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Liu I-Ming 18th century Taoist Adept

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The books include Awakening to the Tao (his own composition Liu I-Ming, you can't put a price on this book), Understanding Reality (Chang Po-Tuan commentary by Liu I-Ming), Inner teachings of Taoism (which includes Four Hundred Words on the gold pill by Chang Po-Tuan commentary by Liu I-Ming), Journey to the west (short commentary by Liu I-Ming like a page explaining how to read Journey to the west), The Taoist I Ching (amazing commentary by Liu I-Ming a true gem in terms of I Ching commentaries it also include the text from the yin convergence), Vitality, Energy, Spirit (I would stick to what Liu I-Ming and Chang Po-Tuan share in this book). Liu has also done a commentary on Triplex Unity, Tapping the Lines (Qiaoyao ge), The Hundred Character Inscription, The Rootless tree (Wugenshu). I am sure there must be more books but they never got translated into English.

 

I get so excited when I type stuff like this its like I really want to go ahead and look for a teacher but with my human mind is that even possible in this 21st Century when false has reached its peak and real has retreated back into hiding so that only genuine students can reach it? I don't know I NEED HELP!!!

 

I have no idea who Liu I-Ming is. So can you please describe what have you learned so far, especially the most important and the most life-changing aspects. Please use your own words and please avoid the sectarian jargon if possible. Try to use normal English to talk about your experience on the path.

 

Once you describe what you have learned and how your life has changed as a result, please describe your vision of the future. What kind of life do you envision for yourself? What do you want the most? What are you afraid of the most?

 

If you can type this up, I believe not only can I help you, but even just you typing all of that up will be an experience for you. You might even get your answer from simply formulating your question in a comprehensive and complete way. :)

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I have no idea who Liu I-Ming is. So can you please describe what have you learned so far, especially the most important and the most life-changing aspects. Please use your own words and please avoid the sectarian jargon if possible. Try to use normal English to talk about your experience on the path.

 

Once you describe what you have learned and how your life has changed as a result, please describe your vision of the future. What kind of life do you envision for yourself? What do you want the most? What are you afraid of the most?

 

If you can type this up, I believe not only can I help you, but even just you typing all of that up will be an experience for you. You might even get your answer from simply formulating your question in a comprehensive and complete way. :)

 

Well where do you want me to start mate? I was introduced to the Way by a very dear friend of mine who asked me to read Tao Te Ching and see what it makes me feel. After reading Tao Te Ching I got the wrong idea of enlightenment. I thought that going into the mountains to find like minded people (I am not joking I almost made that step). Knowing this my friend warned me time and time again that I am being silly but I convinced myself that if I had to leave (I was running away from pain as I recently broke up with my girlfriend).

 

It was not until my friend forced me to read Awakening to the Tao, which by the way came across as a tight slap on the face. It opened my eyes and cleared up loads of doubts for me (I was a complete ignorant and self satisfied fool before I knew the Way). The book connected with me on a very powerful level because being from India originally I was pushed so much away from the spirituality after seeing countless forms of deceit and scheming. One thing I always knew was that spirituality is beyond any means of physical techniques or methods. This is where Liu I-ming (18th century Taoist immortal) stepped in, his words were as though I was meant to follow. He never once said that students should still their thoughts, or concentrate on energies through some movement, or eat herbs or plant based produce to enhance the life. He goes straight to the core of the celestial mechanism explaining how one should refine himself while in the midst of people and then once empty in mind and thought should one search for an enlighten one who can help then teach the firing process (again not physical technique).

 

His words are what I always try to follow. I recently moved from the UK to Ecuador (not in search of a teacher) to start a new life. As I mentioned earlier I am originally from India but I lived in the UK for last five years. I don't enjoy going back to India simply because when I go back the entanglements becomes so strong that it makes it harder to practice the Way. In the UK the power of Mundane is too strong and I had to worry about Visas and all the legalities just to survive on day to day bases where nothing good was being cultivated. I moved to Ecuador because I building a sustainable house here as simple as possible hence making this my place to read more text and help other (not for reward or merit) when in need. I know this way is not the perfect way but it works for me for now. I am here today but unsure where I will be tomorrow. The one thing that I can promise is that I wont leave the Way. I hope this will let you know what state I am in and what I lack in terms of knowledge. I am sure you have more questions just send me a private message and I will try and answer them. Cheers

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Well where do you want me to start mate? I was introduced to the Way by a very dear friend of mine who asked me to read Tao Te Ching and see what it makes me feel. After reading Tao Te Ching I got the wrong idea of enlightenment. I thought that going into the mountains to find like minded people (I am not joking I almost made that step). Knowing this my friend warned me time and time again that I am being silly but I convinced myself that if I had to leave (I was running away from pain as I recently broke up with my girlfriend).

