What does 元亨利贞 really mean?

[ChiDragon]

Okay, now we have 8 trigrams to symbolize the phenomena that was observed from nature. However, there was no written language in the ancient past. Therefore, only symbols were used as images to express some simple ideas. In our case, people saw water running down from top of the mountain. So, the water trigram was placed on top of the mountain trigram. Along the running water, it destroyed everything in its path. People see danger in water, hereinafter, people will be fear of water is dangerous. The hexagram also suggests that going the mountains is dangerous. When it was used in divination, the first thing they see is danger ahead. 

Edited Monday at 06:50 PM by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

12 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

You know how to read modern Chinese.  That does not translate into the study of the I Ching. 

I will not argue about this with your preconceived idea. So, peace!

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

I will not argue about this with your preconceived idea. So, peace!

 

Not "preconceived."  Experiential.  I'd rather you don't argue with me about anything (key words "you" and "me," not you and anyone else or me and anyone else) but that's up to you of course.       

[Cobie]

 

17 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Juicy !   Have you read it ? 

 

( I'll tackle it later  )  

No, I just looked at the intro, and a bit of the beginning. It’s all a bit outside my knowledge area. I was hoping someone else would comment. Looking forward to your analysis. 

 

I remember Awaken claiming Xia China was in the Nile delta. There’s a Dutch guy (van Praag) suggesting Daoism was started by teachings from Jews living in China. I really don’t have the knowedge to comment, but feel rather sceptical.

[Nungali]

Its a slog through it .   I did a speed read about  and am about half way through , the evidence seems thin .  Some things did spread west to east 'across the top' like some types of original metal working .  But I have not found evidence of the claims yet . 

 

Yeah , they both have horses ... wheeled carts  *  etc . 

 

if these sorts of studies had great merit , others would be blowing a trumpet about it  ... ie, they would not be such isolated articles and attention would be bought to them more ....... usually .

 

There are some exceptions though  ....   BMAC  /  STAC / 'Oxus'   civilization  was touted to be the 4th major developing civilization ( along with China Middle east  Indus Egypt  .... and only entered western knowledge in the 70s ...  but that has not really made a 'big noise ' 

 

'people'  ( history buffs , etc ) seem more interested in war battles and 'great' military men     

 

*  not that wheeled carts thing again !   

 

Many an argument about that !  Usually to do with IE influence into  IVC   ..... IE  bought  wheeled carts to India !    sigh  ....

 

IE were known for horse and development of chariots , which are different to wheeled carts ... just about everyone had wheeled carts  , and IE were responsible (or their ancestors were ) for horse domestication ....  ( which happened long before people started using them to pull carts or chariots  )   ... its all complex and  too far off topic for this thread  though .  In sort , I am yet to be convinced by that article 

[Nungali]

Here is the summary  a few points  and anyone with knowledge in a specific area , feel free to comment ; 

The evidence conveying that the Zhou had received Indo-European influence is as follows:

• The Western Rong consisted of several Indo-European tribes.

• King Wen Wang, who was from Western Yi, was the founder of the Zhou dynasty.

• The Zhou and the Qiang (an Indo-European tribe) people intermarried for generations.

( I see no great significance in this as people travelled and traded  waaaay back from  across Kazakistan , Mongolia and further east  ( 'across the top ' )   and technology passed to and from , intiermarriage might be normal through many trade routes )

• Fuxi, who may himself have been Indo-European, created the trigrams, a type of binary and

tripartite system of divination, which are classical Indo-European cultural beliefs.

.....  ( might make a good separate thread ? ) 

• There are Indo-European words (stems) in Old Chinese. The trigram names of the Yijing are one

such example.

( ?  )  

• The connections between Huangdi, Xiwangmu, jade, Yuzhi or Yuezhi, Qiang and the Western

Rong, together with the special place they hold in ancient China’s myths, demonstrate that the

myths were possibly Indo-European in origin

( possibly  ?    

• There is a large discrepancy between archaeological discoveries and classical records in terms

of the beginning of agriculture.

• The historical records portray a nomadic tribe struggling to accept a “civilized”—non-

nomadic—life.

( seems common in a few places  ) 

• Houji was revered perhaps because he may have introduced sophisticated agricultural ways to

these semi-nomadic peoples.

( '' may have  ''  ) 

• The Zhou worshiped a Sky God, which is a core Indo-European belief.

( so did  Ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, Mesopotamia various Native American, Australian and other indigenous cultures ) .

 A level of writing adequate for creating records was developed only in the late Shang and early

Zhou, and that, combined with the Zhou’s culture of an interest in recording history, is the

reason we read the Zhou’s history and not that of the indigenous people.

• The Zhou eventually developed a type of caste or social class system, another Indo-European

trait.

( again, common elsewhere , many cultures had social classes  or 'professional guilds'  or divisions ) 

• The Zhou chariots in China present in many burials, also a Indo-European trait.

( this does seem a particular I E  trait ) 

• The Yellow Emperor and the Zhou royal classes were connected through the name or character

Ji 姬.

• The Yellow Emperor used characters that hint of a chariot-like vehicle.

(  hint ?  ) 

[Cobie]

 

On 02/12/2025 at 10:37 AM, 心神 ~ said:

… I've always been interested in the appearance of a threefold pattern in the Daodejing, so that catches my eye. …

 

The “threefold”  =  the binary poles + integration.
It’s always about integration: {陰 (yin) + 陽 (yang)} ~> 中 (zhong)

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:04 PM by Cobie

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

The “threefold”  =  the binary poles + integration.
It’s always about integration: {陰 (yin) + 陽 (yang)} ~> 中 (zhong)

 

 

 

 

One end .... the other end  ..... and the stuff in the middle  

 

 

 

[Cobie]

 ‘Tao ‘ sounds the same as the Dutch word for rope (touw). 
 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:19 PM by Cobie

[Nungali]

Noooo ..... you be mixed up with 'tow  rope '  ; 

 

 

 

 

 

 

; 

 

Edited yesterday at 06:28 AM by Nungali

[forestofclarity]

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