Endless desire

[Keith108]

Since this was posted in the Buddhist sub, here is a Zen story for this kind of condition, which ZM Seung Sahn turned into a kong an (koan):

Quote

 

10. The Old Woman Burns the Hermitage

 

It is said that if you practice hard for ten years you will attain something. So, as is customary among many Buddhist laypeople, an old woman in China once supported a monk for ten years. She provided him with food and clothing, and allowed him to live in a hermitage that she provided. For his part, the monk only practiced very, very hard, and did not have to concern himself with anything else.

 

After ten years, however, there was still no news from the monk. "What did he attain?" she wondered. "I must test this monk." So one afternoon, the woman summoned her sixteen-year-old daughter, who was considered one of the most beautiful girls in the village. Her mother asked her to put on makeup, her best perfume, and clothing made of the finest materials. Then she gave her daughter instructions for testing the monk, loaded her up with plenty of fine food and clothing, and sent her off to the hermitage.

 

The woman's daughter was very excited about the plan! When she arrived at the hermitage, she bowed to the monk and said, "You have been here for ten years, so my mother made this special food and clothing for you." "Oh, thank you very much," the monk replied. "Your mother is a great Bodhisattva for supporting me like this for so long." Just then, the girl strongly embraced the monk, kissed him, and said, "How do you feel now?" "Rotten log on cold rocks. No warmth in winter."

 

Releasing him, the girl bowed deeply and said, "You are certainly a great monk!" She returned home, full of happiness and admiration, to report the incident to her mother. "Mother, Mother! This monk's center is very strong, his mind is not moving! He must have attained something!" "It doesn't matter if his center is very strong, or if his mind cannot be moved, or if he is a wonderful monk. What I want to know is, what did he say?" "Oh, his words were also wonderful, Mother. He said, 'Rotten log on cold rocks. No warmth in winter."'

 

"What!?" the old woman shouted. Fuming, she grabbed a big stick, ran to the hermitage and mercilessly beat the monk, shouting, "Go away! Get out of here! I've spent ten years helping a demon!" Then she burned the hermitage to the ground.

 

1. What kind of practice did this monk do for ten years ?

2. The girl strongly embraced the monk and said, "How do you feel now?" If you were the monk, what could you do?

3. Where is the monk's mistake?

4. What did the old woman attain that made her beat the monk?

5. If you were the old woman and the monk said, "Rotten log on cold rocks. No warmth in winter," what kind of teaching could you give him?

 

COMMENTARY: Mother has mother's job, daughter has daughter's job, businessman has businessman's job, monk has monk's job. If you don't understand your job, you don't understand your responsibility. This monk sat for ten years. What is his job? If you are holding something, and attached to something, then you lose your original job. Put it all down, then your original job and your correct situation, correct relationship, and correct function will appear clearly. If you understand one, you lose everything. If you attain one, then you get everything. Be careful! What are you doing now? Just do it.

 

Sahn,Seung. Whole World is a Single Flower: 365 Kong-ans for Everyday Life with Questions and Commentary by Zen Master Seung Sahn and a Forword by Stephen Mitchell (pp. 47-49). Tuttle Publishing. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

The Buddha only taught two things: Dukkha and the end of Dukkha. Dukkha is the dissatisfaction of not getting enough of the things we want, and too much of the things we don't. Getting one's emotions under control is good, but another step is needed.

 

As Oldbob mentioned, desire can be a useful energy. In Zen terms, the desire to wake up our to our true selves keeps us on the path. And then, when we see that, we help others to do the same.

 

To me, that is the ultimate teaching of the Buddha's enlightenment. He didn't just sit there with the knowledge of his true self. He shared it with the world. 

 

_/|\_

Keith

[Tommy]

2 hours ago, Keith108 said:

The Buddha only taught two things: Dukkha and the end of Dukkha. Dukkha is the dissatisfaction of not getting enough of the things we want, and too much of the things we don't. Getting one's emotions under control is good, but another step is needed.

 

I am sorry. I disagree with this "Buddha only taught two things." When you live with a person and follow them around, you learn their manner and their wisdom and their compassion. The Buddha might have only spoken about Dukka but much more was passed on than just words. The Dharma is not just about Dukka. Well, that is just my opinion. And, I accept that I am probably wrong. So no argument. I will bow to your wisdom and live the way I see fit.

 

With respect to the story, everyone has their own opinion. The monk has his. The daughter has hers. The old woman certainly has hers. Not everyone agrees. And so I have mine. Apologies.

Edited yesterday at 03:41 PM by Tommy

[Tommy]

7 hours ago, Cadcam said:

I guess I shouldn't say i crave these things, craving implies some sort of carnal hunger. It's just a want that I notice when I find no satisfaction. 

Well there is that poster that says, ...

The person says, "I want happiness"

The poster says to get rid of the "I" because that is ego

Then goes on to say that "want" is desire and to get rid of that 

Then all that is left is "happiness". Lol.

