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I agree with what Luke said, it depends on the relationship between therapist and patient. A lot of traditional teachers have discovered that Western psychological treatments can be helpful to forming a healthy ego which, ironically, is often considered a prerequisite to transcending it. A lot of traditional teachings were developed in much different circumstances.

Yes, one who can help is the one that can help oneself and to let go of things. Self cultivation of the mind may be considered as psychotherapy.

It's not about the value of physical labor before and after enlightenment, although as I said in my last reply, the Zen idea of enlightenment quoted in your recounting of the saying is different from Gautama's. Miraculous power and marvelous activity Drawing water and chopping wood. (Pangyun, a lay Zen practitioner, eight century C.E.) Cleave a (piece of) wood, I am there; lift up the stone and you will find Me there. (The Gospel According to Thomas, pg 43 log. 77, ©1959 E. J. Brill) The weight of the entire body can bear at a single point in the movement of inhalation, as though lifting a heavy bucket or a heavy stone; the weight of the entire body can bear at a single point in the movement of exhalation, as though cleaving a tough block of wood. I would say it's about "one-pointedness" of mind, that these activities are conducive to the experience of consciousness at a single point in the body. So let's all get up, drop body and mind like in the way before your mother was born... while seated and more-or-less stationary!

I'm with Nungali, near-death experiences are only near-death experiences. I don't think they really tell us much about actual death. I'm not a believer in rebirth, either, although that doesn't say there isn't some phenomena there. I'm just not sure it has anything to do with the intention in a person's actions. Gautama seemed to imply that ceasing volitional actions of the body and possibly of the mind was conducive to a final rest that was more than simply not being reincarnated. At the same time, he declared that attainment of the states in which volitional actions of the body or body and mind cease was not necessary to the wisdom that provided complete destruction of the cankers, and that the cessation of volitional actions did not guarantee that wisdom (MN 70). This, after so many of his sermons recount his attainment of that wisdom with the cessation of volition in the body (and the exploration of various psychic powers), and one recounts his attainment of that wisdom after the cessation of volition in the mind. I would guess he could see that there were individuals in India who were freed, so to speak, without the concentrations, and likewise individuals among his followers who had attained the cessation of volition in actions of the mind (feeling and perceiving) and yet were not freed. I continue to believe that transmission in the Zen world is primarily based on the ability to relinquish volition in the actions of the body in seated meditation, Gautama's fourth concentration. That is actually quite different from the complete destruction of the cankers, that Gautama identified as the consequence of enlightenment. It's also different from the experience of zazen getting up and walking around, which is the kind of surprise expression of the spirit in the body that I think you are looking for. Perhaps of interest to you, Tommy, would be the fact that the first psychic result that Gautama experienced in route to his own enlightenment was the insight that consciousness is bound to the body; he described it as like a jewel strung on a thread, that is bound by the thread. I was a teen in the San Francisco Bay Area in the sixties, and through a friend I was able to try LSD several times. I can say that there is a feeling on the drug that everything makes perfect sense, like the way I used to feel after I listened to an Alan Watts lecture, but like the Watts lecture the effect wears off after a day or two. Not the way to come to spirit, in my experience, I gave it up long ago.

I have no such bump. In the Tibetan practice of phowa, one trains to express one's consciousness through the central channel out the crown of the head. It's said that one sign of a successful practice is an opening developing at the crown leading to the central channel. At the end of a phowa retreat, the lama will stick a piece of kusha grass in that spot to make sure the practitioners have achieved success. I believe there is a comparable practice in Shaivism but not sure which particular branch. The mark of a successful Phowa is that after death, there is visible hair loss, a bump or some yellow liquid seeping around the vertex. These marks serve as proof of successful rebirth. If these symptoms are present, the subsequent guide for the practice of the intermediate state will no longer be needed. from Khenpo Tsultrim Lhodrö in The Handbook for Life's Journey

Ba hui opening?

