taoist lovemaking and karezza

[Non]

But you said you don't want to just get laid. That you don't want to have meaningless sex. So what do you care?

 

Sex is not inherently immoral. Being in relationships with women is not inherently immoral. Having fun is not inherently immoral. Being a good person does not make you unable to have any of those things.

 

 

 

So what methods do you have, and what methods would you rather have?

 

 

you're not truly good unless you are an enlightened master. yuo may appear good, but in reality it's just selfishness, neediness, expecting from others, etc.

[Non]

Non,

 

That hasn't been my experience at all. One guy I know has zero problems asking women for money which he then never pays back. He still owes me and many other women (I found out later) plenty of money. When I quit paying his way for everything everywhere our "friendship" was over too. And that's only one example of a man looking out for numero uno. I can list plenty of others from personal experience too.

 

I suspect for every example you could cite in your own life I could match it with one from mine coming from the opposite direction. No...I take that back. You're still young. You aren't as old, used up and bitter as I've been (at least not yet). I bet I've got decades of examples of men being "naturally" selfish.

 

I think the more technically accurate way to state it is that people will use us if we let them. Men and women - both sexes will do so.

 

My guess is that men don't use you because you don't allow them to. You don't want anything from them bad enough the way you do from women. If you did I assure you you'd be singing a different tune. Go listen to gay men griping about other gay men using them. Not a female in sight and still the complaints of being used and abused roll in. I can even supply you with a forum if you doubt me. It happens because it's a people trait, not a gender one.

 

Life can potentially be shitty all around for both sexes. No one gender has a lock-grip on being shit-upon more badly than the other. The whole argument guys like to hold up of women going after "alphas" despite being treated like shit partly rests upon acknowledging that women do in fact get shit-upon quite regularly by "naturally selfish" men too. I would submit one doesn't even need to be an alpha to treat a woman poorly if she lets him.

 

The danger comes when you want something so badly from the other person you're willing to trade your soul away for it. But the soul always knows and the backlash is drowning in an ocean of bitterness. This is the reality I woke up to. Life can suck for both genders. No one sex has it better by default at getting something from their opposite than the other. That's one reason why sweeping generalizations are acknowledged to be a poor logic and argumentation device in debates. Even one example to the contrary destroys your proposition. How much moreso when life supplies thousands of them?

 

I understand though where you are coming from. Emotion is speaking, not logic. If logic were making these claims it would also be amenable to factual evidence to the contrary. The fact that this has not happened should clue you in that emotion is what's driving it and emotion-beliefs are typically impervious to correction by facts or logic. Hence the reason Sloppy Zang's and everyone else's advice to you falls on deaf ears.

 

That's why I asked what keeps propelling you to post obsessively about this same topic? Whom is it you are trying to persuade? And if you do persuade what will you gain from it? A woman's loving touch?

 

You and those gay men of the forum I mentioned have far more in common than you might believe.

 

well as for the selfishness bit it's just what my TCM professor says and it has to do with women being strong in liver (storing blood) as opposed to men who are stronger in their spleen (muscles/limbs).

 

heh, he also says that since women can be weak in the spleen, can have a lot of dampness which can give rise to evil thoughts with heat. "men think it women act it"

 

it probably doesn't hold water a lot of the time. it's very general too.

 

see, this is why I don't agree with some taoist beliefs in terms of the masculine/feminine roles, and the fact taht many chinese people and daoists believe in very black/white statements due to the whole yin/yang thing.

 

feminine and masculine is considered yin compared to the males INSOFAR as the CURRENT gender roles of society and the culture. But this doesn't mean that yin and yang is femininity/masculinity.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Non

[Sloppy Zhang]

you're not truly good unless you are an enlightened master. yuo may appear good, but in reality it's just selfishness, neediness, expecting from others, etc.

 

So then what practices do you have, and what practices would you rather have, to escape from all of this?

[Aetherous]

you're not truly good unless you are an enlightened master. yuo may appear good, but in reality it's just selfishness, neediness, expecting from others, etc.

 

It really sucks to hold all of these false opinions about sex/relationships/gender differences. Totally holds you back.

 

You might want to just take a break from the endless thinking, and join a dating website or something. Meet some different girls, and actually get to know them a little.

 

Just an idea...I know it's not the best of ideas. But anything to get you into reality, and out of the false labeling of how you think reality is.

[Non]

So then what practices do you have, and what practices would you rather have, to escape from all of this?

 

well I don't know. you could just die or commit suicide in the name of good and saving others... but I dont know if that's the best choice.

 

if your not enlightened the only thing you live for is dopamine surges. that's the only meaning of life.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Non

[JustARandomPanda]

well as for the selfishness bit it's just what my TCM professor says and it has to do with women being strong in liver (storing blood) as opposed to men who are stronger in their spleen (muscles/limbs).

