Bindi

I think the way we frame “source consciousness” does really shape how we approach it. Here’s my idea. Before the theory of evolution, humans were seen as endpoints, while gods, the Dao, or Brahman were thought perfect and unchanging. But the theory of evolution changes that. Everything, including individual consciousness, systems, and even our assumed ground of being, emerges, develops, and evolves. Say there is a “point of light” or pure consciousness hidden within, split from source consciousness. What if It’s not fixed, what if it unfolds, grows, and at death returns to contribute back to the whole, showing that the Source itself is dynamic. What if each spark subtly shapes the larger field, demonstrating that perfection isn’t stasis but coherent adaptability. Spiritual striving then isn’t about returning to a pre-existing perfect state. It’s about participating consciously in the evolution of consciousness itself, including source consciousness. By refining ourselves we reveal the latent potential in an ever-unfolding reality. From this perspective, our physical bodies, our subtle energy body development, our awareness, all of it matters so much, because it’s one way source consciousness expresses itself and evolves.

What if the ‘perfect substrates’ of Daoism, Vedanta, and similar systems were simply attempts to explain what was not understandable at the time? Today, other perspectives might offer better explanations, like an evolutionary approach. What if the subtle body is an emergent property of complex systems, arising from the interaction of energy, information, and consciousness? Over time, it naturally self-organises toward coherence, integration, and functional refinement, producing the effects traditions describe as alignment. I agree that the subtle energy body exists, but I prefer to explore how it emerges naturally, rather than relying solely on traditional frameworks to tell me where it comes from or where it’s going.

How do you know this? If there is an already perfect, indestructible core, then why does division arise when that perfection manifests into matter? If perfection is truly perfection, wouldn’t it remain perfect under any condition, including embodiment? Why shouldn’t evolution and devolution both be possible? Why would either be ruled out a priori? To me, it seems just as logical to consider that even the “core” is enriched through manifestation, that perfection isn’t static, but dynamic, and includes the cycles of division and return. I agree that our ‘subtle body/light body’ would ultimately be fully synchronised with the core, but in this process of the core being embodied and ultimately synchronised it’s possible that we actually add something, new “facets,” so to speak, to the core, like adding new facets to a diamond, improving something already perfectly adequate. This core may be deficient or lacking the absolute perfection ascribed to it. What if this core has been perceived as a frozen endpoint, but in error, as in reality it is something that might continually unfold. After all, human claims of ultimate truth have often been revised when a clearer lens emerged. Why should this field be immune to that same principle? Why should we treat one claim as final when every other area of knowledge has evolved with clearer scrutiny? What if the whole picture of “no evolution, no devolution” rests less on necessity and more on inherited axioms? If we never questioned axioms we could still believe that the sun revolves around the earth and that we’d drop off the edge of the ocean a few miles out from shore. I’m inclined to throw out all axioms and explore afresh.

I’ve been thinking today that the subtle architecture of the human body exists on a quantum level. In most people, it is unaligned and incoherent, but the underlying driver of the system itself is intelligent, aiming for coherence. Subtle channels, chakras, qi, kundalini etc are real quantum structures and energies, and we navigate and shape them directly through consciousness, sometimes with precision, sometimes blindly. Though invisible to our physical senses, these quantum structures and energies are tangible to our consciousness. Practices described in Neidan, Waidan, Kundalini Yoga, and Tibetan Buddhism such as circulating energy, purifying channels, awakening kundalini, or combining two substances, can be understood as attempts at direct manipulation of this quantum system. IMO Spiritual practice, at its best, would be precise quantum engineering of consciousness: using the mind to allow the quantum subtle body system to become clear enough to unearth and evolve the indestructible core of the subtle body, the immortal pill, golden elixir, or diamond body described across traditions, which is an actual quantum energy/particle that exists within. By navigating, shaping, and awakening this underlying quantum system, we can cultivate the subtle forces that can ultimately transform (upgrade) consciousness itself.