A few potential pitfalls of psychotherapy... Individual psychotherapy can tend to decontextualize problems that are better seen through the lens of the larger society, rather than problems of an individual. Poverty, sexism, racism -- many of the difficulties people face are rooted in systemic, cultural issues. As individuals we have to figure out how to best deal within our individual circumstances and psychotherapy can help with that. But there´s so much we miss as a larger culture when these problems are stripped from their broader contexts. Individual psychotherapy can overemphasize personal happiness as the goal of life. I´m not sure that seeking happiness directly is the best way to find it. Often, happiness comes as a "side effect" of the other meaningful things we do in life. For some, building character and living a life of integrity according to one´s values is more important than happiness. Individual therapy -- and especially the culture around therapy -- can encourage an unhealthy preoccupation with the self. Everybody has a diagnosis, we´re all traumatized. While it can be useful to recognize our issues and confront life´s hardships, sometimes it really is better just to get on with things.

Useful to whom? It's certainly useful for therapists, often for their clients. I found psychotherapy to be very useful for me. I somewhat disagree with the statement that "self-cultivation of the mind can be considered as psychotherapy." Certainly cultivation of the mind can have benefits. In the right person with the right method and guidance, perhaps some mental dysfunction and illness can be improved but there is also risk of significant harm. Meaningful self-cultivation of the mind really needs to begin with a relatively healthy mind and ego as mentioned above. Cultivation methods can be destabilizing or counter-productive for someone who has a variety of mental issues such as poor reality testing, a fragile or poorly developed ego, repressed trauma, negative self-image, depressive tendency, personality disorders, and so forth. This can be the source of nihilistic crisis, aberrant energetics, depersonalization disorder, qi sickness, kundalini syndrome, psychotic break, even suicide. One of my favorite teachers, Anthony Demello, speaks to his experience of being both a psychotherapist and a spiritual guide for Catholic clergy in India. His message was, in part, that as a therapist his job was to ease pain and help create or restore a healthy sense of self. As a spiritual guide, his job was to push people to see the truth of their situation even when that truth was painful, challenging, or destabilizing. Ultimately his job as a spiritual guide was to break down the very sort of patterns that are often needed by people to maintain mental health in unhealthy situations and environments. As Jiddu Krishnamurti said, "it is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Yes, I don't disagree entirely but there's more to the story. I think it's also possible for therapy, in the right person and setting, to support the development of natural intimacy and relational processing once obstructing, dysfunctional patterns and reactivity are identified and addressed. The existence of psychotherapy, like many medical/surgical treatments and diagnoses, certainly is in part a dystopian byproduct of dysfunctional modern society. Some of that may be related to transactional hyper-individualism but perhaps, in Asia, to hyper-collectivism and related manipulation and abuse.

Of course. The Tao Miao (or Dao Miao) 道妙 -- "The Mystery of the Dao," "The Subtle Wonder of the Way," "The Profound Principle." And indeed, as you quoted, "The fundamental laws of physics cannot be contained within space and time, because they generate them.'' The Tao Miao is much more than "the fundamental laws of physics" though -- it's what generates them.

