The Cremation of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

[9th]

Some of you may find this interesting:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojuL6OCvo2A

[Tibetan_Ice]

Smoke from the cannons...

[Jetsun]

That is pretty interesting thanks

[konchog uma]

it took me a long time to accept Trungpa Rinpoche, i thought his "crazy wisdom" was a thin mask for poor choices and nymphomanical alcoholism, and i didn't like his stripped down American Buddhism.. i like all that "weird" Tibetan Buddhism. Seeing the footage of his cremation was actually one of the first turning points in my being able to accept him as a realized being and a genuine genius. All that is evident in his books of course, but unfortunately I had chosen to focus on his problems rather than his brilliance when considering him.

 

The 28-day retreat I went on last year was on the same property as is shown in that footage, at a center called Karme Choling in north Vermont.

 

they are making a movie about his son Sakyong Jamgon Mipham Rinpoche (the present incarnation of Mipham the nyingma scholar, and student of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche) called An Uncommon King.

 

 

 

[konchog uma]

oh yes exactly so rv. It was his estimation of what the west needed from vajrayana, from Buddhism, and from meditation in general. I respect his not being locked into his own traditions in a dogmatic way, but instead he was able to adapt and shapeshift while retaining the integrity of the dharma. That is something that most lamas could not possibly do in my opinion.. CTR was a truly rare creature in that regard.

 

I have come to love Shambhala Buddhism for what it is, and although I still study under a traditional Drikung Kagyu lama, I am active at my local Shambhala sangha. My girlfriend is a dorje kasung, if that means anything to anyone, and i am on the council. Its really one of the most amazing communities i have experienced in my bouncing around different sects and branches of Buddhism since i started exploring. Its funny because a lot of traditionalists knock it as "buddhism lite" and that sort of thing, but i find the shambhala community to be more engaged and involved with the community and each other than any other sangha i have sat with. I just went down to the county jail this morning and led meditation and dharma discussion with inmates, and the organization that runs this through the chaplains office is almost completely staffed by shambhala members, with some other sanghas thrown in here and there... i would say that most leadership is Shambhala and the volunteers are 50% shambhala.

 

Its strange because my Drikung Kagyu temple has a great lama and access to genuine vajrayana teachings and practices, empowerments and initiations etc, but the practitioners are just there to practice, and don't even make much eye contact with each other.. its something that a few people have acknowledged as "not a strong community". Its rife with spiritual materialism too.. westerners who think they are the shit because they have a lama and empowerments (at ~$50 a pop!)

 

don't get me wrong, i am all for supporting lamas, and empowerments are great. Its just ironic. And shambhala costs money too, but there is strong lineage energy there.. i understand that its not for everyone, but its not exactly buddhism lite.

 

anyway, i digress. those are my thoughts, and then some. I love shambhala, and chogyam, and am a big fan of his son Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche

[9th]

Trungpa was the real deal, but he was also an alcoholic - many people cannot wrap their minds around it but that kind of dissonance is an essential facet of yeshe cholwa, or the avadhut style. Most people are also probably unaware of his chronic pain condition caused by partial spinal paralysis he received during an auto accident in his youth - which he preferred to medicate with alcohol rather than opiates.

 

Of course "crazy wisdom" has got a bad reputation since then due to the abusive nature of other people who exploit others for personal gain, rather than exploiting themselves for universal gain. This was an easily predictable outcome, even in ancient times, which is why these practices were considered "secret" in those days. In our modern age, such "secrets" are almost impossible to keep in terms of public awareness. However that does not change the very real rarity and uniqueness of this particular method. In fact, it has almost reinforced the original cloud of obscurity surrounding such things, by way of plausible deniability - in other words, many people consider this phenomena to be simple neurosis at best, outright abusive psychopathy at worst, and all manner of things in-between. The actual validity and efficacy remains just as hidden and mysterious as it always has been.

 

The relationship between vajrayana (vehicle of the diamond thunderbolt) and shamanism runs very deep, because it was inspired by the meeting point between buddhism and the resurgent ancient tantric culture of india as well as the shamanistic practices of tibet. Another interesting parallel in this case is that of the heyoka.

 

 

 

 

When a vision comes from the thunder beings of the West, it comes with terror like a thunder storm; but when the storm of vision has passed, the world is greener and happier; for wherever the truth of vision comes upon the world, it is like a rain. The world, you see, is happier after the terror of the storm... you have noticed that truth comes into this world with two faces. One is sad with suffering, and the other laughs; but it is the same face, laughing or weeping... as lightning illuminates the dark, for it is the power of lightning that heyokas have.

—Black Elk

Sometimes I like to think this may be evidence of the Bering Strait migration (from yak to buffalo?):

[konchog uma]

My Reincarnation is a great film. I like how it portrays Norbu as really normal-seeming.. he has some crazy abilities.

 

I liked how his son's journey was right on time for what he needed to do for Dzogchen Community, as far as leadership training and organizational skills were concerned. It seemed like he was walking away from his own legacy but he was walking his own path according to his destiny. Strong lesson to never judge another based on relative concepts.

Edited February 18, 2013 by konchog uma

[9th]

9th, are you an avadhuta?

 

I dont know - Id prefer not to identify with anything, to be honest.. although if I had to admit something for convenience sake I would call myself a "practitioner" and leave it at that. I do strongly relate to the contrarian attitude, as well as the way of life that disregards social customs and outright flaunts taboo. I have observed that my style of interaction with any sangha (or group of cultivators) naturally flows in this way, but I dont regard it as a place to "hang my hat", so to speak. I am also fairly experienced with shamanism, and have had a life full of "strange" or non-ordinary events.

 

I enjoy learning about how such attitudes and methods have shaped or influenced traditions of many different kinds, because it does reveal deeper connections in my experience. There are threads of this methodology to be found all over the globe, in many different times and places.

 

Speaking of that, I recently learned of another group of which I can relate to as well, up to a certain point. They are sufis, and since I dont know very much about Islam, I have reservations on that front. I do not relate to the separative devotional attitude, or the strictly dualistic aspect of God apart from man. Perhaps they regard it as both and/or neither dualistic and/or non-dualistic, but that would be another matter, and again I dont know enough about this group to speak to it. But regarding their psychological and social stance, I very much agree with them.

 

 

The Malāmatiyya (ملاميه) or Malamatis are a Sufi (Muslim mystic) group that was active in 8th-century Samanid Khorasan in Iran (Encyclopædia Britannica). Believing in the value of self-blame, that piety should be a private matter, and that being held in good esteem would lead to worldly attachment, they concealed their knowledge and made sure their faults would be known, reminding them of their imperfection

The Arabic word malāma (ملامه) means "to blame". According to Annemarie Schimmel, "the Malāmatīs deliberately tried to draw the contempt of the world upon themselves by committing unseemly, even unlawful, actions, but they preserved perfect purity of thought and loved God without second thought".

Schimmel goes on to relate a story illustrative of such actions: "One of them was hailed by a large crowd when he entered a town; they tried to accompany the great saint; but on the road he publicly started urinating in an unlawful way so that all of them left him and no longer believed in his high spiritual rank"

 

and further:

 

 

 

The original inclination to hide their states (talbis al-hal) may be converted, by the same token, into an open manifestation of states. The 'folly' of the malamiyyah is not to be understood as a calculated method since it professes an element of inspiration, 'disposition' or 'state' (hal).¹⁵ The mystic is led to behave in a manner that may make no sense to him or to others, as if to portray the unintelligible kernel of relativity alive in the world. As a consequence, Ibn 'Ajiba defines the malamati as one who "hides his taste of sanctity and displays states that make people flee his company" (Sulami 1985, p. 263). This type of display will tend to situate the mystic in an apparently offensive position toward the shari'a, and in a disruptive situation vis-a-vis traditional societal practices (adab).

 

Forms, whether psychological, moral or social, are viewed as inadequate vis-a-vis spiritual realities. The world of forms, even though conventional, is a 'scandal" that must be scandalized in order to suggest 'real' normality. Malamati ordinariness can actually result in a bad reputation. According to Muhammad Parsa, a Naqshbandi figure from the 9-10th century, the fact that the Prophet was called a liar, a madman and a poet was a kind of veil with which God hid him from the eyes of the world.¹⁶ Along the same lines, the malamati bases his perspective on the idea that sanctity can only be 'abnormal' and 'shocking' in a world that is defined by the law of spiritual gravity. In other words, in a sick world, health can only appear in the guise of illness.

 

Moreover, on a microcosmic level the Spirit appears in all its 'poverty' and 'sickness' from the haughty perspective of the soul. Titus Burckhardt illustrates this in terms of the recurring mythological theme of the "royal hero who comes back to his kingdom under the guise of a poor stranger, or even of a mountebank or a mendicant" (Burckhardt 1980, p. 39). In a similar vein, Sulami quotes Abu-l-Hasan al Husri's comment that "if it were possible that there be a prophet (after Muhammad) in our days, he would be one of them (the malamatiyyah)" (Deladrière n.d. p. 13). A prophet could only be hidden or scandalous in a time when the world has become a spiritual wasteland. He would be totally inconspicuous or else so 'different' and 'marginal' that he would disconcert and unsettle even those - particularly those - who claim to be religious.

 

The malamiyyah are fundamentally saints 'in the world', not to say, 'worldly saints'. As Ibn 'Arabi (Futuhat, III, 53) describes them:

The

Malamiyyah

do not distinguish themselves in anything from any of the creatures of God, they are those whom one ignores. Their state is the state of ordinary people (

al- 'awam

), and it is for this reason that they have chosen this name for themselves and their disciples: they do not cease to blame their soul on the side of God, and they do not accomplish any action in such a way that their soul would rejoice for it, and they do so in order to be forgiven by God.

The malamati does not escape the world but works within it as a hidden warrior in the 'greater jihad.' He may have an inclination to solitude and retreat, but his destiny consists in being a spiritual presence in the world. Actually, by contrast with the usual Sufi practices, the malamiyyah way tends to de-emphasize the role of communal structures, organizations and collective practices, including majalis and sama' in spiritual life. It could even be said that malamiyyah spirituality is akin to the Sufism 'without a name' present in the early days of Islam, before Sufism became 'recognizable' as a set of institutions and specific collective practices.

 

The Naqshbandi and Shadhili orders are the most representative examples of this orientation in the world of Sufism, since they tend to place the emphasis on inner dhikr and social 'inconspicuousness'.¹⁷ In this sense, the malamiyyah embodies one of the most fundamental tenets of Islamic spirituality, a spirituality that radiates through an ordinary presence in the world. The splendor of the malamiyyah is purely inward and does not reveal itself outwardly in a spectacular fashion. The mystic is like the Prophet who "talks to people and goes to the markets." This way of being goes along with a staunch distrust of the most representative methodical supports of Sufism: spiritual retreat (khalwa) and spiritual concert (sama'). These practices are held in suspicion by most malami.

 

It is important to understand, in this respect, that malamiyyah objections to khalwa and sama' have nothing to do with the intrinsic value and goals of these methodical elements. They are merely directed at the dangers and abuses of these practices, but the very fact that the malami would focus on these dangers and abuses is indicative of their pessimistic approach to the human soul. In his Usul, Sulami criticizes the Sufi disciples "who made the error of living in isolation":

ted author="Sulami" source="1985, p. 182" title="Usul">They delude themselves in thinking that isolation and living in caves, mountains and deserts would secure them from the evil of their

nafs

and that this retreat could allow them to reach the degree of sanctity, because they do not know that the reason for Masters' retreat and isolation was their knowledge and the strength of their states. It is the divine attraction that attached them to Him and made them rich and independent from all that is not Him, so he who cannot be compared to them in terms of inner strength and depth of worship can only simulate isolation, thereby being unfair to himself and harming himself. (Sulami 1985, p. 182)

 

http://www.sufism.ru/eng/txts/malamati.htm

 

 

 

[9th]

Crazy wisdom in Tibetan is yeshe chölwa. Yeshe means "wisdom," and chölwa, literally, is "gone wild." The closest translation for chölwa that we could come up with is "crazy," which creates some further understanding. In this case "crazy" goes along with "wisdom"; the two words work together well. So it is craziness gone wise rather than wisdom gone crazy. So from that point of view, craziness is related with wisdom.

The notion of wisdom here is very touchy, and we will have to get into the technical aspect of the whole thing. Wisdom is jnana in Sanskrit and yeshe in Tibetan. Yeshe refers to perception or to enlightenment, which exists eternally. Ye means "primordial"; she means "knowing," knowing primordially, knowing already. The idea is that you haven't suddenly acquired knowledge. It isn't that somebody has just told you something. Knowledge already exists; it is here and we are beginning to tune into that situation. Such a thing actually does exist already. Wisdom isn't purely manufactured by scholars and scientists and books.

The notion of "crazy" is connected with individual situations. When wisdom has been completely and thoroughly achieved, then it has to relate with something. It has to relate with its own radiation, its own light. When light begins to shine, it reflects on things. That is how we know whether it is bright or dim. Therefore, when light is very brilliant, when it reflects on things properly and fully, we know that there is some kind of communication taking place. That communication is expressed by the intensity of that wisdom light shining through. That communication is traditionally known as buddha-activity or compassion.

Compassion is not so much feeling sorry for somebody, feeling that you are in a better place and somebody is in a worse place. Compassion is not having any hesitation to reflect your light on things. That reflection is an automatic and natural process, an organic process. Since light has no hesitation, no inhibition about reflecting on things, it does not discriminate whether to reflect on a pile of shit or on a pile of rock or on a pile of diamonds. It reflects on everything it faces.

So that non-hesitating light reflects choicelessly all the time; it shines brilliantly and constantly on things. Craziness means not discriminating and being without cowardice and paranoia.

It isn't our duty to go around the corner and convert someone. This is a different approach. Whatever needs to be reflected on is reflected on, and whatever needs to be done is done - on the spot.

Maybe that idea doesn't seem to be particularly crazy from your point of view. You might think that if somebody is crazy, he won't leave you any space at all. He will just roll all over you and vomit all over you and make diarrhea all over you. He will make you terribly crazy, too; he will extend his own craziness. But this craziness is not so neurotic; it's just basic craziness, which is fearlessness and not giving up anything. Not giving up anything is the basic point. At the same time, you are willing to work with what is there on the basis of its primordial wakeful quality. So that is the definition of crazy wisdom, which is sometimes known as wisdom gone wild.

Crazy wisdom is connected not only with reflecting on things, it is also connected with the space around things. The crazy wisdom person provides immense space or environment around things. That environment is completely thronged with the energy of its own fearless wisdom. When a crazy wisdom person decides to work with you, when he decides to liberate you, you become his victim. You have no way to run away from him. If you try to run backward, that space has been already covered; if you try to run forward, that space has also been covered. You have a feeling of choicelessness in regard to the particular teacher that you relate with, so your relationship becomes very natural and open. So the crazy wisdom teacher is somewhat dictatorial. The space he creates is thronged, filled with a strong charge of heavy enlightenment, heavy primordial sanity.

That is usually our problem. We can't handle too much sanity; we would like to have a little corner somewhere for neurosis, a little pocket, just a little puff here and there. If we run into too much sanity, we say, "Boy, it was heavy!"

- Chogyam Trungpa

[Jetsun]

It's a tricky business that Crazy Wisdom stuff, I read a book by a guy about Crazy Wisdom guru's who went to visit Ali Da Samraj in his Ashram and Ali Da slept with the authors wife supposedly as a Crazy Wisdom lesson in non attachment. All I saw in that lesson was abuse and taking advantage and the author admitted that it caused a major problem in their marriage and then removed the story from the later editions of his book so must have realised the shame in it.

[9th]

Well, Bubba Free John was a scam artist, not a "Crazy Wisdom guru"... whatever that is supposed to be.

 

You should have seen his original text for "Garbage and the Goddess", it probably would have tipped you off a bit better than even the second-hand accounts.

 

You may be referring to Ken Wilber, he actually endorsed Bubba for a while... and then later had to recant.

 

In the same way that your average person has no interest fighting in underground cage matches to the death, the average person has no real interest in actual "crazy wisdom". That doesnt stop the average person from dreaming of being a UFC superstar, though. The fame game has many names. Its all bullshit ego posing.

[C T]

From the average point of view, someone who has the good fortune to reach the complete cessation of neurosis does appear 'crazy'.

 

Some rare neuroses-free people have the ability to simply be spontaneous all the time, yet, their actions/speech are always in accord with any situation and people in it. Most times, when they are around, the place feels lighter, permeated by some tangible positive energy, and there is no room for any sort of discomfort or conflict to arise. On the contrary, the serenity increases, or, in the case of a looming conflict-bound situation , its often quickly diffused. These folks often see wider and deeper than us, and because of this, when they speak/act, those who are still ego-bound can often perceive some level of 'threat' or resistance, which, naturally, is par for the course.

 

Some 'crazy wisdom' folks can, in the process of diffusing a situation, hasten the conflict to a head so as to 'burn' the karma asap (sometimes in order to avoid the situation accumulating even more complexity), and this is where it gets tricky from the view of those looking in.

 

Its quite easy for us to judge who is the real deal and who is not, but in actual fact, if you think about it, sometimes its those we perceive as bogus and charlatan-like who are the real crazy-wisdom teachers, for without them, how do we know we are still caught up in deep dualistic notions? Hence, if our wisdom increases, we allow such individuals to lead us to taste greater equanimity, and could be thankful for it.

 

In Vajrayana, for example, practitioners get to work with various protectors and yidams for good reason. These supporting deities are there to help bring our habits and neuroticism to light, and we gradually learn to work with transforming said patterns into wisdom mind, speech and actions. When we begin to taste the fruit of this transformation taking root, yes, we too can reflect a little craziness then. Its obvious, isn't it?

[9th]

Some 'crazy wisdom' folks can, in the process of diffusing a situation, hasten the conflict to a head so as to 'burn' the karma asap (sometimes in order to avoid the situation accumulating even more complexity), and this is where it gets tricky from the view of those looking in.

 

This is a good indication of such activity.

 

 

 

 

Dorje Tröllö is the crazy wisdom manifestation of Padmasambhava – the Second Buddha. Crazy Wisdom (yeshé ’cholwa – ye shes ’chol ba) is the style of non-dual activity, which cuts through dualistic manipulations in their most subtle forms.

 

Ngak’chang Rinpoche comments: When self-oriented spiritual conceit attempts to appropriate spiritual involvement as part of its manipulative strategy, the yeshé ’cholwa Lama encourages the disciple to increase the volume of his or her neurosis until it implodes. The yeshé ’cholwa Lama often destroys conventional spiritual reference points in order to move the disciple beyond fixed habit patterns. The tigress displays unrestrained ferocity. The tigress purveys the terror of the unknown and unknowable. She is ruthlessly playful and playfully ruthless – she is the ground experience of yeshé ’cholwa. Yeshé ’cholwa is not easily understood in the West even by those who espouse Vajrayana Buddhism. There are few people who are actually open to forgoing emotional anesthetic in respect of the advice and guidance of a Lama. There is often great interest in Dorje Tröllö and yeshé ’cholwa – but the pragmatics of ‘wisdom gone wild’ often offend the aspect of narcissism which likes to hide behind logic and mundane reasonability. As long as the Lama is subject to the tyranny of logical analysis and coherent accountability – yeshé cholwa is non-functional.

 

 

 

Khandro Déchen points out:

 

Like the Khordong gTér Dorje Tröllö, this one has a five skull crown and upward flying hair, but he faces to the left – as does the Düd’jom gTér Dorje Tröllö. The Aro gTér Dorje Tröllö rides a tigress which is larger than the usual mount, because she is the powerful sangyum Tashi Chhi’drèn and therefore shown in dynamic upward leaping form. Unlike the Khordong gTér Dorje Tröllö and the Düd’jom gTér Dorje Tröllö, the Aro gTér Dorje Tröllö carries four phurbas—two in his waist sash and one in each hand—which destroy the four philosophical extremes of monism, dualism, nihilism, and eternalism. The tigress possesses a wisdom eye on her forehead in display of the fact that she is also a yidam. This is a characteristic of the Aro gTér and the third wisdom eye can be found on every animal which acts as a mount for the major yidam.

