Meaning clear light

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi,

I was reading Franklin Merrell-Wolff's book called "Experience and Philosophy".

I came to a part where he was discussing the disavantages of intellectual evolution, the part where he says this:

Hence, when a man learns of a Transcendental Consciousness and he seeks to Realize This, his first effort, rather naturally, is in the direction of a more complex ideology. The greater the intellectual evolution of an individual, the more likely is this to be the case. And this explains why it is so often just the able men who have most difficulty in effecting the Transition. Now, the effective focusing of consciousness is precisely in the diametrically opposite direction. It is toward the subjective movement in the subject-object manifold, and this possesses the simplicity of a point. It is easily overlooked just because of its extreme simplicity. Yet it remains true that if the able man can succeed in finding this, he can reap a richer harvest, both for himself, individually, and for others, than is true in the case of those of inferior ability.

 

Somehow, those words struck home. I lifted my head for a second, and focused on the 'extreme simplicity' of perception, the area without conceptual thought. I focused my eyes straight ahead and tried to sense the extremely simple in my awareness, in the space directly before my sight. Suddenly, a blob of what I would describe as clear waterous vapour appeared in my visual field. It was luminous, clear, like water and filled with love, joy, bliss and peace. It was about 3 feet wide, elongated horizontally and it felt like there was a divine presence in it, something alive. The phenomenon lasted about 20 seconds.. I resumed my reading, but gradually put the book down and started to ponder what had just happened.

 

The blob of clear water that had presented itself to me, full of bliss, love, joy and peace was not a vision, nor was it an imagination. I focused on what I had done to cause this appearance. What I had done is become very simple in my sight and mind. Just easily looking through the eyes, but before the eyes see anything or the mind has time to grasp at it. And sure enough it appeared again, and then again.

 

For the evening's meditation I decided to re-enact the same state of simple mind. It was very easy to do and the clear water of bliss, joy, love and peace appeared to me once again. It had a glorious presence. The effect that it produced on the body was like a shower of goose bumps, tingles and extremely blissful energy flows. I thought I had finally found God. I thought, it is true. God is right before your eyes, all of the time, every place, everywhere.

 

I was enjoying myself immensely. My mind kept trying to produce contrary thoughts and speculative conceptualizations but I told it to stop, to go away. I just wanted to bathe in the presence.

 

Then, this voice came out of my head and it asked "May I drink from the River of Life?". The clear water responded and said "Yes". After that, the clear water merged with my body and I felt currents of energy going up and down my spine, from the coccyx to the top of the head. Both ways, up and down. It was so blissful I could harldy contain myself. My whole body was a field of divine love and nourishment. This effect lasted for a few minutes after which time I was so overjoyed and greatful. My mind kept resonating "My search is over. I've finally found it. I've found God. He was always there!"

 

When the sensations of the energy coursing up and down my spine finally ceased, I noticed a very peculiar sensation in the center of the chest around the heart chakra. It was cool! It felt like I had a cool peaceful ball of liquid ice about 4 inches in diameter in the center of my chest. Cool, refreshing, scintilating. I've never felt that before.

 

What I am curious about is this. Is this blob of clear waterous vapour, filled with love, bliss, joy and peace called the "meaning clear light" in Buddism? Any Buddhist experts with a similar experience out there?

 

TI

[idiot_stimpy]

I lifted my head for a second, and focused on the 'extreme simplicity' of perception, the area without conceptual thought.

 

Keep going along these lines.

[Birch]

Mezotes!

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi,

Since that episode, I have had a few more experiences. I have tried to recreate the 'clear light' experience but have not been successful.

 

However, because of learning that eyes-open meditation is a way to connect the inner consciousness with the outer, I was focusing on the third eye, with eyes partially closed, while walking around during a break at work one day. The next day, in the morning while I was taking a shower, I bent over to soap my left foot and all of a sudden every thing became crystal clear. My visual field was luminescent. Every detail in my visual field sparkled and shone. I was amazed. I also noticed that there was not a single thought in my head. I also noticed that the whole visual field felt like 'me', like I had superimposed the sense of me-ness over the scene of the leg, the bathtub and walls etc..

 

I stood up straight and the phenomenon went away. I thought, "Wow"! Then I proceeded to bend over in order to soap down my left foot again. The same state happened again! If I had to say what caused it, I would say that it was almost like a clear waterous awareness came out from the front of my face and made the scene crystal clear, sparkly and dead silent. Haven't been able to recreate that but I take it as a good sign, similar to satori moments I've had before.

 

I've also been listening to many podcasts by B. Alan Wallace and re-reading his books. It has been very helpful.

A while ago I clued into 'vividness'. Then, after listening to the Spring 2010 podcasts of Alan Wallace's retreats I finally understood that consciousness is luminous. Yesterday, I was sitting in my car by the river. I had just finished listening to a most excellent podcast by Alan Wallace about rigpa. I had done the meditation at the start of the podcast and came upon the realization that the luminosity of the mind is true. It shines. It radiates. As I sat there a strange phenomenon occured. The inside of my head started to brighten up to the point where I could see thoughts as bright as if I were looking through normal vision. What a rush! The thoughts that I saw were very clear, bright and distinct, like streams of video floating by. Then, struck down by the amazement and excitement, the effect went away.