 

heh, he also says that since women can be weak in the spleen, can have a lot of dampness which can give rise to evil thoughts with heat. "men think it women act it"

 

it probably doesn't hold water a lot of the time. it's very general too.

 

Glad you can see that.

 

After all, which gender fills our prison population more? Which gender is the one that traditionally goes warring? For me if I'm going strictly on outward evidence alone it appears men are the experts bar none at transforming evil thoughts into evil deeds. How does your TCM master account for this evidence from life chi-wise?

[Non]

Glad you can see that.

 

After all, which gender fills our prison population more? Which gender is the one that traditionally goes warring? For me if I'm going strictly on outward evidence alone it appears men are the experts bar none at transforming evil thoughts into evil deeds. How does your TCM master account for this evidence from life chi-wise?

 

he probabyl believes men war because women are evil and they make him go crazy. lol

 

as for chi? men have more chi, but in reality wmoen have more "true qi" because blood is the mother of chi and houses chi, so she has more potential I guess.

Edited May 17, 2011 by Non

[Sloppy Zhang]

well I don't know. you could just die or commit suicide in the name of good and saving others... but I dont know if that's the best choice.

 

Well if you are a strict materialist, that gives you nothing.

 

If you hold to life after death faiths, most of them look down on suicide, so chances are good you'd wind up in hell.

 

If you believe in a karmic reincarnation system, you'll only be put right back in with the same (if not more!) problems as you have now, since you didn't resolve them in this life. You might be worse off, as you might not know of resources like TTB's in your next life.

 

So whatever way you think it, suicide doesn't help anything.

 

Do you practice anything? If so, what? If not, what do you want to practice?

[Non]

It really sucks to hold all of these false opinions about sex/relationships/gender differences. Totally holds you back.

 

You might want to just take a break from the endless thinking, and join a dating website or something. Meet some different girls, and actually get to know them a little.

 

Just an idea...I know it's not the best of ideas. But anything to get you into reality, and out of the false labeling of how you think reality is.

 

tried it already. doesn't work.

[Mahberry]

this is the crossroad: it's either stay like a 'normal human' and be bad, and get laid.. or stay like a normal human, don't be bad, be "good" and don't get laid.

 

Or do what is right and just, and become enlightened and be above and beyond all of that.

 

which may even take several if not hundreds or thousands of lifetimes when you don't ahve the best "methods".

lol, false dichotomy. you still deeply want a companion and to get laid and you're making up all these beliefs to justify for your lack of trying.

 

if you truly believe in what you said, why the struggle? in the same way that you want a desirable partner, why shouldn't the other party have expectations of their own? you want reality to bend your way?

 

can't you see you're just throwing a more sophisticated tantrum like a kid who isn't getting what he wants?

[Sloppy Zhang]

tried it already. doesn't work.

 

See? This is one of those things you do when people give you advice.

 

Get out. Meet people. Get to know them. Acquaint yourself with reality, and you'll see how silly some of what you say sounds.

 

But since reality would destroy your preconceived notions, you react as you did above.

 

Liberate yourself.

[Non]

lol, false dichotomy. you still deeply want a companion and to get laid and you're making up all these beliefs to justify for your lack of trying.

 

if you truly believe in what you said, why the struggle? in the same way that you want a desirable partner, why shouldn't the other party have expectations of their own? you want reality to bend your way?

 

can't you see you're just throwing a more sophisticated tantrum like a kid who isn't getting what he wants?

 

I really don't know what it is I have to "do". I do try trust me I do. but I just don't believe in the type of trying that means "going out on the prowl/hunt" etc. In doing cold approaches etc. If the situation is closed to me, it's just closed. I'm not going to force it.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I really don't know what it is I have to "do". I do try trust me I do. but I just don't believe in the type of trying that means "going out on the prowl/hunt" etc. In doing cold approaches etc. If the situation is closed to me, it's just closed. I'm not going to force it.

 

So then how do you try?

 

School? Work (risks with that have been discussed)? Family? Friends?

 

How do you try? What have you tried? What's wrong with the "cold approach"? Nothing tells a girl that you're interested more than walking up to her and trying to start a conversation. If she's into you, she'll make it easy and the conversation will flow. If she isn't, you'll know pretty damn fast that she doesn't want you around.

[markern]

If you look at the time spent caring for others women come out waaay higher than men.

[markern]

he probabyl believes men war because women are evil and they make him go crazy. lol

 

as for chi? men have more chi, but in reality wmoen have more "true qi" because blood is the mother of chi and houses chi, so she has more potential I guess.

 

THat`s not needed. A significant amount of men have a natural tendency to love war. For almost all men in war it would be hell but for a large part of those, despite it being hell they still love it.