 

It was not until my friend forced me to read Awakening to the Tao, which by the way came across as a tight slap on the face. It opened my eyes and cleared up loads of doubts for me (I was a complete ignorant and self satisfied fool before I knew the Way). The book connected with me on a very powerful level because being from India originally I was pushed so much away from the spirituality after seeing countless forms of deceit and scheming. One thing I always knew was that spirituality is beyond any means of physical techniques or methods. This is where Liu I-ming (18th century Taoist immortal) stepped in, his words were as though I was meant to follow. He never once said that students should still their thoughts, or concentrate on energies through some movement, or eat herbs or plant based produce to enhance the life. He goes straight to the core of the celestial mechanism explaining how one should refine himself while in the midst of people and then once empty in mind and thought should one search for an enlighten one who can help then teach the firing process (again not physical technique).

 

His words are what I always try to follow. I recently moved from the UK to Ecuador (not in search of a teacher) to start a new life. As I mentioned earlier I am originally from India but I lived in the UK for last five years. I don't enjoy going back to India simply because when I go back the entanglements becomes so strong that it makes it harder to practice the Way. In the UK the power of Mundane is too strong and I had to worry about Visas and all the legalities just to survive on day to day bases where nothing good was being cultivated. I moved to Ecuador because I building a sustainable house here as simple as possible hence making this my place to read more text and help other (not for reward or merit) when in need. I know this way is not the perfect way but it works for me for now. I am here today but unsure where I will be tomorrow. The one thing that I can promise is that I wont leave the Way. I hope this will let you know what state I am in and what I lack in terms of knowledge. I am sure you have more questions just send me a private message and I will try and answer them. Cheers

 

I like private messages, they are handy sometimes. But at the same time, I think this is a great discussion. Why should other people be deprived? If something is hard to say because it's not comfortable -- that I can understand. If that's the case, a private message is fine. Nonetheless, if we can share our deepest weaknesses with others, that's a good thing. Imagine an immortal who is afraid of something? Is that possible? So the less afraid (anxious/insecure) we are, the closer we move toward immortality (or more accurately, toward feeling as if we are immortal instead of being immortal beings who feel as if we are mortal).

 

Your description seems to involve a lot of external things, such as various countries, for example. This is interesting and is relevant. Nonetheless, it's hard to get a grasp of where the person is at in the spiritual sense by the geography of one's residence. :) The only thing I can determine for sure is that you are dead serious about your path.

 

Most notably what is missing is your vision of the future. If you can, try to relax and envision the best possible future for yourself. In that future, what is your life like? Can you describe even just one day of that life? I'm asking about your truest and deepest wish here.

 

The reason I ask is as follows. If someone is in the New York City and they want to go to Florida, I say "Go south." If someone is in the Mexico City, and they want the same thing, I say, "Go north." But if someone is in the New York City and they want to go to Toronto, I say, "Go north." So in other words, I won't be helpful to you until I learn what you want. If I don't know what you want, I'll just suggest whatever I want for myself.

Edited by goldisheavy

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The thing is man you will find it absolutely soul destroying if I asked you to translate the whole text. I have a habit of reading the whole text and what you did there was a glimpse of how amazing the whole text would be. Its just that I am unsure how to go about this to be honest.

 

Unfortunately to translate the whole content of the mentioned book is beyond my ability at this moment ,maybe one day in future I can.. :)

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Thanks for the responses, and translation!

 

Do you know much about the Book of Balance and Harmony? I was reading the introduction again yesterday and noticed that it said a large portion of the book is from Understanding Reality. For some reason I thought Understanding Reality was from a different school, but this would suggest that Liu I Ming's teaching is also in The Book of Balance and Harmony. I thought this book was much older than 18th century.

