S:C

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Finding a counter-example is often easiest by looking for the undisclosed assumptions.  These assumptions possess possibilities which were not included when producing the assertion.  

That too, was quite helpful and enlightening today!  Thank you @Daniel ! Do you have advice for a good book that gives an entry into modal logic (… is there something like modal logic for dummies?)
You explained it very well, I think it’s helpful for all sorts of assertions of people! 

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

Dude, there cannot be any discussion if you don't say what you mean. 

Upaya? Westerners sometimes call it playing the devils advocate. Of course there can still be discussion: the premises are just more uncertain - and not everyone is willing to follow there for the sake of discussion or learning alone. But it’s possible, for experience sake, no?

For now, I experienced the perspective changes and line of argumentation as quite nagarjunian, but I‘m not an expert and might be biased.

Still curious on how a mango seed becomes a apple tree in modal logic! But maybe we should take this elsewhere, I don’t want to occupy @Maddies thread here with topics leading astray and elsewhere…

49 minutes ago, Daniel said:

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"A mango seed will never produce an apple tree."

 

I can imagine a world where it could happen.  It's modal logic

How so? Can you explain please, Daniel?

The ‘idea’ is nothing but a subjective preference. It has no substantial basis. 

There is no ‘free will’. We are just prisoners of our own device. Bound to experience a show which script has already been written, with hardly probability to improvise apart from conditioning.

’I think therefore I am’ is nonsense in several ways. Why should thinking imply an existence of a separated self by a way of causality? That is just bonkers. Whatever runs through minds projection surface doesn’t tell one anything about existence and nonexistence. 
 

Intelligence is overrated. What use is a sword that cannot cut through emotions? Looking the other way might make you happier than interpreting what you do. 
 

Spiritual traditions don’t put enough emphasis on the heart. And heart is not simply emotions in chaos. 

8 hours ago, Apech said:

https://artblart.com/tag/gilbert-george-all-my-life-i-give-you-nothing-and-still-you-ask-for-more/

 

You think the double meaning was intended?

Great work at explaining this, thank you @Daniel! 

21 hours ago, Apech said:

Then we come to ideas themselves.  Are ideas the same as thoughts or perceptions?  And whence do they come?

Abstracted thoughts or perceptions, - my guess.

I feel the need to explain this further after Apech confused look, but haven’t got the right words now.

4 hours ago, Salvijus said:

 

Real comfort is when your doors a wide open. 

Not sure I understand what you’re suggesting.

It’s really odd, how violence was used to help the hierarchy of state and church to gain souverainty over the claimed objective interpretation of the words of the Nazarene! Considering this, I wonder how one should ever utter a word and not expect to be misunderstood and turned into the opposite of the intended meaning? Which could be: Love, but without force. Well maybe I am wrong too, but alas I never claimed objectivity to begin with.

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

wedding of Cana

It’s comforting to discuss this without having to expect the inquisition knocking at your door, thanks! 

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Then again, if paranoia is allowed to strike deep, agents of inquisition nowadays might just be going round offering payed jobs… and status. Much subtler methods are being used: Weird twist in times, eh?  Please take care! Stay clear, free and connected and may the light and love be with you all through!  

Honestly, I ain’t sure if I understand that bible chapter you mentioned fully @Salvijus… but maybe that isn’t necessary.

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

there's nothing left to do but smile". Or dance, sing and play. Works just as well. 

Before the father we appear all similar in our appearance, no? 
I don’t get the reroute around status in this topic, maybe I‘ve missed something happening for someone? Could it be that you’re overthinking, @Salvijus? Maybe you have given something too much weight, that never was meant this way?

Why people ask strangers for their job, is because often that gives a good account where someone’s values and talents are. People spent a lot of their time and it often transforms them in a special way, so for a stranger it helps to understand another stranger and his behavior better. It’s also a less personal question than religion, for example, where you don’t want to intrude or provoke different opinions and a fight following. 
As to men’s testicles… well… there’s been some interesting empirical data for apes, about what the size, form and feel can represent to their female partner. I won’t go into detail here, as it seems inconsiderate, but it’s easy to find. In the end it seems to represent not only the potential of the offspring, but an underlying energy of the carrier as well, e.g. how loyal the carrier is or how often he approaches other women than that he had chosen for offspring and a life together. 
 