[Non]

Well if you are a strict materialist, that gives you nothing.

 

If you hold to life after death faiths, most of them look down on suicide, so chances are good you'd wind up in hell.

 

If you believe in a karmic reincarnation system, you'll only be put right back in with the same (if not more!) problems as you have now, since you didn't resolve them in this life. You might be worse off, as you might not know of resources like TTB's in your next life.

 

So whatever way you think it, suicide doesn't help anything.

 

Do you practice anything? If so, what? If not, what do you want to practice?

 

 

my practices are in my blog or practice journal.

 

I've been fluctuating but I've been doing at least one of the practices I mention there everyday. Sometimes I'm low energy, high energy, too much on my schedule, etc.

[Non]

That's why I asked what keeps propelling you to post obsessively about this same topic? Whom is it you are trying to persuade? And if you do persuade what will you gain from it? A woman's loving touch?

 

Yea I don't know how to answer that.

[Mahberry]

I really don't know what it is I have to "do". I do try trust me I do. but I just don't believe in the type of trying that means "going out on the prowl/hunt" etc. In doing cold approaches etc. If the situation is closed to me, it's just closed. I'm not going to force it.

hey, do you take pride in your appearance?

[Non]

I guess not too good. I'm working on it, though I don't go to the gym because well.. right now I'm doing the Strongfortism thing and seeing how that goes. I also think it's better for my kung fu that I don't go. I stopped it but I started again. Once I'm done I'll go to the gym but just do lightweight training. Doesn't mean I'm not aiming to get strong though. Some of the most strongest people are lightweight trainers because they put focus in their practice, dynamic tension, do it slowly and with muscle control.

 

So yeah... as for my diet well I'm kinda skinny on my limbs and such.. I also lost a lot of muscle since I changed my diet because well it's hard to keep up and to do it RIGHT. It was either low carb or low, I chose low carb... but that means I still need some carbs every 4 hrs (less than 20) or else I'll lose muscle, and I also want to stay in ketosis.

 

it seems though that my protruding belly is due to a spleen issue and/or water retention. Bloating distension type, the skin around there isn't too thick. Then again it could also be visceral fat which is more common in males than in women because they accumulate fat more in their extremities and just under the skin. I eat quite a bit of fatty foods so maybe it's they are slower to digest. I'm only 150-4 lbs or so...

 

I'm going to have to incorporate some walking... and mild running (my knees). Just to sweat, my TCM prof said sweating is the best thing for excess dampness.

 

Yea.. my scoliosis too sucks.. it seems I can't stand up straight no matter how hard I try. Talk about it's effects on my psychology too... But I am working on it.

[King Kabalabhati]

I guess not too good. I'm working on it, though I don't go to the gym because well.. right now I'm doing the Strongfortism thing and seeing how that goes. I also think it's better for my kung fu that I don't go. I stopped it but I started again. Once I'm done I'll go to the gym but just do lightweight training. Doesn't mean I'm not aiming to get strong though. Some of the most strongest people are lightweight trainers because they put focus in their practice, dynamic tension, do it slowly and with muscle control.

 

So yeah... as for my diet well I'm kinda skinny on my limbs and such.. I also lost a lot of muscle since I changed my diet because well it's hard to keep up and to do it RIGHT. It was either low carb or low, I chose low carb... but that means I still need some carbs every 4 hrs (less than 20) or else I'll lose muscle, and I also want to stay in ketosis.

 

it seems though that my protruding belly is due to a spleen issue and/or water retention. Bloating distension type, the skin around there isn't too thick. Then again it could also be visceral fat which is more common in males than in women because they accumulate fat more in their extremities and just under the skin. I eat quite a bit of fatty foods so maybe it's they are slower to digest. I'm only 150-4 lbs or so...

 

I'm going to have to incorporate some walking... and mild running (my knees). Just to sweat, my TCM prof said sweating is the best thing for excess dampness.

 

Yea.. my scoliosis too sucks.. it seems I can't stand up straight no matter how hard I try. Talk about it's effects on my psychology too... But I am working on it.

 

 

Hang in there brother, keep doing your exercise and try to think positive. For me your diet sounds a bit strange.. I don't think you should try to stay in ketosis. Scoliosis is something to take to professionals but also you can do stuff like the plow yoga position.

 

All in all I would suggest simplicity but I guess once you "know too much" then it's hard to be simple anymore.

 

BTW I have quite skinny arms and wrists, I often meet girls with thicker arms than my own.. It has been an issue for me but doesnt seem to hurt my love life too much.

[Mahberry]

How bad is your scoliosis? You should lift heavy weights if you could, lift to look good, pack on the muscles, strength is secondary. Take up swimming if you can't. Drop that low carb diet for now and eat normally, most probably you have too much cortisol in your system, that's why you get so much visceral fat around your abdomen.