[Simple_Jack]

This is a good indication of such activity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Khandro Déchen points out:

 

Like the Khordong gTér Dorje Tröllö, this one has a five skull crown and upward flying hair, but he faces to the left – as does the Düd’jom gTér Dorje Tröllö. The Aro gTér Dorje Tröllö rides a tigress which is larger than the usual mount, because she is the powerful sangyum Tashi Chhi’drèn and therefore shown in dynamic upward leaping form. Unlike the Khordong gTér Dorje Tröllö and the Düd’jom gTér Dorje Tröllö, the Aro gTér Dorje Tröllö carries four phurbas—two in his waist sash and one in each hand—which destroy the four philosophical extremes of monism, dualism, nihilism, and eternalism. The tigress possesses a wisdom eye on her forehead in display of the fact that she is also a yidam. This is a characteristic of the Aro gTér and the third wisdom eye can be found on every animal which acts as a mount for the major yidam.

Lol, I noticed that you quoted this from the "Aro gTer" people.

[9th]

Lol, I noticed that you quoted this from the "Aro gTer" people.

 

Yes, you are quite observant.

[RongzomFan]

Yes, you are quite observant.

 

 

This group was predicted by Dudjom Lingpa to be deviant and heretical. Or something like that.

Edited February 24, 2013 by alwayson

[Simple_Jack]

This group was predicted by Dudjom Lingpa to be deviant and heretical. Or something like that.

That's interesting. Was this ever mentioned by Dudjom Rinpoche or anyone else within the Dudjom Tersar lineage?

[RongzomFan]

I'll PM you.

[9th]

Debates regarding "heresy" and the "one true god" and all of that are unrelated to actual practice as discussed in this thread. If that is how you wish to spend your time and energy, it is certainly your choice.

 

In terms of vipassana, I urge you to discover why you are so interested in such classifications.

[RongzomFan]

the "one true god"

 

I am not aware of any Buddhism that subscribes to a Creator in the first place. If there is let me know.

[9th]

I am not aware of any Buddhism that subscribes to a Creator in the first place. If there is let me know.

 

 

The impulse to ascribe "heresy" is derived from the same source of such ideology. It is a human problem which is not limited to any particular religion or tradition.

 

The supposed realization of institutional superiority has nothing to do with real practice... but that will only become clear if you are able to understand that Guatama himself did not teach "Buddhism". In that regard, the institutionalized idea of "going against Buddhism" becomes obvious in its stark irony.

[Simple_Jack]

The impulse to ascribe "heresy" is derived from the same source of such ideology. It is a human problem which is not limited to any particular religion or tradition.

 

The supposed realization of institutional superiority has nothing to do with real practice... but that will only become clear if you are able to understand that Guatama himself did not teach "Buddhism". In that regard, the institutionalized idea of "going against Buddhism" becomes obvious in its stark irony.

 

 

वेद प्रामाण्यं कस्य चित् कर्तृवादः स्नाने धर्मेच्छा जातिवादाव लेपः|

संतापारंभः पापहानाय चेति ध्वस्तप्रज्ञानां पञ्च लिङगानि जाड्ये||

Believing that the Veda are standard (holy or divine), believing in a Creator for the world,

Bathing in holy waters for gaining punya, having pride (vanity) about one's caste,

Performing penance to absolve sins,

Are the five symptoms of having lost one's sanity.

- Dharmakirti, a 7th century Buddhist philosopher

[9th]

 

 

'And if anyone were to say to a monk whose mind was thus freed: "The Tathāgata exists after death", that would be [seen by him as] a wrong opinion and unfitting, likewise: "The Tathāgata does not exist...,both exists and does not exist..., neither exists nor does not exist after death." Why so? As far, Ānanda, as designation and the range of designation reaches, as far as language and the range of language reaches, as far as concepts and the range of concepts reaches, as far as understanding and the range of understanding reaches, as far as the cycle reaches and revolves - that monk is liberated from all that by super-knowledge, and to maintain that such a liberated monk does not know and see would be a wrong view and incorrect.

- from the Mahānidāna Sutta