inside out .....then it's nothing more than outsider speculative window shopping.

 

I fully agree,...as I said in my post,...inter-faith beliefs are very trendy right now,...just look at the huge following of Thich Nhat Hanh,...who promotes a Buddha/Jesus amalgamation,...as if one could really bring their conditions into the Unconditional, and the Unconditional would remain Unconditional,...ain't ever going to happen.

Honestly, I dont care and never have cared what is trendy or what is not. I judge a branch by the number of Enlightened Beings it is pumping out, and if the practices are conducive to revealing the Absolute Truth. I was plunged into this Absolute by reading my first Koan. Then a year later, plunged into it again at a Christian Silent retreat (Boy did the monkey mind go crazy and reveal itself in that one).

 

Are the practices and retreat leaders pumping out Enlightenment? Yes = Invitation to hold a retreat and the center I will be working on. No = I'm not interested. I don't care about splitting hairs and divisions based on creed, as I have gotten just as much out of the Taoist as I have out of the Sufi's, Christians, Buddhists, and so on....

 

By the way, your welcome there too once it's up and running, and I hope we can have a laugh about all this one day when we realize we were both wrong, cause words are a joke compared to the experience

 

[Ya Mu]

ॐDominicusॐ
A few suggestions from someone who has rented venues in a great many places and the problems that I have seen.

First let me say I too am a fan of the "tiny house" concept and think these would be perfect for retreat attendees.
Still gonna cost somebody, though. Try to make sure these costs are not so high that you have to charge unrealistic premium prices to keep them full.

I also think there is no inherent problem in you hosting multidisciplinary activities. I have taught qigong & medical qigong in western hospitals, religious institutions of just about every sort, abandoned factories, and other places where one would not think would fit with Chinese concepts.

Make sure the center has access. Sure, off the beaten path IS cool, sounds cool, etc, but practicality is that often folks fly in from other areas so access is extremely important.

Make sure there is access to food. People like to eat and not everyone is interested in attending an event where one needs to fast. If the nearest place to get food is 30 miles away there IS going to be a problem unless you intend a big building with its own kitchen staff. This will lead to its own problems as the cost will be high to do this.

Make sure there is a central building with a large open space. Most programs need a fairly large space in order for an event to happen. For instance, it is best when I can find a 2500 sg ft open space. Hope you can get the funds as construction is not cheap these days. If you choose a smaller space you will have more limited type of events. If you do open doors only it will be limited to "in season".

If possible attempt to balance out all these costs so that you will not have to charge exorbitant fees for rental in order to pay for them. Not an easy task in today's economic environment.

Good luck!

edit for sp.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Ya Mu