 

Then, today, I listened to a podcast from Alan Wallace about "Integrated Vipashyana", and in it he mentions that the luminosity of the mind can become so bright that it appears with the same clarity and vividness as normal reality! Wow! I think I'm on the right track.

 

Here is the podcast page for the "Integrated Vipashyana" : http://podcasts.sbin...ring2011/?p=206

 

You know, I can't say enough about Alan Wallace. He is certainly extremely intelligent, has a vocabulary that blows me away and is very clear in his concepts and instructions. His fluency in Tibetan and English is a great boon to anyone whom wishes to get very clear instruction and understanding of the Buddhist teachings.

 

This talk about rigpa is so dense and enlightening that I am very grateful to have discovered it. The first 25 minutes of this podcast is a meditation. The discussion follows after that..

http://podcasts.sbin...ring2011/?p=204

 

This is the main page for the podcasts. I have downloaded all retreats from 2012 to 2010 on to my iphone and ipod and have been listening to them for weeks now.

http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/

 

This is a good talk about some of the practices, like flicking thoughts away, or letting them dissolve. Awareness of awareness..

http://podcasts.sbin...of-awareness-4/

 

 

I own 5 or 6 of Alan Wallace's books. The one I am rereading now is called "Stilling the Mind -Shamtha Teachings from Dudjom Lingpa's Vajra Essence. This is an excellent book. Can't say enough about it! Close to the end of the book, Alan explains the Dzogchen practice of "resting the mind in the natural state, without distraction, without grasping. He explains about rigpa vs the substrate conscoiusness, how the mind arises and dissolves back into the substrate. How, as the mind calms the substrate consciousness will release experiences and mental states. He even has a section called "Signs of Progress" wherein he list the various experiences that a practitioner may encounter. Most of them sound like schizophrenic/psychotic episodes...!

 

Here is the first sign of progress:

 

- the impression that all your thoughts are wreaking havoc in your body, speech, and mind, like boulders rolling down a steep mountain, crushing and destroying everything it their path.

 

His book called "The Four Immeasurables" has an excellent step-by-step instruction on achieving Shamatha. His book called "Mind in The Balance" is also an excellent book. It contains exercises to help the mind rest in the natural state. In one exercise, you move your attention/awareness around, around the body, around the location you are sitting in.

I've incorporated this practice into my regular meditation sessions. I've been meditating 2 to 3 hours per day for a while now.

 

First I visualize that I can see right through my eyes and right through walls and solid objects. Then I move that visual field around the body, pretending I can see the back alley, the street outside, the houses, the pavement etc. I go around from left, around my back and then to the right. Then I reverse the rotation. Then I move my attention to the eastern horizon and expand it so my attention is in space. Then I move it upwards and around, to the top (seeing all the stars and universes), and then around the earth and back. Then I move my attention in close circles around the body, like a fly that is buzzing around. By the time I have finished moving my attention around like that, not only is the mind and body so calm and peaceful, but the state is highly ecstatic and blissful too. Then I go on to Anapanasati practice..

 

What I have discovered is that it is highly pleasurable to move the attention around the body, on the tips of the chakras, sort of like a very quick MC Orbit, but staying about 7 inches outside of the body and without the breathing part.

 

Also, just a point if you want to try the "moving of attention around" practice, you have to keep moving the attention quick enough so that the mind doesn't have time to grasp anything. If you sit too long in one spot, the conceptual mind kicks in and interferes. If you move onto a different location or point of attention every second, that seems to be fast enough to prevent my mind from conceptualizing. Or, just keep moving your attention, doesn't matter how quickly, just don't stop.

 

I am very grateful for Alan Wallace's books and podcasts.

Perhaps you may find some use too.

 

Anamatva, (I know you are going to read this) , have you ever heard of Alan Wallace? Comments? Have you experienced the luminosity of the mind?

 

TI

 

Oh WOW! They have just released the Fall 2012 podcasts from the retreat!

http://podcasts.sbinstitute.com/fall2012/

 

Oh WOW! One of the questions in the 08 podcast is:

"Q2. Is the experience of prana (lelung) upon achieving shamatha the same as kundalini?


"

Haven't listened to it yet, just finishing downloading now..

Edited August 30, 2012 by Tibetan_Ice

[xabir2005]

Hi,

Since that episode, I have had a few more experiences. I have tried to recreate the 'clear light' experience but have not been successful.

 

However, because of learning that eyes-open meditation is a way to connect the inner consciousness with the outer, I was focusing on the third eye, with eyes partially closed, while walking around during a break at work one day. The next day, in the morning while I was taking a shower, I bent over to soap my left foot and all of a sudden every thing became crystal clear. My visual field was luminescent. Every detail in my visual field sparkled and shone. I was amazed. I also noticed that there was not a single thought in my head. I also noticed that the whole visual field felt like 'me', like I had superimposed the sense of me-ness over the scene of the leg, the bathtub and walls etc..

 

I stood up straight and the phenomenon went away. I thought, "Wow"! Then I proceeded to bend over in order to soap down my left foot again. The same state happened again! If I had to say what caused it, I would say that it was almost like a clear waterous awareness came out from the front of my face and made the scene crystal clear, sparkly and dead silent. Haven't been able to recreate that but I take it as a good sign, similar to satori moments I've had before.

Sounds like the intensity of luminosity being experienced. This can be experienced dualistically or non-dualistically however. Do you feel like the separate observer has dissolved and fused into everything or is there still a sense of separation?*

 

*(Something I wrote back in 01 Dec 2009, it is the experience of the intensity of luminosity but still dualistic):

I wrote: I think 'What is it' is a powerful koan and pointer. Whatever you say isn't It (it's your interpretation of It, which thus is not It), you can only 'know' it by becoming ONE with it. Actually there is not even a becoming one, there is only actually IT, our mind merely projects separation.

When we experience Awareness directly without using our thoughts, everything is experienced as having a magical, alive, shimmery, fresh, amazing and blissful quality to it. Life is not not the 'boring and ordinary' as the mind interpretes it, even the most ordinary things (such as eating, walking, etc) just feels awesome. You will be naturally attracted, pulled towards the pristine awareness than to stressful thoughts. The ego will melt in the wonder and majesty of awareness. Awareness will literally blow your mind away. One moment I was just dreaming stressful thoughts, the other moment I 'woke up' and was totally drawn to Awareness itself... there was no compulsion for me to go back to the dream. It's just such a huge contrast. Sometimes it's so blissful that people around me wonder why I'm smiling. But surely I'm not mad... it's mad to not notice Life... hahaha

-----------

I was reading this interview by Eckhart Tolle just now and thought to myself "Oh my god, that's exactly the same order as I have experienced it". First I was lost in suffering thoughts, then I had a compulsion to transcend the thoughts as I can't stand them and what I did is precisely the same: asking Who am I? Then everything was dropped off and what remained was just this I AM, this beingness that doesn't have a form but is clearly present. Afterwards I'm just absorbed in this formlessness and next there was just this amazing clarity and experiencing everything as if like a miracle with almost no thoughts, like he said, 90% of the thoughts gone. There's just no more interest in the thought, I'm just basking in wonder of pure awareness, everything ordinary becomes wonderful. I'm only interested in 'feeling' everything than thinking about it.

And I too felt that I needed to write it down "in case it leaves me or I lose it", and that is why I wrote it here. The experience isn't equally intense in all moments of my life, but this 'peak experience' is actually not a distant experience but is something accessible at any moment (there's only One) Right Now in the Present Moment, Pure Awareness is the ever-present shining sun that can never be lost. It just becomes temporarily obscured as we become fixated on thoughts, or become distracted... if we just turn the light around we discover this state is our natural state and never leaves.

 

The thought that Eckhart Tolle's intro chapter in The Power of Now was very similar to mine did came to mind on that night as I was writing the post, but it never occured to me that the order it all unfolded was actually similar.

[C T]

There's just no more interest in the thought, I'm just basking in wonder of pure awareness, everything ordinary becomes wonderful.

Pure awareness for me means the complete dropping off of the 'doer' aspect... its quite fun, seeing and doing things yet with no ownership... the doing and seeing, and thinking, feeling, that kind of way, all gets done effortlessly. Someone in the next house eats a sandwich and then a window opens in the opposite house... simultaneously, the kid down the road then starts roller-skating, rain falls, thunder rolls... all happening in a synchronistic fashion, in so much as one thing arising brings about the arising of other things -- then, seeing and noticing the observing self, the self with tendencies, the self which grasps and shuns, also becomes just another arising, inseparably linked to every other arising. After a while, one can stop asking the question, 'Who am i'. Then the need to force any change becomes unnecessary. In time, a new kind of knowingness is birthed, one hears anew, sees anew, feels more -- like sometimes, one gets to hear the subtle sound of dew forming on a blade of grass in the early morn which, in all earnestness, does just enough to gently stir one from deep sleep.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Sounds like the intensity of luminosity being experienced. This can be experienced dualistically or non-dualistically however. Do you feel like the separate observer has dissolved and fused into everything or is there still a sense of separation?*

 

*(Something I wrote back in 01 Dec 2009, it is the experience of the intensity of luminosity but still dualistic):

I wrote: I think 'What is it' is a powerful koan and pointer. Whatever you say isn't It (it's your interpretation of It, which thus is not It), you can only 'know' it by becoming ONE with it. Actually there is not even a becoming one, there is only actually IT, our mind merely projects separation.

