ChiDragon Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Oh man, he pulled out the definition of definition! Nothing more need be said. Let's stay with the main subject. Edited August 13, 2011 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Do we all agree that breathing has to be natural...??? If so, what is the natural way to breathe...??? To me, to breathe natural is to breathe in-out, in-out, in-out.....etc. If one breathes in, then 50% out; in, then 40% out; in...etc. It was not normal. My rationale for the objection of this kind of breathing is because of the unnatural pattern. We want to breathe as smooth as possible such as inhale then exhale, inhale then exhale. It requires no thinking. So the mind can only concentrate on just one simple rhythm. If one has to breathe in an irregular pattern, the mind will be distracted by keeping track of the amount of the air to be exhaled. The purpose to exhale was to get rid of the poison gas, carbon dioxide, from the body. We want to let it out ASAP, but why should we let only a certain percentage out and have the rest of the poison gas stays inside the body. Besides, when we do a full exhalation, there are still some residues of oxygen and carbon dioxide left inside the lungs anyway. The best breathing method is to breathe in as much air as possible that the lung allows. Then exhale the carbon dioxide as much as possible. BTW Healing takes place in the tissues by mitosis anyway. Mitosis use the oxygen that we breathed in but not by the breathing pattern. What is the purpose of breathing in an irregular pattern just for five minutes a day....??? I don't see any significant value or benefit in his method. The problem above is that breathing in AS MUCH AIR as possible is NOT NECESSARILY NATURAL. It will be very irregular for some (or most). SO you already deviate from your persistent comment about 'natural breathing'. The reason you don't agree with percentage breathing is, maybe either you have never practiced it enough to see the benefit; you only read about it and make up your own mind; you are not willing to consider another practice other than what you think is best. What is best for you is just that: FOR YOU. You don't seem to have any real understanding of breathing methods; only the one you practice. There are many breathing methods and each one is as natural as the intent of the practice requires... it is not a distraction; it is a natural part of that particular practice. Is the practice to purge, tonify, or regulate? Then use the appropriate breathing; it is natural for that particular practice. Each breathing technique has a purpose but your unwilling to conceded this despite the body of sources cited and practices mentioned. Edited August 13, 2011 by dawei Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) In general, the "natural breathing" pattern is inhale and exhale. The "natural breathing" I have mentioned before, that you are referring to, was the natural breathing habit of each individual. Does matter how one breathes...??? One can breathe upside down and the air is still going into the lungs. The oxygen still will be collected by the red blood cells. The body needs oxygen. What do you think is best way to provide a maximum amount of oxygen possible to the human body...??? Ref: Respiration Edited August 13, 2011 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) In general, the "natural breathing" pattern is inhale and exhale. The "natural breathing" I have mentioned before, that you are referring to, was the natural breathing habit of each individual.Except my real focus was on individual practices defines the breath, not the person. So you are either side stepping the issue or truly don't comprehend what I pointed out. Does matter how one breathes...??? Your are the only one trying to define it as ONE WAY; So this must be a rhetorical acknowledge of what has been raised here. That it only matters based on the practice. There is no ONE WAY. One can breathe upside down and the air is still going into the lungs. The oxygen still will be collected by the red blood cells. The body needs oxygen. Maybe this also part of the problem. I almost never focus on the lungs. Most of my breathing is into the LDT first, but I might also be breathing through my crown, or feet, or palms or various gates or even just the skin. The Lungs are almost never a visualization or intention in the various practices I know. What do you think is best way to provide a maximum amount of oxygen possible to the human body...???I never raised the question of maximum oxygen, only you did. This is YOUR PRACTICE. If I try to pull in the maximum amount of oxygen repeatedly, my breathing go erratic because it is far from natural for me. The particular practice defines the method, amount, duration, exhale vs inhale, control, and use of breath; This is the "regulation of breath". And there is the regulation of the Mind, Body, Qi and Shen. The practice prescribes which ones and how to do. My assessment so far is that you only interested in the regulation of the breath (as maximum) and the body. You've dismissed the 'Mind/Intention' as a distraction and 'Qi' as a chaotic idea, and all together avoid Shen. Did I get this correct? Edited August 13, 2011 by dawei 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baguakid Posted August 14, 2011 For him to stand on one leg without any muscle contraction is impossible. Have you ever touch his leg muscles while standing on one leg...??? If you did, it should fill like a rock. PS.... There is one thing that bothers me in your input that you had practice Chi Kung for 20+ years and your health is still improving. Can you elaborated little more on that like what kind of breathing did you do while practicing.... ??? Actually, I'm not interested in discussing my teacher's style or what he's taught me with you. Just to say you are WRONG! Such as your pompous. condescending, know-it-all attitude, which I can do without. No to your question on my breathing practices. NOYB boss. Why don't you tell us why you needed to practice nearly 30 years before not getting sick? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted August 14, 2011 I used that for the title because that was the original source; and it was to prove my point that Chi Kung involves abdominal breathing. That was what Chi Kung is all about. Now-a-days, people are using this term very loosely. I just want to straight it out so it won't be so confusing. And this guys is why this thread is worthless. He didn't make it to actually discuss and think about new ideas. He posted this to confirm what he wants to think. So there is nothing to gain here by discussing this with him. He will argue with anything that doesn't fit what he doesn't want to believe, and applaud what he thinks is right. The biggest mistake is to take him seriously... Just to speak to Chidragon, both mjjbecker and baguakid have tons of experience with apparently many masters. Becker has seen John Chang. It's worth your time to take their experience into account. John 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
henro Posted August 14, 2011 (edited) I thought he started this thread to prove that Qi only means breath, not energy..... from his first post: Chi Kung are to go through the adjustment of breathing, the adjustment of the body activity and the intend of the mind(breathing, physical, mind) as the fundamental for cultivation. The goal is to enhance the health of the body, mental health, immune system, brings out the ultimate potential of the human body. Please notice that there is no mention of Chi as "energy", here, in the Chinese literature. Yet 12 pages later he says: The Chi starts as "Breath" then turns into "Energy". My mandarin is still quite basic, but I am learning so I'll get there eventually. All the classic literature I have seen, and translated, and every Chinese teacher I have refers to Qi as many different things including breath, and energy, and even farting.... and my wife, who's been Chinese since birth refers to Qi as energy, breath, the activity of the body, and organs, and the energetic vibration of all things in the universe. Edited August 14, 2011 by robmix Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Actually, I'm not interested in discussing my teacher's style or what he's taught me with you. Just to say you are WRONG! Such as your pompous. condescending, know-it-all attitude, which I can do without. No to your question on my breathing practices. NOYB boss. Why don't you tell us why you needed to practice nearly 30 years before not getting sick? I'm sure that had left a big hole opened and made myself vulnerable. Actually, I was trying to say that the 108 form Tai Chi was too long to practice and require lots of space and time as I had indicated in the previous post. I did practice twice daily. Indeed, I did get the most health benefits out of it. It improved my breathing problem. My muscles had developed the Jin as a Tai Ji practitioner should have after many years of practice. However, In November around Thanksgiving Day, that's was when I'm wearing some summer clothes, it get cold in the evening. When I was away from home until late, that was the worse time for me, occasionally I catch a cold from the adverse weather. Tai Ji requires time and space, thus one day I was starting thinking about Chi Kung. Then I did a research, based on my observations, I had noticed that in all Chi Kung methods are doing slow movements with breathing. I realized that Tai Ji is doing the same thing but with organized sequential movements for the arms and legs. If that is the case, why don't I try some of the movements while standing and still have the Yin-Yang concept applied to my practice. So, this Tai Ji Yin-Yang method was so simple and I can practice anywhere and anytime for the last eight years. Since it was simple and easy. I can practice it whenever I am free and standing doing nothing. This is my own understand that I don't get sick anymore was based on the theory about the "abdominal breathing" method which allows the respiratory system to inhale more oxygen into the body. Due the continuous practice, I felt that my muscles are a lot stronger, I breathe smoother with more air circulating in my respiratory system. My blood pressure are consistently stable within the normal low range. I can jog a long distance without loosing my breath because I was constantly regulating my breathing while I was in constant motion. The best part of all, every move I made with the arms and legs was in coordination with every breath I took. It seems to me that my body was, fully, in mental control. At times, my holistic feeling was great and energetic. It was just magnificent. Edited to add: @robmix... I thank you for your moral support...... Edited August 16, 2011 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