Yes, I think ‘Spirit’ can see through both. The mundane or ego mind, as you put it, feels it’s in charge, I think from necessity, since without Shiva present it has no container and so has to run its own defense. Yielding consciously to Shiva can feel like annihilation, because, as you say, the ego-mind doesn’t recognise its proper place as servant and not master. For reasons I don’t fully understand, it seems to me that Shiva is cast out, and when this energy tries to re-enter we resist. I had a dream at twelve of a man sitting in a chair, staring out the window, stroking a cat on his lap. He seemed both frighteningly mad and catatonic. Then I heard the words: “He is me.” That dream pulled the rug from under me, it literally broke my view of myself as a twelve year old girl, but it also set me on the path of learning to understand dreams, because I figured by understanding dreams in general I would be able to understand this dream. Now, forty years later, I believe what I had seen was ‘Shiva’, ‘Shiva-mind’, flagged as me, which I was unable to remotely comprehend then. I’ve come to think we have to walk in Shiva’s shoes eventually. Now my dreams show ‘Shiva’ circling closer: a bull circling the house, a car crashing through the walls, someone breaking in through a window and trying to roll up the blinds. Allowing Shiva to re-enter is unnerving. His energy is powerful and alien, and he is no less frightening now than when I was twelve. But the difference is that today, with more cleared ground and greater understanding, I can at least try to let the process happen, even if it is not easy.

i can relate to your imagery - flames enveloping completely, it’s a wonderful image for burning away impurities, but for me that really only matches with what happens in the heart. i do think there are throat ‘issues’, definitely blocks there, but in my own trajectory they were resolved in other ways. Still with Shakti, but not with fire.

The conscious mind has to strive towards, and submit, to shiva especially. It may pale in comparison to shiva, but the conscious mind is the one that has to allow shiva to take his rightful place, and the mind has to be in a state where shiva isn’t going to ‘fry’ it.

I would suggest that Shakti isn’t about bliss, but burning karma at the heart level. This is required as a step towards going beyond conditioning. But it’s not her job to do the next step, which is to burn karma and destroy conditioning at the head level. That’s Shiva’s job. He’s the one that goes beyond identification with the “individual acquired mind.” Shakti doesn’t. A rough sketch that embraces the need for duality in spirituality is long overdue though. If the conscious mind doesn’t understand the importance of duality, it’s never going to lead you down the path towards Shakti and Shiva. I don’t think the transcendent just falls into place, I think it’s a hard slog up a very tall mountain, and then some. Dismantling conditioning on both conscious and unconscious levels is hard work.

I like a lot of what they emphasised according to your dot points above, but going back to my chart on page 1, it was stated that tantra gets stuck because it “Romanticises Shakti, chasing bliss, ignoring Shiva’s stabilizing clarity” and that “In Tantric and devotional systems, Shiva/true yang is often underdeveloped because bliss states feel ‘enough’.” https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/57086-a-short-essay-on-the-subtle-architecture-of-our-inner-life/?do=findComment&comment=1061236

I wonder if Shakti might be the highest material expression, and then logically shiva would the most material spiritual expression, so they together become a bridge between both worlds.