Edited yesterday at 04:08 PM by Tommy

[steve]

On 12/26/2025 at 1:11 PM, Cadcam said:

I dont know, i can only say that nothing satisfies. I'm like a blank slate. I don't feel love or joy hardly at all. I don't feel much of anything. 

 

This may not be a symptom of progress. 

When the mind is truly quiet and open, not grasping, there are qualities that arise spontaneously - warmth, joy, compassion, and creativity. The absence of these energetic manifestations of the base is an indication that something is blocking our progress. Often it is an aberrant view such as nihilism or an unbalanced practice, prioritizing the mental over the physical and emotional, for example. Another common cause of this sort of deviation is bypassing, neglecting to bring our real life challenges onto the cushion, or neglecting to bring our practice into life's activities, in a way that supports genuine transformation.

Something to consider if you feel like there is something lacking in your life or your practice. 

 

[Keith108]

3 hours ago, Tommy said:

I am sorry. I disagree with this "Buddha only taught two things." When you live with a person and follow them around, you learn their manner and their wisdom and their compassion. The Buddha might have only spoken about Dukka but much more was passed on than just words. The Dharma is not just about Dukka. Well, that is just my opinion. And, I accept that I am probably wrong. So no argument. I will bow to your wisdom and live the way I see fit.

 

With respect to the story, everyone has their own opinion. The monk has his. The daughter has hers. The old woman certainly has hers. Not everyone agrees. And so I have mine. Apologies.

Hi Tommy,

 

No need to apologize for disagreeing! That's a nice feature of Buddhism. It is (except for Pure Land) a "self-power" religion. It's up to you to take on board what is useful, and reject what isn't. A teacher helps to keep things going in the right direction.

 

My take is all of Buddhism is an expedient means to point us to a shift that can only be experienced. Originally, there is no dukkha, no end of dukkha. But, it is pretty easy to track down quotes from the Buddha where he says words to the effect of "I teach dukkha, and the end of dukkha." Of course, those quotes weren't actually written down in the Pali Suttas until over 400 years after his death, so who knows? And, there is some debate about the exact way to translate it. But, the gist is there.

 

Regarding opinions, be careful. They are one of the main ways the idea of a self is reified. The story simply cautions us not to become dead, unfeeling robots, like the monk did. This a major misunderstanding, especially from the Mahayana perspective. It's not a matter of simple opinion.

 

Also, I would just like to point out that for me, online conversations are just "shooting the bull" kind of conversations. I suspect I come across as some kind of Buddhist know-it-all. There is no tone of voice, body language, etc., to our conversations here. Just words on a screen, and we as readers are left to fill in the tone, etc. It's a very poor substitute for in-person conversations.

 

_/|\_

Keith

 

[Tommy]

5 hours ago, Keith108 said:

Regarding opinions, be careful. They are one of the main ways the idea of a self is reified. The story simply cautions us not to become dead, unfeeling robots, like the monk did. This a major misunderstanding, especially from the Mahayana perspective. It's not a matter of simple opinion.

The story also points out that wisdom without compassion is meaningless. As the monk does realize the daughter is there not because of some great emotional connection. But, he misses the point of her being there at all. And thus, having realized the monk has not learned this, the old woman burnt the hermitage down which also shows that wisdom without compassion is not complete.

 

5 hours ago, Keith108 said:

Also, I would just like to point out that for me, online conversations are just "shooting the bull" kind of conversations. I suspect I come across as some kind of Buddhist know-it-all. There is no tone of voice, body language, etc., to our conversations here. Just words on a screen, and we as readers are left to fill in the tone, etc. It's a very poor substitute for in-person conversations.

True, words on paper do not always convey the true tone of the words. However, from what I have read of your posts, I do realize that you do have much more knowledge of these matters and also have given them much more thought than I have. So, I have no wish to argue a pointless point and just leave it to opinion.

Edited 23 hours ago by Tommy

[Keith108]

39 minutes ago, Tommy said:

The story also points out that wisdom without compassion is meaningless. As the monk does realize the daughter is there not because of some great emotional connection. But, he misses the point of her being there at all. And thus, having realized the monk has not learned this, the old woman burnt the hermitage down which also shows that wisdom without compassion is not complete.

 

True words on paper do not always convey the true tone of the words. However, from what I have read of your posts, I do realize that you do have much more knowledge of these matters and also have given them much more thought than I have. So, I have no wish to argue a pointless point and just leave it to opinion.

 

Haha! I have actually never heard anyone check the old woman's behavior. I guess I am used to looking at "the point" of the story when reading zen tales. One of the checking questions in the kong an (koan) addresses the what the old woman attained when she heard about the monks response. 

 

Anyway, I appreciate the kind words, and the conversation.

 

_/|\_

 

[Krenx]

On 12/28/2025 at 9:15 AM, Cadcam said:

Yes, I feel bad energy when I cuss,  or do anything immoral 

 

"Feeling" bad is not even the worst part of immorality. The fruits of bad kamma will come. Try your best to position and set yourself up for success in the future. 

 

Don't harm yourself anymore by doing immoral stuff. 🙏