When we experience Awareness directly without using our thoughts, everything is experienced as having a magical, alive, shimmery, fresh, amazing and blissful quality to it. Life is not not the 'boring and ordinary' as the mind interpretes it, even the most ordinary things (such as eating, walking, etc) just feels awesome. You will be naturally attracted, pulled towards the pristine awareness than to stressful thoughts. The ego will melt in the wonder and majesty of awareness. Awareness will literally blow your mind away. One moment I was just dreaming stressful thoughts, the other moment I 'woke up' and was totally drawn to Awareness itself... there was no compulsion for me to go back to the dream. It's just such a huge contrast. Sometimes it's so blissful that people around me wonder why I'm smiling. But surely I'm not mad... it's mad to not notice Life... hahaha

-----------

I was reading this interview by Eckhart Tolle just now and thought to myself "Oh my god, that's exactly the same order as I have experienced it". First I was lost in suffering thoughts, then I had a compulsion to transcend the thoughts as I can't stand them and what I did is precisely the same: asking Who am I? Then everything was dropped off and what remained was just this I AM, this beingness that doesn't have a form but is clearly present. Afterwards I'm just absorbed in this formlessness and next there was just this amazing clarity and experiencing everything as if like a miracle with almost no thoughts, like he said, 90% of the thoughts gone. There's just no more interest in the thought, I'm just basking in wonder of pure awareness, everything ordinary becomes wonderful. I'm only interested in 'feeling' everything than thinking about it.

And I too felt that I needed to write it down "in case it leaves me or I lose it", and that is why I wrote it here. The experience isn't equally intense in all moments of my life, but this 'peak experience' is actually not a distant experience but is something accessible at any moment (there's only One) Right Now in the Present Moment, Pure Awareness is the ever-present shining sun that can never be lost. It just becomes temporarily obscured as we become fixated on thoughts, or become distracted... if we just turn the light around we discover this state is our natural state and never leaves.

 

The thought that Eckhart Tolle's intro chapter in The Power of Now was very similar to mine did came to mind on that night as I was writing the post, but it never occured to me that the order it all unfolded was actually similar.

 

Hi Xabir

Thank you so much for your post.

 

When I first read what you have written, I had a very big rush which lasted a few hours.

 

I don't know what non-dualism is because I have never made an association with a practical experience to the term. Maybe it is non-dualism, if non-dualism means that it 'feels' like you are everything. When I was looking at the leg and the bathtub, it felt like I was the leg and bathtub, and the tiles and the soap dish. Normally that feeling of "me" sits behind my eyes, somewhere in the center of my head, but in this case, that "me" had expanded to encompass the whole scene. There was no separation. There was no watcher, it was as if the watcher was everything, if that makes sense. I felt like I had become the whole scene. There was a flavor of "me" that was very distinct and it was permeating everything.

 

And yes, as soon as the mind or conceptual mind came back in, the state was lost. The strange thing about it is that the conceptual mind seems to be located behind the event of 'oneness' (if I can call that state that), and I've tried to push it back but with no success. It comes forwards and then the clarity, the luminescence, the silence all vanish. It appears to me that the conceptual mind is a very potent veil which hides this phenomenon.

 

Xabir, do you live in that state of luminescence all of the time? Does it come and go or have you stabilized in it? It is such a wonderful state, I wish I could spend more time in it and get to know it better. I wish I knew how to turn it on and keep it on!!

 

For you, did it 'turn on and stay on" the first time you discovered it or did it turn on and off remittantly? As you've said, how does one "turn the light around"? I do many meditations of turning my attention back around towards the sense or feeling of "I" behind my eyes, somewhere in the center of my head. My practice is "if I can see, hear or feel something, to turn the attention to whatever is doing the apprehending. Abiding in the "I". Is that what you mean by turning the light around?

 

If that state is what Eckart Tolle refers to as "presence", I can see why it is such a big deal. If I could remain in that state I think I too would sit on a park bench with a very big smile on my face for a few years like he did.

 

TI

Edited August 31, 2012 by Tibetan_Ice

[Tibetan_Ice]

Pure awareness for me means the complete dropping off of the 'doer' aspect... its quite fun, seeing and doing things yet with no ownership... the doing and seeing, and thinking, feeling, that kind of way, all gets done effortlessly. Someone in the next house eats a sandwich and then a window opens in the opposite house... simultaneously, the kid down the road then starts roller-skating, rain falls, thunder rolls... all happening in a synchronistic fashion, in so much as one thing arising brings about the arising of other things -- then, seeing and noticing the observing self, the self with tendencies, the self which grasps and shuns, also becomes just another arising, inseparably linked to every other arising. After a while, one can stop asking the question, 'Who am i'. Then the need to force any change becomes unnecessary. In time, a new kind of knowingness is birthed, one hears anew, sees anew, feels more -- like sometimes, one gets to hear the subtle sound of dew forming on a blade of grass in the early morn which, in all earnestness, does just enough to gently stir one from deep sleep.

 

Hi C T

 

You have experienced this state too?

 

Is it permanent?

 

How did you arrive at it?

 

Is it rigpa? Do you practice Dzogchen?

 

TI

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi, :)

 

Three smiles! I found this post yesterday. It explains this phenomenon of the clear waterous substance coming out of the face making the world seem bright, shiny, blissfull with the characteristic one taste of "me". !!! I have been calling these episodes "satori" moments..

 

link: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/3245880;jsessionid=9E16BAEDD9CE1D66EEF6C2FBE94229BD

 

Posted by Peter Jackson from the Dzogchen practice group - [email protected]

 

The Map

 

I want to share how the whole thing fits together from the Dzogchen point of view and my experience regarding awareness, energy, mind, self and liberation. From engaging in various methods from several different traditions, I have enough experience to write about the whole process from beginning to end. I am not saying that one has to engage in meditation or energy practices. But I will teach whatever is necessary so that what I am sharing below can be realized by anyone. There are many remedies for various "stuck points". But we have to all be using the same map or at least be familiar with it. What I am sharing here I don't believe you will be able to find very available on the open market. Most is considered to be the secret teachings of Tibetan Dzogchen, not broadly known. If interested, we can work through specific Dzogchen practices that trigger the Clear Light of Awareness to become revealed in consciousness.

 

Here's how it works: at first the person is seeking to find his enlightened nature within their own consciousness. They may receive a pointing out instruction regarding the nature of "changeless awareness". But they may only understand intellectually that their identity is not the body or mind. There was no total shift in perspective. This gives them a certain degree of relaxation as though the intellect had acquired its goal of understanding, it can now relax. But that intellectual insight does not drive deep enough into the energy contraction remaining in the subtle body and physical body, hence it is short lived. There was just a flash of insight but no total transformation of the self-contraction and mind. By recognizing that subtle flash of insight again and again, and learning to rest as just being the naked "observingess" in all experience, thoughts and mental engagement become more calm and less captivating. As a result our inner subtle body of chakras, channels and subtle energy called chi or prana, all begin to relax and expand. It is the energy contraction within the inner subtle body that gives the "feeling" of being a localized self within and as a body. We're not talking about the concept of self now, we are talking about how its "feels" on a sensory level. When the inner subtle body relaxes, because the mind relaxes, we experience a "feeling" of expansiveness, greater clarity, and well-being.

 

Understanding gives us insight but may have no affect on the "feeling tone" of inner experience. We "get it" but no bliss or stable joy. Hence meditation may help in bringing the mind into a more calm state, and that is a good thing because the rest follows organically.

 

This would normally be a model of yoga where the goal is calming and clarification of the mind and a deep relaxing of the body. In yoga when this is accomplished, the inner channels and chakras will expand and open. If this relaxing process is allowed to continue, eventually subtle energies will begin to flow from the bottom of the spine to the crown that may result in kundalini enlightenment. That is considered the end of the path in yoga. However in Tibetan Dzogchen, that is where our practice begins.

 

When the chakras are fully relaxed, open and expansive, another more subtle energy body is revealed within. It's the inner Body of Light or Clear Light. It's much more subtle than the chakras and subtle energy channels of subtle body. Prana, chi or kundalini does not flow in these subtle light channels, only Clear Light. The channels are themselves crystalline and transparent. The main crystal channel, called "Kati" in Tibetan, flows from the innermost center of the heart chakra, up through the central channel into the brain. It arcs forward and splits into two channels ending at the very center of the pupils. The Clear Light is centered in the heart chakra, the seat of Being. Clear Light Awareness is "seated" in the brain. It is the innermost center of the crown chakra. When the Light Channels are completely relaxed, the Clear Light in the heart will reflect upward and shine out the eyes. Other Light Channels flow upward filling the entire area of the brain. As the Clear Light is reflected into the brain through the microscopic network of Light Channels, consciousness is transformed into Clear Light Awareness. We feel utterly transparent and free of any sense of localization or physical identity when this happens. Our Awareness seems poised within our eyes and our skull seems transparent. The Self-Knowing Wisdom of Clear Light is suddenly revealed as the very nature of Clear Light Itself. All doubts are absent and there is no self in Clear Light Awareness as the mind and consciousness have been transformed into Clear Light as well. In Tibetan this state of being is called "Rigpa" which means both awareness and its wisdom. This is our goal in practice.

 

By remaining relaxed completely, the Light Channels will remain open and our state will continue to be the Beingness of Clear Light Awareness. As the Clear Light continues to flow into the Light Channels in the brain, it will eventually begin to overflow downward into the entire body, revealing the body to be transparent as well. The outer world will still be visible but clearly transparent like a giant crystal hologram floating in space. "Inside and outside" well no longer apply, nor do center or fringe. So we simply rest as what we are. When the mind begins to engage in thinking and conceptualizing again, that subtle mental grasping is enough of a contraction to cause the very delicate Light Channels to close. When that happens the lights go out, so to speak. Then we drop the concepts and mental grasping, and just deeply relax until the Light Channels blossom again. Our goal is to find ourselves always fully relaxed as Clear Light Awareness. We are simply relaxed in our Natural State, timelessly free, radiating intrinsic compassion, love and spontaneous creativity within the Natural Bliss of our own Being. Remember we are only modifying our energy, the Clear Light of Awareness is always unchanging, but its aura of energy can contract and give a sense of localization. That contraction and localization is only an "experience" and in no way modifies our Beingness. But I think we prefer the open state as opposed to the contracted… but our essential Beingness enjoys it all as pure play.