Interesting, an extended version of rudra/shiva: The association of Rudra with Shiva, often referred to as "the Destroyer" in the Hindu trinity (Trimurti), is deeply rooted in Hindu mythology and philosophy. Here’s a detailed exploration of this connection: Rudra and Shiva: The Connection 1. Etymology and Identity Rudra: The term "Rudra" is derived from the Sanskrit root "rud," which means "to cry" or "to howl." Rudra is often associated with storms, wind, and the fierce aspects of nature. In the Vedas, Rudra is depicted as a powerful deity who embodies both destruction and healing. Shiva: Over time, Rudra evolved into one of the principal forms of Shiva. In many texts, Shiva is referred to as Rudra, emphasizing his dual nature as both a destroyer and a benefactor. 2. Destruction and Transformation Destruction as a Necessity: In Hindu philosophy, destruction is not viewed negatively; rather, it is seen as a necessary part of the cycle of creation, preservation, and dissolution. Shiva, as Rudra, embodies this aspect of destruction, which paves the way for renewal and transformation. Kundalini Energy: The concept of Rudra Granthi, as mentioned earlier, relates to the blockage of spiritual energy. Shiva's role as the destroyer is also symbolic of breaking through these blockages, allowing for spiritual awakening and the flow of Kundalini energy. 3. Mythological Narratives The Shiva Purana: In various texts, including the Shiva Purana, Rudra is depicted as a fierce and protective deity who can destroy evil and ignorance. This aligns with Shiva's role in combating negative forces and restoring cosmic order. The Dance of Destruction: Shiva's cosmic dance, known as Tandava, represents the cycles of creation and destruction. This dance is a manifestation of Rudra's energy, illustrating the dynamic interplay between destruction and creation. 4. Worship and Rituals Rudra in Worship: Devotees often invoke Rudra in prayers and rituals, seeking protection and the removal of obstacles. The Rudra Suktam, a hymn from the Rigveda, is a significant text dedicated to Rudra, highlighting his importance in Vedic worship. Shiva's Dual Nature: In worship, Shiva is revered not only as the destroyer but also as the creator and preserver, embodying the complete cycle of existence. Conclusion Rudra's association with Shiva as the destroyer emphasizes the balance of destruction and creation in the universe. This duality is central to understanding the nature of existence in Hindu philosophy, where destruction is a precursor to renewal and spiritual growth. 100% agreed Absolutely 🙂

‘Destroyer’ does have strong connotations and may sound extreme, but I use the word very deliberately in an energy path context. At the head level, the Shiva aspect does have to crash through inner barriers, but this isn’t just force for force’s sake. The ‘destroyer’ function is also a safeguard, a test: ‘Can you stay steady when a bull is pacing around your house, or even crashing through the walls?’ If you panic and run, Shiva won’t enter, it’s a safety lock. When you’re truly ready and you don’t flinch, the energy enters smoothly, and Shiva’s face shifts from something fearsome to something calmer and more domesticated. So this ‘Destroyer’ aspect is a test, whilst also being the means to break through our natural resistance at that level. You’ve spoken of this before in terms of kundalini I think, but the principle is the same: you don’t want that force arriving before you’re prepared, or it can overwhelm the system, like the cases in India of people who’ve “seen the light (joti)” but burned their circuits. Better to be repelled until the body-mind can hold the increased current without damage.

I’m not comparing traditions as a whole, nor minutely examining what a term means, I’m merely demonstrating the ‘higher dualities’ that are suggested by these terms shiva/shakti, true yin/true yang etc. For me if a tradition names these higher dualities this is of interest, like a heads up, I might be more inclined to sample their literature, but only to hear a broad view of expressions on this very specific topic. Sometimes a description really hits home for me, for instance I hadn’t realised shiva was the destroyer until this thread, in fact it was only after the word destroy in my post was rejected by someone that I looked it up, and of course I fully concur. In turn this may lead me to look into shiva a bit more, maybe not, but it’s certainly of interest to me. This is how an inner directed path works, I step, and then look around to see if others have walked this way. Yes there’s some good stuff there.

While men may often lean toward mind dominance and women toward heart dominance, this doesn’t alter the fundamental requirements of the subtle energy body. The sequencing is structural, not gender based. Just as you wouldn’t begin building the second story of a house before laying a solid foundation, regardless of whether a woman or a man will live in it, the subtle body needs its base layers in place before higher functions can be developed without distortion. Of course, if the aim is purely nondual realisation and not the cultivation of the subtle energy body, this sequencing is not relevant, but I bring it up here because this thread is fundamentally about head/male/shiva and heart/female/shakti energies.

Is your nondual take on this prayer (the Shema Yisrael?) a standard orthodox view?