waterdrop

@remod       Thank you very much ,   even though i think damo mitchell talks about using only the stalks ... i think i might sin and try other methods for small questions   (even though i do feel unease about it) 

1 . I looked in your website  -    just want to confirm my understanding :

everyone that has   this prob 

Prob(6)  = ¹/₁₆
Prob(8)   = ⁷/₁₆
Prob(7)   = ⁵/₁₆
Prob(9)   = ³/₁₆

 are  just like yarrow stalk probability ?             ( i ask cause i understand 6  in yarrow is 1/16  and  9  3/16  ....  but i just want to confirm with you about the non changing lines as well ) 

 2 .   just to be sure cause i read some article that talked about the 4 coin as be best  -       do the 2 coin method you suggest just as good as the 4 coin  - or you think that 4 coins has some benefit over the 2 coins ?
 
 

@remod 

 

Quote

My personal preference is for the yarrow stalks as I do believe that this asymmetry is significant but many have a different opinion

You mean the fact it has asymmetry means you get more random results  than the coins and that is the benefit ?

on second thought  -  if its still fixed percentages of how much changing yin and yang lines there is  -  so still not sure what is the benefit in having different percentages of yin and yand in changing lines if its still fixed percentages (and if anything fixed to favor one type which makes it less accurate?)   ?



The yarrow stalks are a big hassle for me (time and also some shoulder pain)   but in general i assume also for you they are at least a tiny bit more of a hassle  than throwing  4 coins ....  so for you its the exact exact same thing  4 coins and yarrow stalks ?

also if that is the case i wonder why throwing 4 coins (or other methods)  didnt catch up ...

I do remember  right  now  that  there is some spiritual reason for yarrow stalks    -   as in  there is a reason  to use the yarrow plant  Achillea millefolium   specifically   and not any other type of plant even not from same family of plants  ...  also i remember damo talking about picking them when there is full moon  so they have more qi in them 

I would love to switch to coins  (maybe even online)   in the past i even wanted  more because i read in many places the way to improve i ching is just to ask it a lot  and as much as possible even on trivial things  - or even on how my day will go ...  so to do that online or with coins   is no brainer i could do 1000  every day  - but with yarrow stalks cause of little pain its less convenient ....  but on other hand some really make it to be stalks or nothing , while some say stalks for big decisions and coins for small  ones  and online generator for smaller ones, so im trying to understand this whole issue better

@Michael Sternbach  

 

Quote

By studying its underlying Natural Philosophy. Working from First Principles, that is. 

can you explain what you mean by that ?             (where i can learn about the underlying Natural Philosophy and what are the first principles ? ) 
 

Quote

A better exercise in the long run might be to contemplate how the hexagrams develop from one another, and how they are interrelated.

do you mean to read about how the hexgrams develop  - as in something i saw in past and remember vaguley -  that every hex  developed from the one on its left   ( 5 from 34 and 34 from 1)   ?
 

Quote

more in line with the I-ching's inner workings.

In what way are they more in line ?               in the way remod wrote  ( more leaning to changing yang lines the yin lines ?) 

i do not like using the yarrow stalks not only cause of time  but because i get some shoulder pain ,  but both a teacher i had and damo mitchell talk about using yarrow stalks and not coins ... so i dont want to use a bad method with bad results

@terry  How i can improve my understanding of i-ching except consulting it ?

To sit and stare at the different hexagrams all at once ?    move one by one and stare at each 5 minutes ?  10 minutes ?

i assume to stare at hexagrams  -  and not at triagrams alone right ?


Also wonder what is your thought about using yarrow stalks vs coins ?   i was adviced  to not use coins only yarrow stalks  so i wonder if you agree with that and what is the reason for it ?

Awesome , thanks , and it makes sense

@mcoolio  Thanks for the good reply

 

Quote

23 is darkness or rather, nearing the darkness. But 6th line changing can mean the end of a situation, so this can mean the end of a dark period perhaps? The end of a cycle?

Perhaps the end of a period of being stuck in your studies, where you were searching but not finding the next step.

But if the one changing line is the one yang line ....   than it all becomes yin   (change to hex 2)    -  doesnt this mean the situation is entering a period of darkness ? 

maybe trying to change things will cause me to be stuck ?   or that no matter what i will be stuck so best not waste effort on it  - and in this case not try to use the i ching ?

the general judgment of the hex seems to fit that :
 

Quote

 

Legge:Disintegration means that it is not advantageous to make a movement in any direction whatever.

