Brand New Wu Wei Thread

[Marblehead]

To run a government, it is impossible not to administer any rules. What LaoTze was suggesting "rule with Wu Wei", he simply meant administer decrees to a minimal and let the people be.

Chaung Tzu supported this when he said (I paraphrase) The more laws (rules) a society has the more criminals it will have.

[flowing hands]

IMO, its best not to get caught up in concepts. In 'wayism' or 'pathism' there are many if not major contradictions.

 

"the world is ruled by not interfering"

But the world is brought back to balance by interfering. This is why Li Erh tells us not to hold onto a set concept of what 'wayism' is and is not. The way that I tread is not the way that someone else may tread and so taking 'no action' is not the taking of no action that someone else may not take. It is therefore futile for anyone with even a modicum of real understanding to try and define and pin down an exact definition of the suggested 'wu wei'. I think it is important to remember that Li Erh talked about the 'way' as his personal observation of the natural laws that cover both matter and spirit, of the cultivation of wisdom and spiritual perfection and within this, is cultural understandings. But the 'way' is certainly not limited by culture or race and is easily understood by simple observation without concepts that are tied up in culture.

[Marblehead]

Nice post Flowing Hands and what you have said is very true, IMO.

 

I hope eventually to be able to talk about expolding stars and the creation of new solar systems resulting from the violence.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

....

 

Decrees will be made by those who need to make them, when they need to make them, but it is not for the person of Dao to have to rely on them. He avoids problems before they happen by Wu Wei, non-interference et all...

 

Of course, keep in mind too that "government" is often meant as a verb.

 

Yes, I can see how one sided the above could read, though at the same time, I'm mainly just talking about the usage of the sentence in this particular chapter.

 

I agree that there are times when rules or whatnot need to be made and even enforced. Seems to me that chapter 3 is mainly talking about Being in a way that avoids the necessity for this though. Naturally, it would be illogical to enforce non-enforcement.

[winniepooh_ank]

Wu Wei is neither non-action nor effortless action. Wu Wei is the action that does not create karma (or kefaret in Islam)

 

How is it possible? For instance, a Samurai killing his enemy and not creating karma?

 

I may explain this from an anecdote from history of Islam.

 

Hazrat Ali was in a war and he made his opponent fall down. Before he can kill his opponent, the man spit on Hazrat Ali's face. Then, Hazrat Ali withdrew his sword and did not kill the man. The man asked the reason for not being killed. "I was fighting against you for a just cause, we are in a war and I am fighting for the will of Allah. But when you spit on my face, I got angry, I can not kill you for my self (nafs), I am not a murderer" was his reply. This is Wu Wei

[dawei]

To run a government, it is impossible not to administer any rules. What LaoTze was suggesting "rule with Wu Wei", he simply meant administer decrees to a minimal and let the people be.

So one application is: Do less and accomplish more

[dawei]

for the sake of wu wei

[Then,] there is nothing that cannot be done(finished, accomplished, completed and etc.....)

 

could "rule:without:no:act of government/administration" not mean "Do not administer rules"?

 

I think that would make more sense

for the sake of wu wei

do not administer rules

 

I don't think that meaning is lost in:

 

"The lack of action in this way effects the desired change

Then neither rules nor their implementation will have to occur."

But for the sake of translation, "for the sake of" does not need to be stated... it is an embedded understanding or aspect of the 'action'.