 

So a few questions then

Is the whole of Understanding Reality in this book?

I did not see any mention of the original authors in the Cleary translation. Do you know who is being quoted?

 

I found the use of I Ching for explaning internal alchemy in it to be especially unique. Was this from Liu I Ming? Are there other English-translated works that do this? For example "take the yang from water trigram (kidneys) to fill the middle of the fire (heart) trigram."

H E

 

I do not know the "book of Balance and Harmony" if you are talking about a Taoist book ; likely there is some problem on the translation of the book 's title for I am quite familiar with most of the major Taoist writings. The western translators sometimes give a title to a book hardly can we imagine..

 

"Understanding Reality"? If you are talking about the one written by Zhang Bo Tuan, then of course it is a very important book. The book is composed of poems, and uses too many jargons and implicit metaphors; without someone's explanation, it is totally unreadable even to those Chinese readers who are good at Classical Chinese.

 

While Zhang is the master who established the South school, Liu Yi Ming belongs to the Long Men legacy. Liu Yi MIng, unmarried he is , is unlikely to advocate any kind of Dual Cultivation by using the body of the opposite sex.

 

"take the yang from water trigram (kidneys) to fill the middle of the fire (heart) trigram." is , of course,a way crucial for Taoist Alchemy . It is Taoist unique, intelligent way of solving the problem of achieving Enlightenment ( in Taoist term: Shen ).

Edited by exorcist_1699

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I do not know the "book of Balance and Harmony" if you are talking about a Taoist book ; likely there is some problem on the translation of the book 's title for I am quite familiar with most of the major Taoist writings. The western translators sometimes give a title to a book hardly can we imagine..

 

"Understanding Reality"? If you are talking about the one written by Zhang Bo Tuan, then of course it is a very important book. The book is composed of poems, and uses too many jargons and implicit metaphors; without someone's explanation, it is totally unreadable even to those Chinese readers who are good at Classical Chinese.

 

While Zhang is the master who established the South school, Liu Yi Ming belongs to the Long Men legacy. Liu Yi MIng, unmarried he is , is unlikely to advocate any kind of Dual Cultivation by using the body of the opposite sex.

 

"take the yang from water trigram (kidneys) to fill the middle of the fire (heart) trigram." is , of course,a way crucial for Taoist Alchemy . It is Taoist unique, intelligent way of solving the problem of achieving Enlightenment ( in Taoist term: Shen ).

 

The Book of Balance and Harmony (translated by Cleary) seems to be a compilation of books from Complete Reality Taoism, sort of like a Complete Reality bible. There are a fair bit of question and answer style chapters where jargon is explained. The back section has Taoist Songs which read like poems. There is comparisons between Tao, Confucianism, and Buddhism. Also explanations on the process of how (not always how-to) turn Chi into Shen.

 

So Ex99, it seems that Liu I Ming maybe did not see alchemical directions as suggesting physical processes, but as only spiritual and consciousness processes. Do you know if Liu I Ming also practiced internal alchemy in the way that most Taoists do, involving the 3 dantiens and the 5 organs? Or would you also say that Liu I Ming's practice did not involve physical processes. If the later is the case, it would seem that he had his own style which was quite different to all other forms of Taoist Alchemy. I agree that Awakening to the Tao has little to zero mention of dantiens and the 5 organs, but would be surprised if he had no practices relating to their cultivation and application in his alchemical development.

 

edit: typo

Edited by Harmonious Emptiness

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it would be extremely helpful to find out if Liu Ming explains anything on the 5 organs and Dantian as his writings do seem to be against any of processes with regards to the physical body,organs etc and in all his commentaries that ive read in taoists texts like I Ching,understanding reality,yin convergence classic and lu's hundred character tablet in clearys(vitality,energy and spirit) i see no mention whatsoever of any indication in relation to any exercises.

 

But anyway great posts guys

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Aye I agree with you someone really needs to translate this or I will spend all my life learning Chinese and then one day translate it lol.