To Jesus, status seemed irrelevant, indeed. I remember the tax collector, a rich guy but unpopular. Even he was treated good or even better, because he had an interest in his teaching and worldview. There’s the famous line of a rich guy going into heaven as probably as a camel through the hole of a needle. Maybe that settles the whole of the status issue? 
 

In your opinion, are Christ and Jesus to be seen separately? Was Mary pregnant twice, one with the Holy Spirit and then with Jesus as the offspring? The lines in the evangelists book leave that open to interpretation for me… 

edit: maybe marriage originally was something different than today?

On 6.6.2024 at 3:16 PM, forestofemptiness said:

But what if instead of getting caught up in the buzzing reverie, we let that initial taste arise and then fade? What if we let our attention dissolve the same way the taste dissolves? What if we don't draw all the lines around the cone, ourselves, and the background, and run down all the habitual paths? 

Helpful, thanks!

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

You are picking and choosing your meanings

Isn’t anyone? 
 

“Reading what is there” relies on “picking and choosing your meanings”, in my very humble opinion on this matter.

What @salaam123 said rang a distant bell for me… and reminded me of a novel. Protagonist there said, he doesn’t like the feeling of being loved, it’s egoistic, suffocatingly sweet and sticky, makes one grasp for air, - what he wanted was to love in vain but to attain little (maybe wrongly estimated) steps towards a possible fulfillment. 

Not sure if anyone follows. No, @Daniel, I don’t think he has been redundant but the language barrier, words and meanings lost in translation, who knows. 

Along the lines of: no peace as in a lovey dovey harmonic union - where people magically change and adapt to a fruitful god wishful lifestyle in the way it would be done as a present to a or the deity - but in a way - through the sword - that nothing remains but that one. Being forced to giving up the parts that don’t belong. Getting empty, as others call it. Pervasive maybe, but to the right cause and origin. Who or what that ever is might be akin to perceiving something without senses. And the danger, grave danger… “a million candles burning for the help that never came”… no guarantees and just probabilities, no real prophecies, eh? Self shouldn’t be relinquished before time and never forced against the rhythm and one’s personal melody. 
Haven’t got the chance now to clear this into understandable words, might try later again, thanks.

 

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

Maam this is the Arby's drive thru...

So sorry, I thought I was at the gas station. My fault.

How is it possible that ALL of you are so very sure of your empirical sense data perceptions and conceptualizations (while others are not)…. ???

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

1)  I have not come to bring peace.

2)  I have come to bring the sword.

 

I don’t have any answers. Sorry.

On 17.4.2024 at 2:54 AM, Nintendao said:

the look of slightly concerned bemusement that my pet cat gave me while this video was playing is absolutely priceless 😂🥰

In my case it was a wild bird who checked on the fence if I was okay. 🤣

Thank you for explaining your point of view, @Nungali! I guess I understand you better now.

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Am I cat now?

Are you not? 
 

Luminous blob? I am confused. 

 

1 hour ago, Apech said:

,

”when good and bad arise the Dao is destroyed”

 

quote from I would have to look it up.

here you go, cat 

https://www.taoistic.com/taoteching-laotzu/taoteching-38.htm

3 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

So people who dispute or close their mind to the absolute may never know it. Or they may create an object or experience of it, and take the thief for one's own child, as the Chan masters used to say.

Very much agree with your first observations and paragraphs. 
 

How should there be knowledge of the absolute? We may have conceptions about it in our own relative minds, no? 
 

Or perhaps you mean that all relative conceptions of the absolute together are the Absolute because they appear on the projection surface of mind?

2 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

seem to remember they were described as such

Thanks, that’s probably the most helpful answer. 
 

I‘m also not sure what is kabbalistic ‘tradition’ and what is nungalis interpretation here…

Just now, blue eyed snake said:

 

scared cow

 

What’s got the poor cow got to do with it?