 

Not everyone has to engage in any type of practice in order to open the Light Channels. Many people already see from their heart, as the Clear Light of Awarenesss. They respond really well to pointers to Awareness. Also those whose Light Channels are somewhat open can really benefit from pointing out methods. But those that are really contracted and "shut in", some work may need to be done first, like meditation, therapy or chakra work. But once the full arising of Clear Light Awareness occurs, that occurrence becomes one's reference of practice. It may first occur from just a simple pointing out as to the true nature of awareness. Or it may take months or years of preliminary work to relieve the contraction. Its not that Awareness can be obstacled by anything, but rather that its Wisdom and Self-Recognition does not occur in the contracted state. That Wisdom Energy has transformed into mind and self. That's why when the self-mind-energy dissolves, the Wisdom is automatically known. The Wisdom Energy was compressed and transformed into dualistic mind by the intense gravity of the "I" concept. All the energy becomes contracted around the "I" concept. No "I" concept, no contraction. No contraction, sheer bliss…

 

The bolding is mine.

 

This is quite a revelation for me as different parts of that post relate to several experiences that I've had over the years. I feel very grateful that someone has actually posted that topic.

 

 

TI

[C T]

Very easy-to-grasp, detailed article on the process of reaching the embryonic stages of Clear Light realization. Precise too.

 

Thanks for putting it up, TI.

[Jeff]

Excellent description. Thanks TI.

 

[xabir2005]

Hi Xabir

Thank you so much for your post.

 

When I first read what you have written, I had a very big rush which lasted a few hours.

 

I don't know what non-dualism is because I have never made an association with a practical experience to the term. Maybe it is non-dualism, if non-dualism means that it 'feels' like you are everything. When I was looking at the leg and the bathtub, it felt like I was the leg and bathtub, and the tiles and the soap dish. Normally that feeling of "me" sits behind my eyes, somewhere in the center of my head, but in this case, that "me" had expanded to encompass the whole scene. There was no separation. There was no watcher, it was as if the watcher was everything, if that makes sense. I felt like I had become the whole scene. There was a flavor of "me" that was very distinct and it was permeating everything.

 

And yes, as soon as the mind or conceptual mind came back in, the state was lost. The strange thing about it is that the conceptual mind seems to be located behind the event of 'oneness' (if I can call that state that), and I've tried to push it back but with no success. It comes forwards and then the clarity, the luminescence, the silence all vanish. It appears to me that the conceptual mind is a very potent veil which hides this phenomenon.

 

Xabir, do you live in that state of luminescence all of the time? Does it come and go or have you stabilized in it? It is such a wonderful state, I wish I could spend more time in it and get to know it better. I wish I knew how to turn it on and keep it on!!

 

For you, did it 'turn on and stay on" the first time you discovered it or did it turn on and off remittantly? As you've said, how does one "turn the light around"? I do many meditations of turning my attention back around towards the sense or feeling of "I" behind my eyes, somewhere in the center of my head. My practice is "if I can see, hear or feel something, to turn the attention to whatever is doing the apprehending. Abiding in the "I". Is that what you mean by turning the light around?

 

If that state is what Eckart Tolle refers to as "presence", I can see why it is such a big deal. If I could remain in that state I think I too would sit on a park bench with a very big smile on my face for a few years like he did.

 

TI

1) You are experiencing non-dual, but not yet realization. For non-dual experience to become effortless, realization must arise. Read this and you will know more about what I'm talking about: http://awakeningtore...w-practice.html

 

2) The next part of your post is talking about practicing to attain I AM realization. For me, self-inquiry is a direct path to that realization. More on self-inquiry in my e-book: http://awakeningtore...ke-journal.html

Edited January 9, 2013 by xabir2005

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Ish]

I found that post very interesting TI, just one point if someone could clarify.

 

". When the mind begins to engage in thinking and conceptualizing again, that subtle mental grasping is enough of a contraction to cause the very delicate Light Channels to close."

 

 

 

From my reading about Dzogchen and it's practice my understanding was that the thoughts arising didn't really matter as one can be in Rigpa while thoughts are arising or not arising. I think I even read that when lots of thoughts were arising the awareness of natural state can become even stronger!

 

Thanks

[C T]

' "changeless awareness"... being the naked "observingess" in all experience... the seat of Being...to be the Beingness of Clear Light Awareness... the Natural Bliss of our own Being... the Clear Light of Awareness is always unchanging... in no way modifies our Beingness... our essential Beingness enjoys it all as pure play.'

 

Too bad, he's a realist, who makes dzogchen into some sort of crypto/Neo-Advaitan amalgamation.

 

Dear SJ,

 

Upaya is a broad term. There are unlimited upaya, even within Dzogchen, that leads to the final fruit. Sometimes, gurus use words to fit their listeners. Dont be distracted. If you intuit deeply that you are on the right path, then you would also know all the turns you had to take, or perhaps are still taking, even though you may have surpassed stages that others have yet to.

 

In Dzogchen, there exists many approaches and pointing-outs in conveying the essential meanings. These approaches are to be seen for what they are, or they could easily become 'stumblers' on the path, or arise at later points during one's practice to become concrete obstacles. Dont take this the wrong way, but obstacles can be helpful too.

