SodaChanh Posted January 9 In quantum speak you are a quantum system affecting the reality (so to speak). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted January 9 Could be ..... ' I ' ( my 'I ' aside from my body ) popped into existence ..... where did I come from .... pop! Oh he is gone (one day ) ... where did he go ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted January 10 There is an interesting hypothesis of consciousness being rooted in quantum states in intra-neuronal microtubules. This is a collaboration between an anesthesiologist, Stuart Hameroff, and physicist, Roger Penrose. There are plenty of valid criticisms but it's an interesting line of inquiry. https://academic.oup.com/nc/article/2025/1/niaf011/8127081?login=false https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1571064513001188?via%3Dihub 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wstein Posted January 10 The title is misleading, either your brain or your consciousness is 'quantum' depending on how you interpret the research. You are not your tools. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tommy Posted yesterday at 01:45 PM Not sure what is meant by Quantum?? When physicist thought about the world, there were two things. One was the world at large. The night sky showed that there is a universe with many strange things. Then there is the world of the very small. Molecules, atoms, protons and electrons and then down to quarks. All of it thought of as particles. However, the world of the very small stuff seems to have no accuracy. Only probability seems to be allowed. The two slit experiment is one that seems to defy logic. Light or photons travel thru the two slits and create a wave pattern . This can be done also with electrons which one believes is a particle. The same thing happens. There is a pattern of wave interference. But, when one watches to determine a particle travels thru the slit. The pattern then become two lines. The act of observing the electrons seems to cause the wave form function to collapse. So what are we talking about when it comes to Quantum and Consciousness? Probability and statistics? One doesn't just live in the world of the very small. There is also the very large. Are we talking about forces? Gravity, electro-magnetism, strong force, weak force? The topic is not clear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted yesterday at 04:03 PM 2 hours ago, Tommy said: So what are we talking about when it comes to Quantum and Consciousness? Probability and statistics? One doesn't just live in the world of the very small. There is also the very large. Are we talking about forces? Gravity, electro-magnetism, strong force, weak force? The topic is not clear. It's definitely not very clear or easy to grasp but if you have the patience to read through the second paper I referenced above it does a very nice job of walking through fundamental ways of thinking about consciousness, quantum mechanics, and how the two could relate to one another in the context of the brain, nervous system, and beyond. It's not an easy read but I find the ideas and methods of inquiry fascinating. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1571064513001188?via%3Dihub Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tommy Posted 21 hours ago 2 hours ago, steve said: It's definitely not very clear or easy to grasp but if you have the patience to read through the second paper I referenced Sorry no patience. Too long-didn't read. If one needs to refer to a complex paper about the nature of consciousness then maybe the subject is also too complex for simple discussions on a social forum. But, then again, it depends upon the participants. I like meditation cause it doesn't require deep thoughts and complex math. It doesn't need ideas of how one thinks one exists. And that is the attractiveness of meditation even if I can not do it properly. Guess, I will sit in my delusions a while longer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 16 hours ago (edited) 9 hours ago, Tommy said: Not sure what is meant by Quantum?? The smallest unit of whatever . meaning changes in usage and context Quote When physicist thought about the world, there were two things. One was the world at large. The night sky showed that there is a universe with many strange things. Then there is the world of the very small. Molecules, atoms, protons and electrons and then down to quarks. All of it thought of as particles. However, the world of the very small stuff seems to have no accuracy. Only probability seems to be allowed. 