 

If you are this serious then I suggest you take the time to learn Chinese. If you are intelligent, single-minded, and dilligent, and your yuanfen suits the task, then you may be able to reach a level where you can begin studying these texts in classical Chinese in about two years. In less than three years you will be able to start getting through them without always having a dictionary on your lap. Not to mention, by that point texts in modern Chinese will by then be easy reads, and your language ability will open up many doorways to communication with fellow cultivators and teachers. You will also be freed from wondering what was lost or added by translators. One day you may be prepared to yourself offer the service you mention above.

 

I have read some of Liu Yiming's work in the original language and it is infinitely rewarding. A joy. Learning Chinese requires eating a lot of bitter... But as they say, 先苦后甜!

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So Ex99, it seems that Liu I Ming maybe did not see alchemical directions as suggesting physical processes, but as only spiritual and consciousness processes. Do you know if Liu I Ming also practiced internal alchemy in the way that most Taoists do, involving the 3 dantiens and the 5 organs? Or would you also say that Liu I Ming's practice did not involve physical processes. If the later is the case, it would seem that he had his own style which was quite different to all other forms of Taoist Alchemy. I agree that Awakening to the Tao has little to zero mention of dantiens and the 5 organs, but would be surprised if he had no practices relating to their cultivation and application in his alchemical development.

 

 

 

 

Generally speaking,the higher the way it is , the less it has to touch upon things like levels or locations ( say the three dantians) , or functions / physical entities( the 5 organs) . The highest way , of course,is to start from " no where ", without touching anything ,even the " nothingness/ emptiness";

 

Some readers likely immediately think of the similar Zen's way, which is something as difficult as what we have mentioned . The result of adopting this way, based on the unpleasant experience that the Chinese experienced in the Zen Buddhism history , is that most of the practitioners are either trapped in the so-called Lunatic Zen "disease"(狂禪)(guys who boasted of their understanding of Enlightenment, Awakening , addicted to philosophical arguments with others , yet in fact are lack of any actual experience in Englightenment ..etc).. or degenerate into Verbal Zen (口頭禪) ( people who relate those daily life matters to and carelessly interpret them in Zen's terms , turning the indepth things into trivials ; which is ,in fact, a vulgarization of something great) .

 

In a word, although not starting from dantian/ postures sound good , most likely,on most people, it doesn't get good results . So, most sifu, nowadays, still talk about things like lower dantian , upper dantian, the five-elements stuff...etc, which do reflect the being-entangled-in- the-post-heavenly-qi status that most people are situated when they start their practice.

 

Of course, there will be one day , after decades of searching, a sifu does comes across a gifted disciple, then he may exceptionally preach a way of starting from nowhere... The more excellent a sifu/master is, the lonelier he is in this world , as Liu Yi Ming's writes in a poem :

 

看破浮生一也无,单身只影走江湖。

鸢飞鱼跃藏真趣,绿水青山是道图。

大梦场中常觉我,千峰顶上视迷徒。

 

Having seen through in life nothing real

 

I lonely travelled across lakes and rivers

 

Truth hides in , flying eagles and swimming fish

 

Green water and mountain , where Tao hovers

 

In a big dream , I always find myself alone awakening

 

Like overlooking from top of mountains, I view the

 

people down there, lost

Edited by exorcist_1699
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I like private messages, they are handy sometimes. But at the same time, I think this is a great discussion. Why should other people be deprived? If something is hard to say because it's not comfortable -- that I can understand. If that's the case, a private message is fine. Nonetheless, if we can share our deepest weaknesses with others, that's a good thing. Imagine an immortal who is afraid of something? Is that possible? So the less afraid (anxious/insecure) we are, the closer we move toward immortality (or more accurately, toward feeling as if we are immortal instead of being immortal beings who feel as if we are mortal).

 

Your description seems to involve a lot of external things, such as various countries, for example. This is interesting and is relevant. Nonetheless, it's hard to get a grasp of where the person is at in the spiritual sense by the geography of one's residence. :) The only thing I can determine for sure is that you are dead serious about your path.

 

Most notably what is missing is your vision of the future. If you can, try to relax and envision the best possible future for yourself. In that future, what is your life like? Can you describe even just one day of that life? I'm asking about your truest and deepest wish here.

 

The reason I ask is as follows. If someone is in the New York City and they want to go to Florida, I say "Go south." If someone is in the Mexico City, and they want the same thing, I say, "Go north." But if someone is in the New York City and they want to go to Toronto, I say, "Go north." So in other words, I won't be helpful to you until I learn what you want. If I don't know what you want, I'll just suggest whatever I want for myself.

 

Hey man thanks for your kind reply... The one day in my life in future is a seriously hard question. I know that now I am working with the mundande to get out of the mundane (building a sustainable house or what not). I am also aware that I am very weak and I am fooling myself if I say that I can practice the Tao in the midst of mundane. Without proper guidance from an enlightened being I am just acting willy nilly. I hope my future life is spent under a master who I find when I am ready to be a student. I have no virtue and I am trying my best to eliminate the self from everything that I put my effort into... ITS VERY HARD!!! So from what I gather I think cultivating virtue is my way of finding a teacher and through virtue I would be able to go through pain and suffering without a problem. I am not ready yet but I believe (through my own mindset) that being in Ecuador seems like a good starting point and life is not too mundane here. I hope this answers your question... I look forward to your reply!

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If you are this serious then I suggest you take the time to learn Chinese. If you are intelligent, single-minded, and dilligent, and your yuanfen suits the task, then you may be able to reach a level where you can begin studying these texts in classical Chinese in about two years. In less than three years you will be able to start getting through them without always having a dictionary on your lap. Not to mention, by that point texts in modern Chinese will by then be easy reads, and your language ability will open up many doorways to communication with fellow cultivators and teachers. You will also be freed from wondering what was lost or added by translators. One day you may be prepared to yourself offer the service you mention above.

 

I have read some of Liu Yiming's work in the original language and it is infinitely rewarding. A joy. Learning Chinese requires eating a lot of bitter... But as they say, 先苦后甜!

 

Haha I wish I had that kinda strength... I am surely building upto it! I am not in China and learning a language away fro the home country is hard job. Thats why me being in Ecuador is to study more text as it is far away from where my afflictions lie (external but very real to me) and also people here are humble and very kind. Thanks for your reply man, the plan is to learn the text one way or the other (my virtue is too low lol).

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Generally speaking,the higher the way it is , the less it has to touch upon things like levels or locations ( say the three dantians) , or functions / physical entities( the 5 organs) . The highest way , of course,is to start from " no where ", without touching anything ,even the " nothingness/ emptiness";

 

Some readers likely immediately think of the similar Zen's way, which is something as difficult as what we have mentioned . The result of adopting this way, based on the unpleasant experience that the Chinese experienced in the Zen Buddhism history , is that most of the practitioners are either trapped in the so-called Lunatic Zen "disease"(狂禪)(guys who boasted of their understanding of Enlightenment, Awakening , addicted to philosophical arguments with others , yet in fact are lack of any actual experience in Englightenment ..etc).. or degenerate into Verbal Zen (口頭禪) ( people who relate those daily life matters to and carelessly interpret them in Zen's terms , turning the indepth things into trivials ; which is ,in fact, a vulgarization of something great) .

 

In a word, although not starting from dantian/ postures sound good , most likely,on most people, it doesn't get good results . So, most sifu, nowadays, still talk about things like lower dantian , upper dantian, the five-elements stuff...etc, which do reflect the being-entangled-in- the-post-heavenly-qi status that most people are situated when they start their practice.

 

Of course, there will be one day , after decades of searching, a sifu does comes across a gifted disciple, then he may exceptionally preach a way of starting from nowhere... The more excellent a sifu/master is, the lonelier he is in this world , as Liu Yi Ming's writes in a poem :

 

看破浮生一也无,单身只影走江湖。

鸢飞鱼跃藏真趣,绿水青山是道图。

大梦场中常觉我,千峰顶上视迷徒。

 

Having seen through in life nothing real

 

I lonely travelled across lakes and rivers

 

Truth hides in , flying eagles and swimming fish

 

Green water and mountain , where Tao hovers

 

In a big dream , I always find myself alone awakening

 

Like overlooking from top of mountains, I view the

 

people down there, lost

 

Again what a legendary poem... This is music to my ears!!!