Wilhelm/Baynes:Splitting Apart. It does not further one to go anywhere.
Liu: Decay. It is unfavorable to undertake anything.
Shaughnessy: Flaying: Not beneficial to have someplace to go.
Wu: Tearing indicates that it is not advantageous to have any undertaking.

 

The changing line thing is the most confusing thing to me  - cause i did see in some place that the situation is too stable and fixed so its good to change it (which is opposite of general judgment)   ...  but if that was the case than why would that changing line lead to an even more "fixed" situation (hex 2)  ?

I guess when asking 2 point question that includes also a question about my current level was for several reasons , to test the accuracy of the reply , to make it easier for me to see as a check point   (  because i know my current understanding of the i-ching is very low) and to understand the difference  -  like hoped maybe first hex would be bad in nature and second really good   - and that the changing line would be some hint on what i should do in order to improve my level of understanding

(about my situation ... in the past i tried the i ching but didnt have much success with it ,i stopped , than was considering re taking it but someone i adviced with said i-ching might be evil ,  but he said that without knowing much about it now he read about it and said it is ok   ...   so now i want go give i-ching another go  -  and this was my first reading since )

I asked the i-ching what is my current level of understanding of the i-ching ?  and how i can improve it ?          (both in same reading)            the results i got is hexagram 23    with changing line at the top ... which makes it change to hexagram  2          (hidden hex is 2 as well) 

I wonder what are peoples thoughts on this  ? 

and since people always ask  what i understand  i will say that i am not sure at all what is the reply to what is my current level of understanding  -  but it seems that hex 23  basically says not to try to improve my i-ching  (so in my case to not start to use it again  - at least not now at this time)  and doesnt show how to improve my i ching understanding 

Would love to read what people think about the results  and how they interpret  them ? 

I am trying to find my lost  ID    ... i  am not sure how to intperet this results  ... im looking for hints as to were my ID might be  ,  i asked      the yijing  :   "where is my ID?"             and got :      

hex 61        with changing lines in second fith and six  (2,5,6)  locations          >>  this changes to  hex 24                    (hidden hexegram is 27)

dont need of course for someone to tell me the exact location of my id of course   - but maybe some hints  some guess  to were it might be near to  based on this results

I asked  the yi-jing   in 3 different times  the next questions  (its interesting that i got hexagram 20 in two of the questions - and 23 as hidden in them and in one the first changing line and the last one in another )  :

*      Some weeks ago i asked  "what is the next step i need to do in life?"     (thinking  should i do more of what i do , to stop what i do , to do more of it , to change it , to add something new i never tried etc)
and i got hex      11   changing line in the second place ... which changes to hex       36          (and hidden hexagram is 54)

*     Also asked back than  "what i should do about my  X training ?"      (asking about a specific practice i do (dont want to write name of that practice to not effect answers with opinions on that practice )   

and i got hex 20   with chageing line in the first   ...  which changes to hex 42    (hidden hex is 23)


* Today i asked again "what is the next step i need to do in life?"

and i got hex 20   with chageing line in the last  ...  which changes to hex 8    (hidden hex is 23)      

**           I dont know how to interpret this results  -  i wonder what other people see here     ( no need to have an opinon about them all even if its about one hex origianl or hidden or a changing line ,  is good as well  )  

I mean i can understand the lines being mountain and water  etc....   but how they reach "The image of : "  said about each hexagram  

(examples of what i mean by image is stuff like  "duration"/"retreat"/ "Preponderance of the Great"   etc   some make sense some dont and i wonder how exactly they reached this in the first place )          ?       

or how they reached the images of different line of different hexagrams ?

Did a solid read (was in a good mind state)  with the yijing  and asked "what i should do about the noise situation with my neighbors? "         

The results i got were :            Hexagram   44                  with changing lines of   :           6 in the first .....   9 in the second .... and 9 in the fourth 

Changing to hexagram 37             (hidden hexagram is 1)

How do you interpret this ?                    

can you disrespect the i ching ?  

got to this by my want to test the i ching (to increase my faith in it - except asking him questions about my life to ask questions which their main goal is to test the i ching)   -   and wondered if its disrespectful  to do so   ? 

also wondered the question in relation to using the online i ching   and also about what if i ask the i ching many small questions  -  even a few in one day , maybe even a few in a row (which is easy to do using the online i ching)  if that can be disrespectful ?  

and i mean what is the effects of being disrepectful to it ?    will it be less effective?        isnt the i ching really my "true self"  or my intution  etc -  so im just disprespecting myself and not some other entity  -  so it should be ok to ask whatever i want as much as i want ? 

also there is always hex 4 with its text : 

Quote

 

YOUTHFUL FOLLY has success.
It is not I who seek the young fool;
The young fool seeks me.
At the first oracle I inform him.
If he asks two or three times, it is importunity.
If he importunes, I give him no information.
Perseverance furthers.

 

 

 

@Apech 

well if it was an answer to my previous question than first hex  and its line  would been very clear and obvious   but for this question its not the clearest  :  modesty maybe means online is good cause its done with modest means compared to what it takes to devinate in the "real world"   ?

on the changing hex it says stuff like " this pushing upward is associated with effort, "     and the way damo teaches to do i ching takes more effort   .... on the other hand i see also  " The pushing upward is made possible not by violence but by modesty and adaptability. "      ... and maybe modesty is using the online one ? 

 

@Apech    i have also asked the online i ching now  "Should i use online i ching or only the i ching the way damo says ? "

i got hex  15    ... with a changing six in the second        ................       and it changes to hex 46

(i dont practice neigong with damo  any more just for the record (not cause his a badteacher or anything like that of course)

 also would like to add a remark that damo mitchell gives specific reasons for many of the stuff done  -  like using the yarrow stalks is not something of ritual only or getting into a meditation mode but also that the its something like it harms the results accuracy to use coins   -   and for example the incense sticks  are for cleansing the room  - and kept burning to keep the energy moving  in the room during the deviation  

i would  love to ignore all this  -  i defintly for example do not like the smell of the incense sticks sticking to my clothes etc  ...   i can think of a milion different stuff if its just about having a ritual  but it seems its more than that  in many of the stuff he says should be done

Thanks for replies
 

i did now an online reading   -        in a website you put a link to in another post  -   i think damo mitchell is apposed to online i ching as much as coins .... and this website has it done via coin method at that ...

but anyway i asked a similar question there   -  "am i advancing the right way with what im doing now ? "             (while now doing small actions to imrpove nothing big)       and got   hexagram  55    which change to 21

the changing lines are  9 in the third and  6 at the top 

it seems again that 55 is great just like 11  ... and by this i see it as i am in a great direction  , correct ?             than  9 in the third also seems good and means im in a good path  , correct ?                 6  at the top seems  it might be bad though no ?  

about 21 not sure how to interrupt it  :  ( specifically the bold part which seems to talk about stronger measures  - which seems the opposite of slow progress  (unlike "biting through" which seems to fit slow steady progress) )
 

Quote

 

THE JUDGMENT

BITING THROUGH has success.
It is favorable to let justice be administered.

When an obstacle to union arises, energetic biting through brings success. This is true in all situations. Whenever unity cannot be established, the obstruction is due to a talebearer and traitor who is interfering and blocking the way. To prevent permanent injury, vigorous measures must be taken at once. Deliberate obstruction of this sort does not vanish of its own accord. Judgment and punishment are required to deter or obviate it. However, it is important to proceed in the right way. The hexagram combines Li, clarity, and Chên, excitement. Li is yielding, Chên is hard. Unqualified hardness and excitement would be too violent in meting out punishment; unqualified clarity and gentleness would be too weak. The two together create the just measure. It is of moment that the man who makes the decisions (represented by the fifth line) is gentle by nature, while he commands respect by his conduct in his position.

 

@Apech
 

Thanks good and helpful reply  -   so will further say  (my main issue now from below is how to apply 36 to my life - all the rest are mini bonus thoughts that can be ignored )  :

 What you said about 11 and changing line  -   seems to make good sense  and fit my situation - and my conclusion i got to now (After asking) by myeslf as well without connection to the i ching results ....  though isnt that advice holding for most people anyway (taking a balanced approach and doing small tasks ) ?

The changing hex 36 is hard to interpret for me  - cause if i look at it myself  i would think  :  11  seems a good hex   and from that it changes to hidden brilliance  which doesnt seem as good   -  so i would think my good situation will change into a future bad one

and even after reading what you read about 36   im not sure what it means for my life  - how to apply it  - talking about  : 

Quote

so its about not being a shining light in the world but working internally like the sun under the earth.

maybe i can interpret it as not trying to change my relationship with my family or try to help them and just focus on meditation and other spirtual stuff   - but not sure at all

you dont look at hidden hexagram ?

i ching is always right... but not always the most accurate ?     damo mitchell way of doing it demands a good amount of effort  - which this time i didnt do  like lighting incense or meditating before  (but still i had ok concentration so i see it as a good reading even if not best) 

I asked the yi-jing   - what i should do next in my life   (like whats my next move  (not in going to bathroom but bigger ones)   whats the direction ?  and the results were           11  with changing line in the second  (changing nine)   ........  which changes to a 36                 

and the hidden hexagram is 54 

im  dont know how to interpret it  at all

@wstein   again i started to ponder this whole concept again of accepting what is  , as some sort of major way of life , and as a major practice by itself ,    and was wondering if you have any advice about how to reach this state of fully expressing my inner nature ?  

I also would want to emphasize  i am only  looking for replies with  interpretations for the yi jing results  that i posted  above and not for replies about how to solve this issue i have ("see a doctor/teacher" , "practice this and dont practice this", "take it easy" etc)  without connection to the yi jing results

I got some strong back pain from a system i practiced which had 3 physical parts to it (dantian gong , wuji stance, stretching)    , so i stopped all i do  , and started to do Yijin divinations to check what i should start doing again and what not to return to - and considering adding some new meditative non physical parts of that system i didnt do before   - the questions i asked (not i order i asked)  and the results  :

1 ."Did the stretches i did up until now did me good ? should i get back to doing stretches ? how ?"  Hexagram: 64 , Changing lines (1,4) -> Result 41  Hidden 63 

after been told the above is not good cause its a yes/no type changed it into :
2 . "What is the impact of the stretches i did up to know on my health ? "   H  : 61  C :  (3,5,6)   R : 11  Hid :37 

3 ."What is the effect of the WUJI stance i did on my health ? and what i should do about it ?"  H  : 64  C : (2,3,4)  R : 52   Hid :63

4 . "What effect did lower dantian work had on my spine ? if i return to it what effect will it have on my spine?"     H : 56  C : (2,3,6)  R : 40  Hid : 28

5 ."What was the effect of the system i practiced on my health ?"   H  : 28  C : (3)  R : 47  Hid  : 1

6 . "What changes i need to do in my practice for my spine ?"   H : 24  C : (1)  R : 2    Hid :  2

 
***  i am not sure at all how to interpret this  cause im new to yijing   ....  if someone can help this can be great  ,   not expecting someone to reply to all  -   even if just replying to one divination result  it can be great help  

@Michael Sternbach    I have asked the last question now  -   so i asked about practice in general about stretching and wuji stance  -   and  now i asked about danitan gong - i asked :

"What effect the lower dantian work i did had on my spine ?  and if i return to it what effect will it have on my spine ? "

I got hexagram 56   -  with changing lines 2,3,6      --- and it turns into 40    (hidden hexagram is 28)

how you interpret that ?

I see the reasoning for not allowing it  , still think it should be allowed  but im not feeling to strong about it to  debate it and actually write any logical reasons lol  -   asked cause i genuinely had no idea , but since i already replied about it felt obligated to give my opinion on it , but that is all not pushing this , i accept the moderators verdict

@Michael Sternbach   

 

Quote

RETURN.  Success.
Going out and coming in without error.
Friends come without blame.
To and fro goes the way.
On the seventh day comes return.

Quote

The idea of RETURN is based on the course of nature

 

that seems to mean i should return to original practice   - not sure what this line means though

Quote

It furthers one to have somewhere to go.

 in the prevoius question where i got hex 28 it says there also 

Quote

It furthers one to have somewhere to go.

 
so that is intersting point - that its in both hexes and i wonder what it means

 issue is i have no idea if force is me not putting force at all (aka just the meditation)  or  doing the physical part  but really low intensity  (though i always did things low intensity - now i need to do it really low ....  this makes this whole issue much more complicated for me cause i already went very careful low intensity and now if i return  it would be exceptionally low intensity  -  i think i did something like 10 minutes wuji stance for example - and strecthing i did just 1 minute doing a few seconds each stretch - while trying to put no force to it  ) 


*** also i am considering asking another questions trying to figure out what caused my strong back pains exactly    -  but i am not sure what best way to word my questionos  -  does  "what part caused my back pain  the wuji stance the stretching or the dantian gong ? "   good ?  or there is better one ?