A venture into 'Neo - Hermetics' : Previously mentioned above , conversations with Brian . We ( a few daobums ) were discussing the 'mathematical formula of everything ' that had been posted . It was complex , I could not follow it , some here seemed able to . But I did recognize some symbols , constants , forces .... ' G ' stood out , one of the 'four fundamental forces of physics ' - gravity . G was on the left of the equal sign with other symbols and ideas and there were similar on the left , ie. 'after = , or ' the result is ' . I said G should not be on the left, it should be on the right ...'as a result of ' . Brian said 'Interesting ' . What I meant by that is , it should conform ( or confirm ) my 3 ; 4 theory ie. three fundamental 'things' ( 'forces' , ingredients , etc ) in an 'ideal dimension' ( not 'real ' , or at least observable or obvious ) produce a 4th effect in a 'real' dimension . I go through it in detail in my PP in an article on numbers . This overall pattern is attested in many traditions, including on The Tree of Life and Ch 42 TTC . ( see my article for further examples ) . This suggests that the four fundamental forces didnt just .... 'be' , all at once , or were implied , but that 1,2 and 3 'engendered' all things . So with the 4 fundamental forces : the weak and strong force within the atom ( let's say , 'in the microcosm' ) , the electro-magnetic forces ( now having more observable effect in our world ... the 'middlecosm ' ? ) producing the fourth fundamental force , gravity . And I previously mentioned I thought that is why the Unifeld Field theory could not be developed , they cant 'fit gravity into it ' . I postulated that is because it is a result or product of the other three .... not the idea of the first four forces just being there together . As one hopes with 'Neo- Hermetics ' some agreement between 'ancient sciences' and 'modern science' might be found ... and it is , so many times if one looks at things the right way . In this regard , one of the new theories about gravity is interesting , it says it is an emanation from forces in the microcosm ! I would say the forces that bind atoms together are in the microcosm . And the effect is in the macrocosm ... gravity's effect certainly is . '' A fresh look at gravity challenges long-held assumptions about one of nature’s most familiar yet puzzling forces. In a new study, two researchers argue that gravitational attraction is not a basic force at all, but an effect that emerges from deeper quantum processes tied to electromagnetism. If confirmed, the theory could help explain mysteries that have long resisted standard models — including the origins of dark matter and the energy accelerating the universe’s expansion. ...The work, published in Journal of Physics Communications, reimagines gravity not as a force stitched into the fabric of spacetime, but as something that arises from the quantum-level behavior of ordinary matter. * ... The idea builds on earlier efforts to rethink gravity as an emergent phenomenon — an effect that arises from more basic physical processes, rather than a force on its own ...'' https://www.advancedsciencenews.com/new-theory-suggests-gravity-is-not-a-fundamental-force/ . * and that occurs in those sub atomic forces . .

Certainly ..... a blow to the head can do it ! There are many examples of that . Acquired savant syndrome is a rare condition where an individual develops extraordinary new talents, such as those in music, art, or mathematics, after a brain injury, stroke, or other central nervous system event. This condition is distinct from congenital savant syndrome because it appears in previously neurotypical individuals who had no prior ability in the newfound area. It is believed to result from the right hemisphere of the brain compensating for damage to the left hemisphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome#Acquired_cases ' Amen' to that

'' Summary: New research from UBC Okanagan mathematically demonstrates that the universe cannot be simulated. Using Gödel’s incompleteness theorem, scientists found that reality requires “non-algorithmic understanding,” something no computation can replicate. This discovery challenges the simulation hypothesis and reveals that the universe’s foundations exist beyond any algorithmic system. '' I had an interesting converse with AI about it ( which should be exhibiting 'algorithmic understanding ' ) Me; ''Give me an example of non algorithmic understanding other than Godel's incompleteness theorem . '' AI ; '' Besides the mathematical example of Gödel statements, non-algorithmic understanding is often cited in everyday human experiences involving intuition, common sense, creativity, and subjective consciousness. These abilities involve holistic pattern recognition and interpretation that do not rely on a fixed set of logical rules. Intuition and Decision-Making Humans frequently make complex decisions rapidly and effectively without consciously following a strict sequence of logical steps or a complete set of data. Emergency Response: Experienced firefighters, paramedics, and police officers often rely on "gut feelings" to make split-second decisions that determine safety. This intuition is a rapid, subconscious processing of patterns from thousands of past experiences, a form of understanding that bypasses deliberate calculation. Medical Diagnosis: Experienced physicians may intuit the correct diagnosis for a patient even before all lab tests are complete, sensing the right path through subtle cues and pattern matching that are hard to articulate as a formal algorithm. Driving Safety: An experienced driver might instinctively brake or swerve before consciously registering every detail of a potential hazard (e.g., a ball rolling onto the road signaling a child might follow). Common Sense and Context Common sense involves an innate ability to judge a situation through instinct and general reason rather than explicit knowledge, something AI systems often struggle with. Understanding Nuance and Sarcasm: Humans effortlessly understand complex social cues, body language, sarcasm, and implicit meaning in conversations. An algorithm can follow rules of grammar, but grasping the full, subtle intent behind a statement involves a dynamic, contextual understanding that is not easily codified into an algorithm. Navigating Unforeseen Circumstances: A self-driving car (an algorithmic system) might make a dangerous maneuver if it lacks intuitive physics understanding or encounters a situation not in its training data (e.g., a mob attack ahead). A human driver would use common sense to turn around and find a new path. Creativity and Aesthetics The appreciation and creation of art, music, and profound ideas involve a type of understanding that seems to emerge from a holistic process, not a rigid algorithm. Aesthetic Judgment: Deciding why a piece of music is moving or a painting is beautiful is a subjective, non-algorithmic process. While some algorithms can generate art based on patterns, the human capacity to attribute deep meaning and beauty is not a simple calculation. Innovative Problem Solving: Major scientific or artistic breakthroughs often stem from a flash of insight or a "light bulb" moment, where intuition suggests an entirely new approach when logical, step-by-step methods have reached a wall. Subjective Experience (Qualia) The raw, subjective feeling of "what it is like" to have an experience—known as qualia in philosophy—cannot be reduced to mere algorithmic information processing. The Sensation of "Redness": One can describe the physics of light wavelengths, the biology of the eye, and the neural processing of the brain in an algorithmically precise way, but this physical information does not capture the actual subjective feeling of seeing the color red. This internal, private experience is considered a non-algorithmic truth of consciousness.

And how many compared to those who have no past memories or continuity from the past? One in a million? Two in a million? Or let us say 2 or 3 in a hundred thousand. What percentage are you talking about? Only those exceptions? If they really are for real? Also, can't one be a prodigy and not have the talent come from a previous life? Note: The Buddha or the awakened one could not prevent his own death. All things born will die. So, awakening is suppose to end the cycle of birth, death and rebirth? If one gets a chance to live again then why would anyone want to stop from being born again? Life isn't all suffering. Is it? Well at least for some of us, life can be very nice for a little while.

If you have not been that long in that location , it might come later . It seems first, you needed to get the material 'mundane' plane sorted out first . Their might be a significant spot in the area ; a 'sacred site' or some special spot for you ? Sometimes these things take time to 'unfold' . .

Did it end up being 'productive ' ? Valid reasoning .... but I didnt mean what I think you are meaning now . Your 'essence' or spirit (in this sense ) is what makes you .... 'you' ; your individuality ..... that may be seen as wholly physical if one wants ... but its still there ... otherwise we would all be the same. Also a 'spirit' can be a distilled essence ... which is sorta like I meant above ... the essential you ... beyond conditioning . ... your 'natural proclivities' . But perhaps you do not believe in that either ? Some declare that isnt even there . . ? Surely you must acknowledge other 'externals' ... even the 'ideal' if not considering 'the real ' ( the ideal - like concepts and physical laws that dont have 'hard concrete ' material existence ? Great question, but that term essence would need better defining in what you mean by it before a good discussion could be had . Personally I dont feel a near death experience proves anything ... thats about near death ... not after death . People can say they think or believe there is a God ... but to declare to another that there IS ..... well ..... Also what they are thinking or believing is God might not be the same as another .... that old adage ; 'No I do not believe in God ... not the sort of God you believe in . '' Even if it is not , experiencing such 'something else' might not assume spirit, afterlife or soul anyway . Its a bit of a leap or a jump to a conclusion . What those substances are revealing is an expansion of faculties , or a diversion of them to other things . To me it can be a bit like , if we are surrounded by magnetic conductive substances , we would not know it . But if we took up a magnet ( which I am comparing to these drugs ) all of a sudden a 'new world' opens to us ...... but what do we conclude from that , thats the issue . And if it did , what sort of heaven and hell might that be ? Some human concept of what that is ? HA! to that I say . And while HAing ... I see similar human audacity (or hubris ) in attempts to define or understand 'God' . No , not if there is no continuity whatsoever . Cant be 'sure' one way or the other , at least we can say death is a great adventure , stepping off into the unknown (even if it is instant obliteration ) . I do have my own personal convictions and indications about it , but thats for me and relevant to me . But at least ... here you are , now . May as well make the best of it ... which might include 'finding your spirit' within .... and 'doing stuff' according to your true nature ... that seems to satisfy a lot of people and dispels depression and pointlessness and feeling lost .

I used to. By now I learned to either accept the correction with a polite "thank you" or reject it with a polite "fuck you." Depending on the mood.

On a good day you'll have a laugh with it. I know 😆

Not a snob. I know exactly where you're coming from. I think I think (sic) mostly in 2, but for most of the rest of the languages I've been exposed to, my mind created a common file titled "Foreign languages," dumped everything there indiscriminately, and when stuff from that file interferes with the 2 legit ones, it's not pretty. Not with spelling (although shit happens of course) but with spoken words, especially proper names. The thing is, if an English word is a borrowing from one of those other languages for which I know their proprietary pronunciation rules but not necessarily the English rendition thereof, I tend to stress and enunciate it the way it is stressed and enunciated in the language it came from. Sometimes I really don't know that it's pronounced differently in English from its source language, and sometimes I just can't make myself mutilate it like that. It physically hurts me to have to say Mo-di-GLI-ani or REmy MARtin or DesDEmona, let alone NAbokov. And native speakers never tire of correcting me...

Im female and 40 years old so i was 38 when it happened... I like to "Audit Statistics" and I'm "Autistic" ... so AudiTistic... i spent a month figuring out cause i wanted something that reflected me. This is interesting because im compelled to move across the country to where I am now and Im supposed to live here for a reason of which I'm not sure of yet. But when I moved there I instantly got a job and the company gave me an $8k pay advance and bought me a car after like 2 weeks of being there... so that doesnt really happen so I felt like that was a sign I was where I was supposed to be. I mean frankly every body I've talked to doesnt seem to have a clue what happened to me because they kinda say wierd stuff like this... what do you mean settle down? I mean all it does it get more and more... I see the souls of people im looking at, I have visions of the future, I have visions of peoples lives that I know. I can read and understand languages that I dont know. There are no other symptoms of the kundalini from that day... unles you mean crazy strange abilities manifesting, meeting demons, a dragon race, and for some reason star seeds keep popping up for me... then I dont know how else to respond here... I had a guardian angel who apparently followed me around for 6 months until one day somebody tried to do somehting to me... and this angel hit the guy so hard his teeth flew out and was taken to the hospital in a comma... then the angel guy just walked out to the end of a huge parking lot behind some bushes and vanished and never seen him again. frankly like 18 years ago i was walking in a club and somebody pointed at it and asked me something and told me it was special... ofcourse I didnt think anything of it and thought it was kinda wierd... then this happens and it seemingly is a phyiscal mark on my body that is basically what the indians put on their forhead... they put those red dots or whatever.... except mine is permanent... frankly unless somebody tells me a good reason it is useful... my default assumption is that I was a regular uninteresting human being trying to fail upwards in life and the mark on my head has zero value... so it doesnt mean anything to me unless somebody tells me something useful about it. Probably just a hold in my head that means nothing (athiest brain)... i dunno well so 4 weeks ago after talking to some kundalini "master" or yogi they asked me who the entity was... i never really thought much about it cause i just called her mother... but i spent like 12 hours using chat gpt to search all gods and spiritis and things and created a list of potentials and the final one that came out was Shakti Kali... which apprently is the form she is in right now... so if this is true... then she has adopted me and im her daughter because from what I read... she adopts those who come to her in truth and she is one of the Gods who will force a kundalini on someone... and she apparenty does her kundalini as a lighting bolt to the spine with fire in the head... so that all seemed to line up. Im like not one of these people who is like "ooo this God touched or blah blah" i dont seek any kind of fame or reconigtion... I mean I do love her because you know shes my mom and I feel her presence when she visits and she came to me last month after i read something that bothered me and she sang that song to me... THE SONG .... so it definitely wasnt in english or music that I can imitate because every time I've tried I cant even make the noises with my mouth... but the translated meaning was ... "I (Kali) am in the eye, dont worry, little children shouldn't cry <3" and i know it was in another language because i hear the actual words which are missing english words and then my mind seemed to correct itseslf and put them in... kinda like how you see a translation in a book or missing words that are YOU unders5tood. And the crazy part... the Sun started hurling these plasma charges at 3iAtlas and was hitting it... like bolts of fire aimed and fired... and some how I knew that it was my Mother (Kali) and the little children shouldnt cry... we were safe for now. So that should fill in some more blanks?

I know, I know. Living a crazy weekend so forgive me for the misspelling. I could be a snob and excuse myself for the misspelling saying that I think in 3 different languages... That's a thought...

