Buddhist practices and Neidan

[Bhathen]

Some of the folks here seem to practice both Buddhism and qigong/taichi, so I thought I’d ask if the two practices are compatible? Do Zen and Vajrayana practitioners also progress through the same stages of neidan?

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Bhathen

[心神 ~]

For me, they flow together. Qigong and seasonal living keeps me grounded in the cycles of body and nature. Buddhism, especially the Eightfold Path, gives me a practical, day-to-day focus so I'm not just circulating energy, I'm directing it toward ethical development. So I think Buddhism and qigong (and wider Taoist practice) are definitely compatible. They reinforce each other. The Buddhist side keeps me honest about intention and ethics, the Taoist side keeps me tuned to the body and the seasons. One emphasizes liberation, the other emphasizes harmony.
 

In my practice right now, that looks like lung support, moistening foods, breath-focused practice, letting go qigong, and divination around endings and storage (Taoist side of things), as well as focusing on Right Mindfulness, witnessing grief and release, siting with what’s fading without clinging, and gentle awareness sharpening (Buddhist).
 

I don't practice Zen or Vajrayana. While it's my basic understand that the systems have some similarity, like breath dissolving into stillness, body changing with the seasons, subtle shifts in how awareness feels in the spine or chest, etc, I believe overall they're different systems with different goals (thought they may complement one another). Daoist work is about cycles of refining essence, qi, and spirit. In Zen it’s more about peeling away illusions until only clarity is left. I'm least familiar with Vajrayana, so I can't say for sure how they align. They may be compatible and mutually reinforcing, but I wouldn’t say equate Daoist neidan with Zen or Vajrayana. Here's how progression may look between the three systems:
 

 

Neidan (Daoist Internal Alchemy)	Chan/Zen (Buddhism)	Vajrayana (Tibetan)
Foundation (zhuji): conduct, diet, breath, lifestyle; quieting xin	Precepts/discipline: sila, posture, calming the mind	Ngöndro/prelims: refuge, bodhicitta, purification, guru yoga; basic channel regulation
Refining jing → qi: conserve essence; lower dantian; small heavenly circulation	Samadhi building: zazen stabilizes body–mind; energy naturally conserved	Generation stage: deity visualization, mantra; guide winds into channels
Refining qi → shen: circulate qi; harmonize yin/yang; nourish spirit	Insight: kenshō; seeing emptiness; stabilize awareness	Completion stage: tsa-lung/tummo; winds dissolve into central channel
Refining shen → emptiness: return spirit to source; “immortal embryo”	Integration: body-mind dropped off; non-clinging clarity	Union of winds/drops/mind: clear light; mahāmudrā/ dzogchen recognition
Union with Dao: return to origin; harmony/“immortality”	Buddha-nature manifest: liberation from samsara	Buddhahood/rainbow body: complete realization

[forestofclarity]

You are going to get different answers depending on who you ask. Many say they are compatible, and many teachers and masters have been recognized across multiple traditions (such as Master Nan). Many Vajrayana teachers, lamas, and students also do taiji, qigong, and/or practice Traditional Chinese medicine and other modalities. Some of these people are very serious and some of them are new age mix-and-matchers. 

 

Less common are people who say they are incompatible on both sides. They also tend to presume their specific line/teaching/tradition is correct and all others are wrong, so it would make sense. These tend to be more serious practitioners in their specific tradition. 

 

Usually, it is said that Buddhists go from Xing to Ming and Daoists from Ming to Xing. I think this is on point in certain ways considering Chan and Daoism. However, it is also not really so clear cut. 

 

I don't think the three groups necessarily follow the same development pattern. I don't think even within the three groups there is the same development pattern or even widespread agreement. For example, a Gelugpa Tantric practitioner is going to have a different path than a Dzogchenpa. A lot of Daoists cannot agree on basic things such as what a dan tian is or what the elixer is. Between the groups, Vajrayaya people don't usually develop external qi emission and I haven't heard of people outside of Vajrayana going into thukdam. Classic Zen shares some with each, such as the development of the hara (with Daoism) and the focus on Xing (with Vajrayana). 

 

I think different people have different karmic links that will bring them to different schools. I think that each school has its batch of authentic and inauthentic teachers, but at core they are living traditions with established lineages. 

 

 

 

 

[Master Logray]

That depends on which type of Buddhism is or which type of Taoism.   Chinese Buddhism like Zen historically mixed with Taoism quite well .  But it may not be true for other branches.   

 

Another viewpoint is the level.  When it is more elementary more technical more restricted in scope, then one cannot assume mixing of practices is safe.   It is even true for mixing different Taoist practices.   

[Leif]

I liked dzogchen teacher who used to say "use what works for you".
Anyway, Tsoknyi Rinpoche includes qigong somewhere, I believe I have seen it in their online course: https://fullybeing.org/courses/warmups/
And I have heard one buddhist practitioner talking about going very early out in the field to practice, only meeting I believe Tsikey Chokling Rinpoche practicing some kind of qigong.
And I have listened to Lama Lena's teaching few days ago, while to one practitioner she recommended tummo IIRC, to another taichi, based on what she thought was best for each individual.

[ChiDragon]

19 hours ago, Bhathen said:

Some of the folks here seem to practice both Buddhism and qigong/taichi, so I thought I’d ask if the two practices are compatible? Do Zen and Vajrayana practitioners also progress through the same stages of neidan?

 

 

Yes, I believe both practices are compatible. When you are speaking about Zen(褝), I think the term "neidan(內丹)" used here is inappropriate. It is because the practice of neidan was practiced by ancient Taoist to prolong life; the intention was to become an immortal. However, Buddhism believes in reincarnation. 

Edited 1 hour ago by ChiDragon