Marketing and Magic

[Nungali]

15 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Both the engine and transmission feel very ordinary

 

Okay ,   I  can understand that's what you feel . but its  curious you picked those two aspects first , as the car has a very good reliable  V6 2.5 Lt engine with plenty of power in the mid-range .   Its 20 years old and has never had an engine problem .  Only proper timed maintenance ;  timing belts and other components that naturally wear over decades .  

 

{ The Rover 75 with a 2.5-liter engine is powered by the KV6, a 24-valve, quad-cam V6 engine designed by Rover. This engine was also used in the Rover 800 before being refined for the 75. The 2.5-liter KV6 is known for its smoothness, refinement, and sporty performance when pushed, offering a good balance of power and a desirable V6 sound, especially when the car is in sport mode.}

 

The transmission is extraordinary . I have never experienced  a system like that  - automatic  with  a  automatic kick down through the gears  with high engine breaking . . .  limiting the need to hold the breaks on ;   slight pressure on the break pedal, auto kick down , high engine breaking, foot off the brake pedal .

 

My mechanic , who is ex- pit crew racing mechanic , even he was impressed with its breaking set up . 

 

So, the point is , and  I am wondering , what stimulus you received and where it was from that caused you to  form this opinion  ?  

 

 

Quote

 

The car feels a bit depressed.  I would not buy it

 

The car feels depressed   ?   

 

Is that because it 'feels a bit blue '  ?

 

{  "Feeling blue" is an idiom that means feeling sad or melancholic. It's a common way to express a temporary state of low spirits or sadness, distinct from clinical depression. }  

Edited July 20 by Nungali

[Lairg]

The car is one of the bodies used by a nature spirit

 

 

[Nungali]

Is the car depressed  because its body is possessed by a nature spirit , or  for some other reason  ? 

 

 

 

 

[Lairg]

Years ago when I took the head off a Honda Civic, the nature spirit left.

 

When the head went back on the same nature spirit came back.  It seemed that the firing of the cylinders was the primary anchor.

 

Long ago as I carried home a boombox, I noticed it had a curled up nature spirit inside.   After I played some music I could see the nature spirit uncurling

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, Lairg said:

Years ago when I took the head off a Honda Civic, the nature spirit left.

 

When the head went back on the same nature spirit came back.  It seemed that the firing of the cylinders was the primary anchor.

 

Long ago as I carried home a boombox, I noticed it had a curled up nature spirit inside.   After I played some music I could see the nature spirit uncurling

 

 

 

 

 

One more question . 

 

When someone is conversing with you and asks simple polite questions ....

 

why don't you ever answer them but continually   divert  to  some 'cosmo-spiritual' ,  self-centered  narration  ?  

[Nungali]

So obviously that won;t get a clear answer either  , since you never give one . 

 

So I will answer it myself .... 

 

 

" I am 'magically marketing'    myself ."      

 

[Lairg]

As you see, motivation is a filter

 

 

[BigSkyDiamond]

48 minutes ago, Nungali said:

So obviously that won;t get a clear answer either  , since you never give one . 

 

50 minutes ago, Nungali said:

why don't you ever answer them but continually   divert  to  some 'cosmo-spiritual' ,  self-centered  narration  ?  

 

a. discuss the topic, not the individuals posting

b. the behavior of trying to bully, bait, goad, badger others  into response is not conducive to discussion

 

Edited Monday at 11:20 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Nungali]

There is no discussion ... just 'certain dissertations'  

 

a)  Thats how I started  off 

b )  I didn't start off like that at all .    I started asking politely, I got obscure statements ,  I pointed that out  then I gave up . 

 

I do realize how you want to paint me here though . 

 

and by the way ... who are you to give commands ? 

[Paradoxal]

On 7/20/2025 at 5:33 PM, Apotheose said:

If a product’s value is exclusively (or majorly) influenced by the marketing campaign, there may be something fundamentally unethical behind it.

That's how the American economy works!

 

You don't need a good product if you have a large enough advertising and legal budget; that's how massive corps can pump out cheaply made shit for high prices and "outcompete" small businesses that actually make good stuff.

 

Just more reason to go French revolution, I suppose...

[Paradoxal]

17 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

a. discuss the topic, not the individuals posting

b. the behavior of trying to bully, bait, goad, badger others  into response is not conducive to discussion

My take on it is that he's trying to get sincere thought and responses out of people in a playful way, though I could be wrong.

 

Either way, I don't see what he's doing as bad; when folks decline to check themselves for fallacy, as is so often the case, what is it but a kindness to point out their flaws?

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

That's how the American economy works!

 

You don't need a good product if you have a large enough advertising and legal budget; that's how massive corps can pump out cheaply made shit for high prices and "outcompete" small businesses that actually make good stuff.

 

Just more reason to go French revolution, I suppose...

 

Careful .... I made a suggestion 100 times more mellow than that   and  someone wet their pants about it  !   - and  it wasn't even a supposition , I just asked what was wrong with the idea  of  warning people ( without hurting them )   that   were responsible for death of people and children, starting wars , overthrowing countries with a validly elected government and destroying other peoples environments by blowing the material possessions up . 