 

It's less intimidating to walk up to a stranger and start a conversation if you believe you are presentable. So, work on it. Groom yourself, nice skin, nice hair, fitting clothes, look up askmen.com, pay attention to how other people dress, learn from it. Look good, be vain but don't project, only be critical to your own appearance.

 

Strive to be normal, don't keep falling back on spirituality to solve your problem. Get to know more guys, have some friends that you look up to, pay attention to how they carry themselves, how they walk, how they speak.

 

Really really spend your time to improve your situation, no more duplicitous thoughts, just aim for what you deeply want. All the tao in the world don't mean anything if you're not happy and have to run away from your pain.

 

I used to hide behind Buddhism to deny my own needs, I was 26 (a bit too late) when I called bullshit on my own spirituality and just look for happiness like everyone else does. Took over a year before I'm comfortable with the person in the mirror and another year to really have a social life. Had a few very close platonic friends (platonic because they're not attracted to me) from the same social circle as my other guy friends, learned how to banter from them (important skill) and learned how to talk over the phone for hours (important skill #2). Once you're comfortable around women, everything just falls into place. I'm 29 now and have never been happier, also meditation is a lot easier now that my head is not as full of fuck as it did.

[Aetherous]

Strive to be normal, don't keep falling back on spirituality to solve your problem.

 

Very good advice.

[Non]

Well I dont need to get too big. I was going to the gym and my sifu told me it shows because I lost my flexibility, and I became stiff. Now that I lost muscle I need to strike a balance.

 

ok... so King Kabalabhati, you probably had no problem wth your sex life because you are older than me. Maybe much older. As people age they care less. Women start to care less about looks. Also,my generation may just be different than yours. Ask the older people about women and they'll give you different answers than ALL (yes ALL ) of my age group. All. Women are becoming more and more brutal, more and more indifferent and cold.

 

So why don't I look for older women? Because frankly, women want just about everything it seems. When they're young, they want the older guys because they have higher status. Then the girls get old and they want younger guys. Meantime the men, are told it's wrong to like ANY woman, young or even old. Even of the same age group. The only men NOT told this is the men "women have no choice" but to be attracted to them because he just takes over her mind and lets him abuse her because it's all about 'his pleasure' not hers.

 

and Yes women do care about looks, I'd say just as much as men do about a woman's looks. They just look (not the word LOOK) for different characteristics. Women are all about displays. You look big: it means you can do whatever the fuck she wants you to do for her because our biologies show that men are supposed to break their backs for women and they do nothing but weak stuff. So they come off as being more selfish.

 

But actually taht is false because women are stronger in their slow twitch muscles while men are geared more for fast-burnout quicker type of exercise. Of course that's in general anyway. Women have more blood than men. They also have much potential to be just as strong as men if not moreso.

 

Not many people care... not many women care though. They justify that the men do everything because "they are providers", women are care-takers. As in they take the care men give them, not that they actually care.

 

So a woman sees a muscular man as having more ability to provide.. even if it's not true. Even if it's not true. Even if it's not true.

 

I'm fine with doing most of the work when it comes to physical needs but the problem is she is never satisfied. She always wants more, and wouldn't give anything in return. No love, nothing. I could give and give and give, it's always unrequited.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Non

[Non]

If you look at the time spent caring for others women come out waaay higher than men.

 

Maybe when it comes to some things but other things: men are usually more physically stronger so they end up doing more than women. When it comes to physical things men do that, emotional needs women do that... but it looks like that is dying down ever since women started trying to be more like men.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Non

[Non]

Well if you are a strict materialist, that gives you nothing.

 

If you hold to life after death faiths, most of them look down on suicide, so chances are good you'd wind up in hell.

 

If you believe in a karmic reincarnation system, you'll only be put right back in with the same (if not more!) problems as you have now, since you didn't resolve them in this life. You might be worse off, as you might not know of resources like TTB's in your next life.

 

So whatever way you think it, suicide doesn't help anything.

 

Do you practice anything? If so, what? If not, what do you want to practice?

 

it's all about 'mememe' isn't it? So what if I choose to commit suicide, I'm the only one suffering. In the end I might end up saving more lives that way. At least in this lifetime. If in the next lifetime I come back, I can commit suicide again, and again. I'm a dysfunctional soul anyways. In the end though if people just let go of emotional attachment they'd be far better off without me. Nobody needs me. I'm the last and only person in my lineage and so far I suck tremendously. My father's brother sucks with women too, it seems he'll never make a family. I'm an only child. Nature is not calling me, so maybe I was meant to end it. As for my family, oh well, it probably is what was meant to be.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Non