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Hey man thanks for your kind reply... The one day in my life in future is a seriously hard question.

 

I know. That's why I ask.

 

I know that now I am working with the mundande to get out of the mundane (building a sustainable house or what not). I am also aware that I am very weak and I am fooling myself if I say that I can practice the Tao in the midst of mundane.

 

Mundane simply means whatever is ordinary for you. As you practice what is ordinary will change, but what won't change is the fact that some things will always be ordinary. So while you can transform the way your mundanity appears to you, you cannot really get rid of it or get out of it.

 

Without proper guidance from an enlightened being I am just acting willy nilly. I hope my future life is spent under a master who I find when I am ready to be a student. I have no virtue

 

You must have some virtue or you wouldn't even think to train.

 

and I am trying my best to eliminate the self from everything that I put my effort into... ITS VERY HARD!!!

 

It's hard because the self is what does all the eliminating. :lol:

 

So from what I gather I think cultivating virtue is my way of finding a teacher and through virtue I would be able to go through pain and suffering without a problem. I am not ready yet but I believe (through my own mindset) that being in Ecuador seems like a good starting point and life is not too mundane here. I hope this answers your question... I look forward to your reply!

 

You can't really imagine what it is you want, but it seems you know you want something other than what currently is. So in a way you don't know where you are going yet.

 

You seem to be very open and trusting, which is a virtue, but you should be careful. Don't become anyone's slave. Be your own person even if you learn from 10,000 teachers.

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It's hard because the self is what does all the eliminating. :lol:

 

 

I love this quote...Yeah I agree with you mate I will definitely keep to myself when I learn stuff, I learn by according with the text. My preception (for now) will not get me anywhere. Like the text says firmness and flexibilty should go together. So one thing I am sure at practicing wherever I am is making the intent sincere and the will firm, only then will I see the true and will avoid the false. Its good talking to people through this... It opens my eyes which I have forcefully kept closed for no reason in the past. Thanks for your help and I hope to hear more!

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I have one final question and I would like you guys to please answer it straightforwardly without using metaphors or symbols. I would like to know and I am sure that many new Taoists would like to know, that what is the first step or practice for he beginner. Remember I am going along only with what Liu says in all his text about not using any physical methods or techniques. If you have read Liu I-ming's text and you follow it diligently with a single mind, then please share what you have to say to my question. Thanks

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I have one final question and I would like you guys to please answer it straightforwardly without using metaphors or symbols. I would like to know and I am sure that many new Taoists would like to know, that what is the first step or practice for he beginner. Remember I am going along only with what Liu says in all his text about not using any physical methods or techniques. If you have read Liu I-ming's text and you follow it diligently with a single mind, then please share what you have to say to my question. Thanks

 

I came across, what seems to me to be, an excellent write-up about the book "Taoist Yoga" from somewhat of a Ch'an Buddhist perspective. I didn't get very far into this book as I felt I still had much work to do in the early breathing practices mentioned in it, but this write-up very much reflects my personal experience of NeiGong meditation in transmuting sexual energy into spirit.

 

I put this here since if one compares the practice of Zhao Bichen as described in this article (thought it may be a rather incomplete summary, I can't say for sure, though it seems to get to the essence of it) with the descriptions of Alchemical principles in Liu I Ming's commentary on the I Ching, there is quite a resemblance. In my humble opinion, if one is looking for some kind of footing to understand the process described in Liu I Ming's commentary on the I Ching, the summary linked here might be helpful as a fairly uncomplicated description of the process.

 

I put this in context to Liu I Ming's commentary on the I Ching because they both approach the Alchemical process and principles entirely from internal practices. Again the description comes from a Ch'an Buddhist perspective, so it is very minimal and possibly too much so for those who study Zhao Bichen's book, but I find the descriptions to accord rather closely to the principles described in some of Liu I Ming's writings.

 

 

Thanks to Adrian Chan-Wyles (ShiDaDao) for the article :)

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I have one final question and I would like you guys to please answer it straightforwardly without using metaphors or symbols. I would like to know and I am sure that many new Taoists would like to know, that what is the first step or practice for he beginner. Remember I am going along only with what Liu says in all his text about not using any physical methods or techniques. If you have read Liu I-ming's text and you follow it diligently with a single mind, then please share what you have to say to my question. Thanks

 

That is an interesting question but your criteria make it nearly impossible for someone to answer. The way you ask it is close enough to a Taoist riddle that I'll take a shot.