3 things actually ( Law of Threes ) ; the very big (astrophysics ) , the very small ( quantum physics ... hence the above definition ) and the ;middle world' - where we live ( physics ) in the higher and lower, variations of the laws that apply to the middle are observable . Quote The two slit experiment is one that seems to defy logic. Because logic was developed in the middle world . Quote Light or photons travel thru the two slits and create a wave pattern . This can be done also with electrons which one believes is a particle. The same thing happens. There is a pattern of wave interference. But, when one watches to determine a particle travels thru the slit. The pattern then become two lines. The act of observing the electrons seems to cause the wave form function to collapse. But only when observed through certain 'measuring devices' ... not observing via human consciousness .... there is your hint . To make t simple ( although a bad and wrong example, it is just to get the idea across ; if you look at everything with rose tinted glasses ..... Quote So what are we talking about when it comes to Quantum and Consciousness? It is basically about 'non local consciousness ' . Materialistic model is consciousness is generated by brain ... brain dead - consciousnesses gone . Non local 'scientific model' - parts of the brain act as receivers for non localized and generated consciousness , other parts of the brain generate lower types of consciousnesses - hence when we die , some aspects of 'self' are gone but other aspects of consciousness continue . In the pure non-local scientific view .. all of consciousness is received by the brain and does not generate it .... that seems to suggest all consciousness might survive non brain function . All models are not fully understood and seem to contain 'problems' . Quote Probability and statistics? One doesn't just live in the world of the very small. There is also the very large. Are we talking about forces? Gravity, electro-magnetism, strong force, weak force? The topic is not clear. The 'four forces' are of physics .... if you have read my paper on 3:4 theory (number theory ) 1 would be electro-magnetism ( where all these strange quarky things reside .. we are not sure what it actually is but it splits into two ... just like the Dao ... + and - (poles) or strong and weak forces strong holds thing together , unlike gravity , in a 'stretchy way ' ( meaning the further apart , the stronger it gets ) weak force allows particles to decay or change their nature . [ Like entropy and negentropy being the 'states' or results of the mechanisms , while positive and weak forces are the physical mechanisms ] all three in interaction produce * 4. gravity .... which is considered a weaker force than the others . * this idea of the three producing the forth is affirmed by my number theory and was considered wacky . I floated it years back in talks on neo-hermetics . of course not many were interested or could follow, I remember Brian was up for it and found my observations interesting ( when we discussing the mathematical formula for the ' Theory of everything '..... but now science has moved on ! - see below ; Spoiler do the first 3 forces produce gravity ? In a way, yes. While they are separate forces, they contribute to the total gravity of an object because of how energy and mass are related. According to Einstein’s General Relativity, gravity is not just caused by "stuff" (mass), but by energy. Since the other three forces involve energy, they actually "produce" a small portion of the gravity we measure. How They "Create" Gravity The Energy-Mass Link ( ): In General Relativity, gravity is caused by the Stress-Energy Tensor. This means that any form of energy—including the energy stored in these forces—curves spacetime and creates a gravitational pull. The Strong Force's Massive Contribution: Most of your body's weight actually comes from the strong force. Protons and neutrons are made of quarks, but the quarks themselves are very light. About 99% of a nucleon's mass is actually the binding energy of the strong force holding them together. If you removed the strong force, you would lose almost all your mass (and therefore your gravity). Electromagnetism and Weak Force: These also contribute to an object's total energy (and thus its gravity), but their contribution to the mass of everyday objects is much smaller than that of the strong force. The "Theory of Everything" While these forces all contribute to gravity via their energy, physicists do not yet have a single proven theory that "produces" gravity from the other three. The Standard Model: This theory successfully explains the strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces using particles (gluons, bosons, photons). The Gravity Problem: Gravity doesn't fit into this particle model yet. Scientists are still searching for a Quantum Gravity theory—often called a Theory of Everything—that would prove all four forces are actually different versions of one single "super-force" that existed at the beginning of the universe. They are but the process of 'unfolding' reveals why gravity will or will not fit into a particular theory ( like all forces came into existence together ) one force came from Null , that made two polarities , thus 'creating' , now, three things and from them (interacting ) came the 4th - Gravity . It is evident everywhere in nature ! ) Edited 16 hours ago by Nungali 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 16 hours ago ... well ... dont ask such questions in the first place if you think this is not the place for it . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted 15 hours ago (edited) If the Big Bang occurred 13.8 billion years ago, then take this value of how old we all are since reincarnation doesn't work in a linear way. You'll experience one if your future selves after this one or go back 4,000 years or elsewhere in another realm for that matter. BB is expanding into our future; it didn't mean a conventional explosion of matter into existing space. Instead, it was the rapid expansion of space itself. Now you can see how the big picture works if you bring together the concepts of singularity, BB, yin-yang, the five dimensions of yy, reincarnation, sentient beings being eternal and the Tao itself (sum of all consciousness). I firmly believe the historic Buddha experienced the BB. Other seekers may or may have not experienced it directly. Edited 15 hours ago by Gerard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tommy Posted 14 hours ago 2 hours ago, Nungali said: ... well ... dont ask such questions in the first place if you think this is not the place for it . That isn't what I said. But if you wish it so then what can I say? I just do not exactly agree with your views. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted 12 hours ago 9 hours ago, Tommy said: Sorry no patience. Too long-didn't read. I can relate. I rarely read or ponder this sort of thing any longer. I spend far more time practicing than studying or thinking about it. On the other hand, some topics do catch my interest and this happens to be one. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted 10 hours ago Likewise. Practice more important than intellectualism but I find fascinating the relationship between inner reality according to the Taoist framework (and also a bit of Buddhism too) and Western cosmology. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 8 hours ago 5 hours ago, Tommy said: That isn't what I said. But if you wish it so then what can I say? I just do not exactly agree with your views. '' ... then maybe the subject is also too complex for simple discussions on a social forum. '' after that you asked a series of questions . I tried to answer them for you . You facepalmed me , I didnt realize 'facepalm' was ' I did not exactly agree with your views . ? You actually did agree with my views in some cases , or visa versa , maybe you missed that ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tommy Posted 2 hours ago 9 hours ago, steve said: I can relate. I rarely read or ponder this sort of thing any longer. I spend far more time practicing than studying or thinking about it. On the other hand, some topics do catch my interest and this happens to be one. I can related. There is a curiosity about the nature of the univderse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tommy Posted 2 hours ago 6 hours ago, Nungali said: '' ... then maybe the subject is also too complex for simple discussions on a social forum. '' after that you asked a series of questions . I tried to answer them for you . You facepalmed me , I didnt realize 'facepalm' was ' I did not exactly agree with your views . ? You actually did agree with my views in some cases , or visa versa , maybe you missed that ? I have had you on the ignore list for a long time. And now you have reminded me of why that was. Yes, facepalm is a disagreement. But, you are free to view it as any way you would like. That is the beauty of emojis. Cause they represent more of an emotion rather than words. Live long and prosper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted 1 hour ago 1 hour ago, Tommy said: There is a curiosity about the nature of the univderse. Curiosity is most wonderful and is the motivating factor for both my interest in meditation and my interest in science. Each is a valid and valuable avenue of exploration of the nature of me, which is not separate from the nature of the universe. I would feel incomplete if I didn't give some of my attention to each. For me, both are inextricably connected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve Posted 58 minutes ago 1 hour ago, Tommy said: I have had you on the ignore list for a long time. And now you have reminded me of why that was. Nungali is like life. Sometimes they will slap you in the face, sometimes tickle you with joy, sometimes you feel like you just need a break, and at other times they will surprise you with the unexpected. I have ignored some people here on occasion (never Nungali though) when not modding. One of the downsides of being a mod/admin - you can't ignore people. I haven't felt the need to do so in a long time, probably not since the great right wing expulsion. The people who irritate me the most are pointing to something in me that is worthy of acknowledgement, recognition, and reconciliation. It's a bit like forgiveness in that it is more for the one offering than for the one receiving, though both can ultimately benefit. Now that I've spouted off some wise sounding words, someone will probably piss me off enough to put them on ignore any time now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites