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What is the Ego?


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#1 MooNiNite

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 01:32 AM

That which believes in themselves?

 

That which sacrifices?

 

What does it mean to sacrifice?

 

 


I am the light I see in others.

I am the sun so high above.

I am the sky rich with color.

I am the roots of the earth.


#2 Karl

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 01:47 AM

That which believes in themselves?
 
That which sacrifices?
 
What does it mean to sacrifice?


Good question :-) I've waited an age for someone to ask that. Interesting that you began by thinking in terms of sacrifice. That is undeniably the ultimate aim of any ruler of men. To believe that they should sacrifice their identity for the good of the state, fatherland, king, queen, president.

If it is to be sacrificed then it must be identifiable in the first instance. Why would anyone wish to sacrifice their identity to another ? Let all men sacrifice or none at all.
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#3 ThisLife

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 01:59 AM

That is undeniably the ultimate aim of any ruler of men. To believe that they should sacrifice their identity for the good of the state, fatherland, king, queen, president. 

 

Karl, your take on every spiritually-based question presented here seems to veer so relentlessly straight into the writhing snake pit of politics that I cannot help but wonder if you are really in the type of forum that best suits your personal interests. I think most people who end up here, scrolling through the pages of this cyberspace hang-out, are here because they find the endless deliberate deceptions and self-serving partial truths of politics and materialism ... to be deeply unsatisfying.


Edited by ThisLife, 12 August 2015 - 02:02 PM.

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#4 Kubba

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 02:01 AM

Ego in the meaning of the problem of dellussions is something really complexed. Easy way to describe it could be all kinds of personalities you identiffy yourself with and these personalities are deeply rooted in the body. Different people dhave different degree of this modivications.
And it is subjective, always operates as a kind of an agent that believes that relates with experiences as some relative being, so it suffers when experiences are different than its desires, but thats not who we are.

But talking about it like that also can bring confussion cause it evokes another personality that thinks that there is something wrong with himself/herself.
Ego is not the problem but the imaginary self and its selfishness and graspings.

Ego is also understodd as the individuality with its unique futures, or tastes. "Each flower has its own smell" :). Old scriptures says that On the physical level ego is literallly the immunite system, so it is mistake to deny ones existence (and someones actually practice this way) cause it just weakens the immunite system.
When awakening happens there are periods when youre withouth this ego, and it is not something beutifull to stay in.

Sacriface can be felt as sacrificing this your own identification with the body and its tendencies and all personas included. It actually can be felt as dying, deep humiliation. So it can be understood as if giving up your own being, body included to this proces. And you know it is happening to you as if being digested. You give yourself to the Lion that feds her baby with your flesh :).
But it is also a kind of relative, depanding how tou wil describe it.
Ive heard a zen kongans that sound like:
There is something that will take your leg and your eye. What is it?
Or:
How to catch the golden fish?
But be carrefull cause the fish has already eaten a few old masters.
:)

Jesus on the cross is a metaphore of it cause it is actually experienced very special way that is hard to put in words.

Edited by Kubba, 10 August 2015 - 02:12 AM.

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#5 C T

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 02:10 AM

Misplaced Ego, fuelled by ignorance, would be the aspect of personality which prompts and solidifies grasping, imo. Until complete and irreversible awakening is attained, one can also learn to gradually transform misplaced ego with that of 'good' ego. 

 

For example, some people craves enlightenment, thats misplaced ego. But generating a strong desire to end delusion, to cultivate the necessary qualities to effect the ending of confusion, neuroses, and to practice discipline, keep mindful conduct via ethical guidelines, joyful confidence in progress with the view of achieving ultimate enlightenment... this is good ego. Its only a very thin line separating right and wrong thinking. Wrong thinking traps the mind and bind it in the chains of cause/effect and duality; Right thinking releases the mind from grasping, which is very beneficial for the spiritual process to grow and develop positively. 

 

There's much more that can be said on this subject, but saying too much also can be counterproductive as it could easily lead to solidification of delusional views which often can lead to mental & physical stagnation. 


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Om svabhava shuddha sarva dharma svabhava shuddho 'ham!
Om shunyata jnana vajra svabhava atmako 'ham! 
Om ah hum hra phat!
Om muni muni mahamuni Shakyamuniye svaha! 
  
Appearances are mind, mind is emptiness, emptiness is spontaneous presence, spontaneous presence is self-liberation.
(9th Karmapa)
 

The objects perceived by sentient beings 

are like the appearance of illusions;

Sentient beings themselves are in the nature of illusion

they all arise through dependent origination. - Nagarjuna


#6 Karl

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 02:15 AM

Karl, your take on every spiritually-based question presented here seems to veer so relentlessly straight into the writhing snake pit of politics that I cannot help but wonder if you are really in the type of forum that best suits your personal interests. I think most people who end up scrolling through the pages of this cyberspace hang-out, are here because they find the endless deliberate deceptions and self-serving partial truths of politics and materialism ... to be deeply unsatisfying.


Try seperating things and you will discover it isn't possible. Man is man. Why go anywhere to agree with everything ? The philosophers that put forward the idea of sacrifice were every built political. Anyone suggesting that others should change to their way of thinking are political.

However, isn't this thread about the definition of Ego ? I was merely commenting on the idea that it should be sacrificed before we have defined what it actually is. No good chucking out a piece of coloured glass for want of knowing it was a ruby.
'Jive talkin'

#7 Karl

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 02:19 AM

Ego in the meaning of the problem of dellussions is something really complexed. Easy way to describe it could be all kinds of personalities you identiffy yourself with and these personalities are deeply rooted in the body. Different people dhave different degree of this modivications.
And it is subjective, always operates as a kind of an agent that believes that relates with experiences as some relative being, so it suffers when experiences are different than its desires, but thats not who we are.
But talking about it like that also can bring confussion cause it evokes another personality that thinks that there is something wrong with himself/herself.
Ego is not the problem but the imaginary self and its selfishness and graspings.
Ego is also understodd as the individuality with its unique futures, or tastes. "Each flower has its own smell" :). Old scriptures says that On the physical level ego is literallly the immunite system, so it is mistake to deny ones existence (and someones actually practice this way) cause it just weakens the immunite system.
When awakening happens there are periods when youre withouth this ego, and it is not something beutifull to stay in.
Sacriface can be felt as sacrificing this your own identification with the body and its tendencies and all personas included. It actually can be felt as dying, deep humiliation. So it can be understood as if giving up your own being, body included to this proces. And you know it is happening to you as if being digested. You give yourself to the Lion that feds her baby with your flesh :).
But it is also a kind of relative, depanding how tou wil describe it.
Ive heard a zen kongans that sound like:
There is something that will take your leg and your eye. What is it?
Or:
How to catch the golden fish?
But be carrefull cause the fish has already eaten a few old masters.
:)
Jesus on the cross is a metaphore of it cause it is actually experienced very special way that is hard to put in words.


Aren't you describing false self rather than pure ego ?
It's easy to think that one should be a certain thing, or type of person and mixing up what they do/believe they are with who they really are. That's self deception and its treatable, the ego remains intact and untainted.
'Jive talkin'

#8 Kubba

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 03:50 AM

Aren't you describing false self rather than pure ego ? It's easy to think that one should be a certain thing, or type of person and mixing up what they do/believe they are with who they really are. That's self deception and its treatable, the ego remains intact and untainted.

Yes I meant the imaginary self which is often called ego.
But then I added that physically it exists as the immunite system and also as some internal process of taking care of the body. There are many layers to it.
Pure ego can be also called the recognition that goes with the breath - that you simply are, and I don't mean the atman which is brahman.

What is the difference between pure ego and imaginary self according to you?

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#9 Jetsun

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 05:07 AM

It depends on who you talk to, it means something different to a psychologist than to a Buddhist

 

I don't understand what you mean by it sacrifices, what does ego have to do with sacrifice?


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#10 Karl

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 05:18 AM

Yes I meant the imaginary self which is often called ego.
But then I added that physically it exists as the immunite system and also as some internal process of taking care of the body. There are many layers to it.
Pure ego can be also called the recognition that goes with the breath - that you simply are, and I don't mean the atman which is brahman.
What is the difference between pure ego and imaginary self according to you?


My answer to that is as fundamentally flawed as the question. Say you cut a big chunk out of your finger, are you any less you than you were previously ?

So, we are never less than pure ego and that's the problem. We think we are.
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#11 Kubba

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 10:47 AM

My answer to that is as fundamentally flawed as the question. Say you cut a big chunk out of your finger, are you any less you than you were previously ? So, we are never less than pure ego and that's the problem. We think we are.


Do you think too, that you are?

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#12 Karl

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 10:54 AM

Do you think too, that you are?


How is it possible to to be anything else ?
The problem- if I can call it that-is thinking you aren't.
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#13 Kubba

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 11:03 AM

Thinking is thinking - basically this or that and the attention follows.
But do you know this through experience or through thinking that you are?

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#14 Karl

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 11:15 AM

Thinking is thinking - basically this or that and the attention follows.
But do you know this through experience or through thinking that you are?


Even if I was thinking that I was, then I am.

Let me ask you a question. What are you trying to get to ? Forget for a moment the complexities of enlightenment and all that good stuff, but what would really satisfy you ?
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#15 silent thunder

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 11:15 AM

ego to me, isn't a thing, but a process


It seems I am part of something vast, while growing entirely from smaller things.

Not one raindrop has ever fallen in the wrong spot... there are no accidents.

Everything I Love and Everything I Hate come from the Same Source.

Ever present, never twice the same.
Always changing, never less than whole.

As Above, So Below: As Within, Without.

I don't believe everything I think.

stop glorifying busy

#16 MooNiNite

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Posted 10 August 2015 - 11:23 AM

It depends on who you talk to, it means something different to a psychologist than to a Buddhist

 

I don't understand what you mean by it sacrifices, what does ego have to do with sacrifice?

 

Sometimes in order to progress one has to do what they do not like to do, in other words sacrifice. 

 

Seeking silence can be akin to taking responsibility.

 

 

However, i dont know what to believe. 


I am the light I see in others.

I am the sun so high above.

I am the sky rich with color.

I am the roots of the earth.





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