 

Even ChNNR advises students to use whatever means available, in an informed way, to progress. He is far from being a prude and a purist. He knows that at some level, means will drop off naturally, like scab. If you find this far-fetched, please ask him yourself.

 

Wisdom can only be a reality when it is integrated into the realm of human experience. Words and dogma can only do so much, but then, their usefulness as technical aids (merely) need to be seen clearly.

 

The Buddha spoke about the Four Brahmaviharas, namely, love, compassion, sympathetic joy and equanimity. Do you know the meaning of the term Brahmavihara? A dwelling in God. But in the context of Buddha's teachings, it can be equated to divine abode, or sublime attitudes. Buddha never denied divinity -- He merely pointed to obvious spiritual implications of clinging to such, how some become ensnared by symbols and form, while simultaneously, like a master Teacher, by the very same symbols and form, He showed the way to unfettered freedom (the knowledge and practice of yantra, mantra and mudra rings a bell). He spontaneously taught according to people's level, as should all sublime teachings be. Buddha was a total realist, too.

[idiot_stimpy]

I'm interested about light appearing behind the eyes. Does this really manifest or is it a metaphor for something else?

[Tibetan_Ice]

I found that post very interesting TI, just one point if someone could clarify.

 

". When the mind begins to engage in thinking and conceptualizing again, that subtle mental grasping is enough of a contraction to cause the very delicate Light Channels to close."

 

 

 

From my reading about Dzogchen and it's practice my understanding was that the thoughts arising didn't really matter as one can be in Rigpa while thoughts are arising or not arising. I think I even read that when lots of thoughts were arising the awareness of natural state can become even stronger!

 

Thanks

 

Hi Ish

I am not an expert on Dzogchen. I don't even know if I've hit the Primordial Consciousness either.

 

But I would venture to guess that you can have thoughts as long as you don't grasp or avert them.

 

But if you have too many thoughts, you might be in 'baby' rigpa, not the true Primordial Consciousness or "mother rigpa".

 

Some teachers don't distinquish between the two. They believe that first you train in 'baby rigpa' and that settles the substrate consciousness, or the alaya. Once that is perfectly still, there is a better chance of seeing through to 'mother rigpa' or as Alan Wallace would put it, breaking on through to the other side.

 

The main non-meditation of Dzogchen is first to experience Primordial Consciousness and then the next task is to stay there, 24/7. All practices leading up to experiencing the view are preliminary practices. Training 'baby rigpa' is a preliminary practice.

 

During my satori moments, I have noticed that there are still some thoughts that arise. The part that is silent is that there is no more monkey mind, or cloud of thoughts that occur. It is like being in clear crystal water, silent, and then a thought comes and it is very clear and clean. Really it is the conceptual monkey mind that is the chatterbox, that causes the satori moments to evaporate. It is like the "Map" says. Any kind of mental contraction causes the state to go away..

 

I apologize, you know, I don't have a consistent vocabulary when it comes to Dzogchen or rigpa.. I use words and concepts that I feel are correct for me, but perhaps they aren't correct for the classic teachings..

 

TI

[Tibetan_Ice]

I'm interested about light appearing behind the eyes. Does this really manifest or is it a metaphor for something else?

 

Hi I S,

 

If by light appearing behind the eyes, you mean the light that comes out of the body, then this is the reply:

No. It really manifests.

 

The first time I experienced it, I was admiring a tree in the Spring time in the park. It was like my face had become a big hose, and it was shooting out a wide stream of brilliant clear liquid water or gas. The stream was about 2 feet wide and it extended horizontally outwards from my face to about 8 feet in front. It bubbled outwards, like someone had turned on a fire extinguisher from my face, except that instead of billowing out a thick cloud of whitish fire retardant, the cloud that billowed out was crystal clear blissful clarity. Everything in this cloud of 'water' was so brilliant and detailed that it made the surrounding air look dull and hazy.

 

It is not a metaphor. It's a physical event.

 

Is that what you meant by light-appearing-behind-the-eyes or are you talking about something else?

 

TI

[idiot_stimpy]

Yes that is what I meant.

 

I've got something funny for you now.

 

click on the attachment.

Edited January 9, 2013 by idiot_stimpy

[Tibetan_Ice]

' "changeless awareness"... being the naked "observingess" in all experience... the seat of Being...to be the Beingness of Clear Light Awareness... the Natural Bliss of our own Being... the Clear Light of Awareness is always unchanging... in no way modifies our Beingness... our essential Beingness enjoys it all as pure play.'

 

Too bad, he's a realist, who makes dzogchen into some sort of crypto/Neo-Advaitan amalgamation.

 

Hi Simple Jack

You seem to have come around to pee in the pool

 

No disrespect, but just because Malcolm says something doesn't mean he is right. I realize you think Malcolm is the final word, and if he says "being" is neo-advaita then it must be so. I say, truth is where you find it, regardless of source.

 

Let's examine this a bit further.. Does using the term "being" imply neo-advaita?