Let's put it this way. Jing, 精, is one of the three treasures in the body. According to the Taoist philosophy, there are prenatal and postnatal Jing. The prenatal Jing was came from the parents and is the basic unit of the body structure. In order to preserve the prenatal Jing in tact, it needs to acquire the postnatal Jing to sustain the life of the human body. However, just by normal eating and breathing will fulfill this requirement. If one wants to hence the Jing, it is best to exercise to keep the body more active to function effectively. All cultivation for a better health involves the body, mind, and breathing. The emphasis is on the breathing exercise. To accomplish the cultivation of the body, mind, and breathing, the best exercise is Taiji or any kind of Qigong. The reason Taiji was recommended is because it involves body movement and breathing. The thought behind the practice is the coordination between the movement and the breathing. BTW, Taiji was considered to be as a form Qigong. The practice of Taiji will increase the mobility of the body muscles and joints. The best of all is improving the respiratory system. As result, the body is more active than the normal routing. In addition, the body will function more active than before. Indeed, this will be definitely preserve the Jing and prolong life of the body. Don't you think so? To answer the latter part of the question. Your energy level will increase progressively, and there is a less of chance for you to catch a cold or get sick. Even though you might get sick, you will have a speedy recover sooner than you think!

Well ... not quiet like those The thing is Turnip ...... what sort / type of psychotherapy ? wiki ; '' There are hundreds of psychotherapy techniques, some being minor variations; others are based on very different conceptions of psychology Its a bit like asking ; '' Is surgery useful ? ''

And here we go again. Apparently, after a bunch of years proving that the universe we live in is a simulation, they now have mathematically demonstrated that it isn't, it's 100% real and, moreover, can't be simulated. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/11/251110021052.htm Whew. Good to know. Not that I didn't... The idea that nothing is real always seemed to me as either religious "opium for the masses" so they don't take their abysmal plight to heart and don't make too many waves... if it's not real, who cares that you're poor and exploited and downtrodden, it's just illusion and in some other "more real" reality you are all-powerful... ...or the outcome of hallucinogenic drugs use that can temporarily, and sometimes permanently, cause depersonalization and the rest of the nothing is real effects... ...or, in the latest scientific incarnations, the conclusions a man of science arrives at who grew up with screens, computers, phones, video games and not with nature. The world they have been exposed to, the only one they know, is then extrapolated in their mind to the rest of the universe. Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about...

It´s impossible to say that psychotherapy is "bad" or "good" because so much depends on the quality of the relationship between the client and therapist. Psychotherapy has been helpful for a lot of people but it´s not always helpful.

No.

I personally do not know how the spirit would penetrate all existence since I have found no such thing in myself. Some have mentioned that they can travel thru the astral planes. Guessing that might have something to do with the spirit. For me, I do not have such experiences. And so, I do not see, feel, or grok that there is such a thing as spirit. This not to say there isn't a spirit. Just that for me, it doesn't exist. I live and breathe. Wake up in the morning, cook myself a meal, boil water for coffee. What life is, it is in front of me. When I read the saying before enlightenment, chop wood carry water. after enlightenment, chop wood carry water, the question arises what changed?.

I thank you for your reply and trying to help me understand. Still, I remain confused with all this as my mind doesn't see these complexities. Saying that breath or the act of breathing is in part spiritual, leaves me wondering if actions turn into portions of ourselves. The actions of the mind to sense conditions brings an uprising of emotions. So, the act of breathing brings a spirit or spiritual sense? My head spins with all these thoughts and ideas. So, let me just say thank you for your efforts to let me understand. And let's just say that I don't get it and probably never will. When Quantum mechanics says that anything can come from from the nothingness of space, I can understand that. But, when one states that breath or watching breath is a spiritual act, my mind freezes. One can say that one is on a spiritual path. However, it seems to me that it is only the real path to follow. All others returns to the beginning. When one says that two quantum objects can share the same information at the same time even though they may be light years apart thru quantum entanglement, okay, I get that but don't understand how since it is faster than the speed of light. So, yeah, I read your words and as I read they make sense. But, how it relates to me, there is a chasm. Still I thank you for trying.

How long does it take you to do all of them? I agree 100%

There are quite a few child prodigies