 

Essentially I read that you are asking how to begin your practice using only a textual lineage. You want to know what to do in order to start except that you don't want to "use physical methods or techniques." I assume you mean you don't want a form or something similar. It is important to remember that just sitting on a cushion and doing nothing is still doing something. That is, your a*s is still PHYSICALLY sitting (a technique) on something and you are DOING nothing (a method).

 

That said, try it anyway: Just sit. Empty your heart (Xin, Heart-Mind). If you can do that, you are on on your way to practicing Dao Gong. If this practice comes easy to you, that is fantastic, you are one of the very few people who can start there.

 

If it is difficult, then you might need another beginning practice.

 

Good luck!

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I have one final question and I would like you guys to please answer it straightforwardly without using metaphors or symbols. I would like to know and I am sure that many new Taoists would like to know, that what is the first step or practice for he beginner. Remember I am going along only with what Liu says in all his text about not using any physical methods or techniques. If you have read Liu I-ming's text and you follow it diligently with a single mind, then please share what you have to say to my question. Thanks

By your meaning of "physical methods or techniques", may I assume that you are excluding all mechanical aids such as weights, dummies, or weapons but your physical self....???

Edited by ChiDragon

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“Golden Elixir is another name for one's fundamental nature. . . . There is no other Golden Elixir outside one's fundamental nature. All human beings have this Golden Elixir complete in themselves: it is entirely realized in everybody. It is neither more in a sage, nor less in an ordinary person. It is the seed of the Immortals and the Buddhas, the root of the worthies and the sages.”

 

― Liu Yiming

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fatguy from years past is the guy who always talked about himself-and-a-friend always looking for a teacher who will explain this-and-that so t(he)y won't make any mistakes because "a slight slip will result in a great fall".

 

T(he)y probably have more books that a few of us combined.

 

I told him after a few PMs to Just Do It. He called me a fake. haha!!

 

Seems HE got this thread going a year after fatguy's last post.

 

Liu I-Ming is wonderful in that his comprehension is impeccable and he does not suffer from the sicknesses of attachment to teachers, teachings and traditions yet being well-grounded in them all. He also seems to to be free of attachments to energy-work in all its guises.

 

I wish I could say the same for the bulk of the bums.

 

I understand its allure, and understand that one might be willing to settle for second-best in that regard, but in working with the conditional, one is guaranteed to be bound by it. The subtle body has no affinity with the absolute. Only your own everyday ordinary mind has this inherent affinity with the uncreate because it already is the uncreate, albeit deluded by an overlay of habitually conditioned human intellectual identity-reflective cognitive processes bundled up as "ego" which is perpetuated by a beginningless stream of unconscious psychological content constantly coming from and returning to nowhere.

 

Whereas if one can take the forward step and enter the unconditional directly and develop a practice based on the unattributable primal aware nature, one can be assured that all the subtle-body shenanigans that those who settle for less work for will and do manifest spontaneously without the slightest intention or effort.

 

How cool is that?

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Decibelle it brings joy to my heart that you still remember me. My friend I never meant to cause any friction between us. I never called you a fake mate all I was trying to say was that, doing things on the basis of "to just go do them" to seek results is very hard for me and funny enough for my friend it is the same. What usually happens is that we do the opposite (not to prove that the other is wrong but just because it's too overwhelming). Say for example if the master says don't think of sex... the first thing that comes to the mind is sex and it lingers in the mind for a while. Now what good is that?

 

My main concern in all of this is to understand virtue. As it says in the taoist i-ching that there is human tao and then there is celestial tao. Which further shares that there is human virtues and then there are celestial virtues. In lius commentary on understanding reality he says it very clearly that cultivation of virtue allows spirits and demons to open doors where there none before allowing one to tread the path of tao without much hindrance. You see there is a method in this and it is very close to what neo Confucians and ancient longmen patriarchs say. Let's talk about this for change and see what meaning we arrive at for cultivating virtue. Thanks and take care

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