 

These are quotes from "Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State" by CN Norbu:

Although, in the course of Tibet's history, Dzogchen was introduced and spread around the country by the two great traditions of Buddhism and Bon,' Dzogchen itself should not be classified as a religious or philosophical tradition. Rather it is a complete way of knowledge of the individual's state of being, beyond the limits of either religious belief or culture.

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State

 

This is from Tenzin Rangyal Rinpoche:

 

If all phenomena, including the subjective sense of self, are recognized as an empty display of space and light, one is free. Then whatever arises is simply an ornament of pure being. If phenomena, including the sense of self, are reacted to as if they were independent, separate entities or objects, one is lost.

...

DISSOLVING SAMSARA In the teachings of the Great Perfection there is the concept of lhundrup, spontaneous perfection or spontaneous presence that characterizes all phenomena, including happiness and suffering. Whatever arises in experience is perfect just as it is. All phenomena are a manifestation of the five pure elemental lights and from the five lights all the qualities of nirvana ceaselessly manifest. It is only because we are trapped in erroneous dualistic views that we engage in an ultimately false struggle with experience. We only need to wake— like from a dream— for it to end, and when it does we realize that it was never real. But until we awaken, we suffer. The world we experience, the world we perceive and think we know, has developed over time. We have substantialized it, made it concrete and distinctive, a dualistic world of “you and me.” Internal obscurations in the moving mind have resulted in apparently negative external phenomena; reactions to apparently external phenomena have reinforced internal obscurations. As we abide in the nature of mind, dissolving experience again and again into pure luminosity, experience eventually becomes a flow of light rather than solid forms, pure sound rather than noise or positive and negative speech, pure being rather than separate things and entities. The clarity and purity of the nature of mind result in apparently pure external phenomena. And the experience of that pure luminosity further stabilizes the practitioner in the nature of mind. This is the best way to balance the elements.

...

 

The kunzhi is the unity of emptiness and clarity; of the absolute open indeterminacy of ultimate reality and the unceasing display of appearance and awareness. The kunzhi is the base or ground of being.

Rinpoche, Tenzin Wangyal (2002-05-25). Healing with Form, Energy, and Light: The Five Elements in Tibetan Shamanism, Tantra, and Dzogchen (Kindle Locations 3255-3256). Shambhala Publications. Kindle Edition.

 

 

So, no offense, but are you saying that Malcolm is saying that C N Norbu and Tenzin Wangyal are neo-advaitists?

 

And why did you present heresay evidence that Jackson Peterson was being naughty? Are you trying to discredit his exposition of the Map? Even if Jackson Peterson were a murderer, or rapist, does that invalidate what he has written?

Did you not read about the group of murderers that Buddha helped to enlighten?

 

Quite frankly I think your behaviour here is disgusting. Gossiping and attempting to discredit based on personal history, accurate or otherwise.. Is that how true Buddhists behave?

 

Perhaps we should examine your past, your personal history and see if there is anything in there that we could use against you.

 

I am grateful that Peterson wrote what he did. I do not care whether or not it conforms to Malcolm's opinions of 'purity'.

 

TI

[C T]

SJ -- This clip by ChNNR... please listen to what Rinpoche says at around the 4.50 mark.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e_DijCSRvM

[Creation]

Interesting find TI. That fellow has posted many interesting things on his yahoo group.

 

A cursory search for "clear light" brought up these:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DzogchenCourses/message/2144

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DzogchenCourses/message/2010

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DzogchenCourses/message/1080

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Simple_Jack]

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Edited February 5, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Tibetan_Ice]

Interesting find TI. That fellow has posted many interesting things on his yahoo group.

 

A cursory search for "clear light" brought up these:

http://groups.yahoo....es/message/2144

http://groups.yahoo....es/message/2010

http://groups.yahoo....es/message/1080

 

Hi Creation

Thank you so much for finding these links. You wouldn't believe how they resonate with me.. In fact, I started to tingle when I first saw the links, even before I clicked on them..

 

The first link, about the sky gazing, is actually a practice that I've read about many times, and one that Alan Wallace teaches. It is found in the book called "Vivid Awareness" and also in "Stilling the Mind". I've spent years gazing at things.

 

The second link, about focusing on the area below the crown and just above the ears, is something I have done lots of. Also, I've experienced the popping out of the head into outer space through the hole in that region at the top of the head.. wow... That area is actually the only place in my head which is silent. And when focusing on that area, it doesn't take long before intense energetics start happening.

 

The third link: This part was very interesting:

In the thogal level of practice one does not use the

method of bringing the karmic winds into the central channel, but

uses the power of the Light that expands as one engages in the

practices of thogal. This Light is actually Rigpa in its purest

form. This is a level of Rigpa that is completely beyond any

association with sem or karmic consciousness. It is truly the Clear

Light. When one engages in this practice, the expansion of the Light

purifies the karmic energies without their having to enter the

central channel.

 

First time I hear that you don't need to bring the winds into the central channel in order to clear karmic blockages..

 

Actually, there was much more in those links that put some meaning behind the experiences that I've had..

 

I much appreciate those links, Creation. Thank you very very much.

 

TI