Baguazhang and Taijiquan and I-chuan questions

[Pranaman]

Both bagua and taiji are internal arts. They both root you and connect you with your subtle body? Where do they differ?

 

is I-chuan internal, does it promote a balanced subtle body? clear channels? etc...

[Prince...]

You might like The Power of Internal Martial Arts and Chi by Bruce K. Frantzis. It's like a freakin text book, but full of good information on the Big 3 IMA's and little short stories about his experiences with other styles.

 

I only have a very basic understanding, but I understand Taiji is being very yielding, Hsing-Yi is more aggressive, and Bagua is both. Hsing-Yi is more of a striking art, Taiji more of a grappling, and Bagua is both. At least this is the way BK explains it in his book. A friend who runs a bagua school says Bagua can be added to any art, but other people tell me bagua is too complex to be a complimentary style.

 

I feel that way about I-Chuan, though as a lot of Wingchun families study I-chuan because most lineages have lost the internal aspects of Wingchun.

[Spectrum]

I-chuan cultivates the core that taiji bagua xingyi etc rests upon.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Spectrum

[.broken.]

Yiquan is internal.... very much so. For your information, the Japanese call it Taikiken in case you wish to research the subject further.

 

Yiquan has a clear set of methods:

 

* Zhan Zhuang (standing postures)

* Shi Li (testing of strength)

* Mo Ca Bu (friction step)

* Fa Li (release of power)

* Tui Shou (pushing hands)

* Shi Sheng (testing of voice/breath)

* Ji Ji Fa (combat practice)

 

To answer your question, it does cultivate the subtle body, clear channels and roots you very well.

 

I only have a very basic understanding, but I understand Taiji is being very yielding, Hsing-Yi is more aggressive, and Bagua is both. Hsing-Yi is more of a striking art, Taiji more of a grappling, and Bagua is both. At least this is the way BK explains it in his book.

 

I will have to disagree with BK. All internal arts are about the balancing of yin and yang. As such I believe no internal art to be more focussed on any one aspect of combat. Such differences may shine through in the variety of different forms available in each style, as well as the individuality of the practitioners.

 

I believe the difference to lie in the body mechanics developed by the variety of training methods available. For example, I know that Bagua practitioners have amazing footwork due to their circle walking methods.

 

There is a fantastic book on internal arts by Lu Shengli called Combat Techniques of Taiji, Xingyi and Bagua. The book is worth the purchase alone for the first three chapters. Chapter four does delve into his own form, but judging from his knowledge, experience and level of cultivation I would imagine this form is worth learning rather than ignoring.

 

I hope this information is of some help,

James

Edited July 24, 2008 by .broken.

[steve]

I-chuan cultivates the core that taiji bagua xingyi etc rests upon.

Nicely stated - another perspective is that Yiquan is less differentiated than Taiji, Xingyi, or Bagua.

[Pranaman]

awesome.

[WhiteTiger]

Nicely stated - another perspective is that Yiquan is less differentiated than Taiji, Xingyi, or Bagua.

 

I like the way Spectrum stated that quoted comment by Xuesheng also, along with the way Xuesheng explained it.

 

Great knowledge by the way .Broken. I learned some stuff YAY!

 

'Hsing Yi strikes like lightning, Ba Gua twists like a tornado, Tai Chi is like a great ocean - deep and calm but reserves immeasurable power'

 

- Master Wei Lun Huang

I'm sure these metaphors were not only used by Master Huang, but this is his exact quote, so i thought i would properly tag it.

 

This quote talks about its cultivation process in the general. At least in energy terms. Remember the Power or Jin might be applied slightly different depending whom is teaching (At least when we compare different masters) Actually to get a better understanding and learn more from what people say online try looking at www. EmptyFlower.net Specially if you look at old posts... i guess they get into more detail then your looking for but still would be beneficial.

 

(A little about Ba Gua that i understand keeping in mind I have never practiced Ba Gua)...

Ba Gua biggest difference, or shall i say difference in training is its circle walking. They bring about different aspects, basically the eight trigrams.

 

(A little about Hsing I. Understanding that i'm a complete novice with very little experience in Xing Yi)...

Xing Yi, also translated to Mind and Form boxing, (Yi meaning Mind for example what is the state of your mind, or intent. Xing Meaning Shape or Form, and well its a martial art so we call it boxing) Is the practice and understanding of the Functions. Through proper training of the art in functions trainning you can learn the 5 elements and their "FUNCTION" (thus why its called Functions) and play in cultivation on martial level, and can draw parallel from spiritual cultivation or possibly do spiritual cultivation while learning such a martial art.

 

(A little about Taijiquan as I have very little experience in such a subject)

This art seems to be extremely adaptable to many different ages. Sadly this art is often times more than not butchered in proper practice, or lack of complete practice. The biggest and most important thing about Taiji is the practice of balance of Yin and Yang. Because as stated by Master Huang the ocean is created by the balance of Yin and Yang and thus making its martial practices stem from Yin and Yang.

[guangping]

Tai chi is based on the tai chi symbol, a figure eight within a circle. It was created on close combat grappling moves.

 

Hsing I is based on the circular within a straight line, and generates a lot of power.

 

Pa kua is based on creating a centrifugal force in walking the circle, and the power generated in changing direction.

 

I Chuan is a good complement to all practices, as it involves energetic meditation and then taking that awareness into movement.

 

The best way to learn is Hsing I first, then tai chi, then Pa Kua, with I Chuan added to all. If you add the internal aspects to them, then all can be pretty devastating.

 

Tai chi is based on the tai chi symbol, a figure eight within a circle. It was created on close combat grappling moves.

 

Hsing I is based on the circular within a straight line, and generates a lot of power.

 

Pa kua is based on creating a centrifugal force in walking the circle, and the power generated in changing direction.

 

I Chuan is a good complement to all practices, as it involves energetic meditation and then taking that awareness into movement.

 

The best way to learn is Hsing I first, then tai chi, then Pa Kua, with I Chuan added to all. If you add the internal aspects to them, then all can be pretty devastating.