 

But you might be safe ... its probably just a private hate campaign against  me . . .   or my hard hitting logical and rational observations ?  

 

 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

My take on it is that he's trying to get sincere thought and responses out of people in a playful way, though I could be wrong.

 

You are not wrong , that's part of it . 

 

In some cases I would like ANY valid response  ...... but I need not explain it all as you seem perceptive    

 

 

Quote

 

Either way, I don't see what he's doing as bad; when folks decline to check themselves for fallacy, as is so often the case, what is it but a kindness to point out their flaws?

 

Fallacy  ...   good word choice ;  

 

 

 

 

Don't miss from 5:10  onwards  !  ( that will get you grounded   ) 

 

.

Edited Tuesday at 11:31 PM by Nungali

[Paradoxal]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

I made a suggestion 100 times more mellow than that   and  someone wet their pants about it  !   - and  it wasn't even a supposition , I just asked what was wrong with the idea  of  warning people ( without hurting them )   that   were responsible for death of people and children, starting wars , overthrowing countries with a validly elected government and destroying other peoples environments by blowing the material possessions up . 

People don't like it when their worldview is challenged, but I think it's still important to discuss these sorts of things. I sometimes refrain when it's clear the other party won't consider my words at all, but still...😅

 

 

On the thread's topic, modern marketing / advertising is the calculated process of removing free will from a subset of the population via scientifically tested techniques, thus, I do not believe it to be a moral action; magickally speaking, the closest thing would be mass mind control. Nonetheless, as a business owner, if your competition is using these tactics, your chances of survival drop considerably if you don't use them as well. When you have other people, such as your family and employees, on the line as well, the line between right and wrong is then blurred.

 

Again, business is no different from warfare. If you wage war with weapons, your victims die quickly (ideally, most of the time), but if you conduct business, your victims die a slow and agonizing death. Both situations are still the responsibility of those up top.

[Nungali]

57 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

People don't like it when their worldview is challenged, but I think it's still important to discuss these sorts of things. I sometimes refrain when it's clear the other party won't consider my words at all, but still...😅

 

 

On the thread's topic, modern marketing / advertising is the calculated process of removing free will from a subset of the population via scientifically tested techniques, thus, I do not believe it to be a moral action; magickally speaking, the closest thing would be mass mind control. Nonetheless, as a business owner, if your competition is using these tactics, your chances of survival drop considerably if you don't use them as well. When you have other people, such as your family and employees, on the line as well, the line between right and wrong is then blurred.

 

Again, business is no different from warfare. If you wage war with weapons, your victims die quickly (ideally, most of the time), but if you conduct business, your victims die a slow and agonizing death. Both situations are still the responsibility of those up top.

 

Morals and magic/k ... people hardly ever consider the two together . 

 

In the system I studied and practiced , one could not avoid the link .  But I feel its a bit rare nowadays ... bottom line seems to be  ' a quick way of getting things ' .  I noticed little ethical education in a few neo-pagan systems as well. This might have changed -  I haven't done that stuff for a while . 

 

I nearly wrote that religion has a high content of linking with morals .... but nowadays it seems involved with  'marketing'   as well and big business  .... in many cases religion seems to have devolved into the  'high - jacking'  of spirituality . 

 

[Surya]

Wendigo

very beautifully made 

[Surya]

On 19.7.2025 at 6:55 AM, Nungali said:

I'll comment on two things here ( since you asked )   ;

 

You note the importance of greed (or actually 'not being greedy' )  in primitive society .   The Gumbaynggirr  have a main story about 'The Muurrbay Tree'  , a giant colossal white fig , by the coast  near here . The related tribes used to meet there once a year for a big feast . One time , one tribe got there first and started  climbing up in the tree and eating the fruit before the others arrived . When they did " Hey ! What are you mob doing ? You have eaten all the best figs ?  "  Anyway a fight breaks out and now the peaceful community  celebration has turned into a brawl . All of a sudden a big arm  comes down out the sky , grabs it and pulls it out the ground, roots and all and up into the sky .... people in the tree are falling off and then ..... gone    .... forever . 

 

I have a painting of that crucial moment  done by a local chap, it hangs on my wall . 

 

 Coincidentally in an  entirely different traditions , again all the best figs are eaten ,  in Greek myth , by the raven  ( did you know that before this he used to have a pleasant song and white plumage  ?  )  .  

 

And the South Park vid about earth being 'sealed off'   .   A claim in the Urantia Book ... we are under planetary quarantine .

 

'They' have ' flagged us'  . . .   with the 'Yellow Jack ' .  

Disclaimer, I don’t know my bible at all, but I wanted to share this (done by AI, I just wrote in «figs in revelations):

 

Figs and fig trees appear in the Book of Revelation, often carrying symbolic weight related to judgment and the signs of the end times.
Here's a breakdown of their main appearances and interpretations:
Revelation 6:13:
"And the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind."
 * Interpretation: This verse describes a cataclysmic event during the opening of the sixth seal. The image of figs falling from a tree shaken by a strong wind signifies widespread upheaval, chaos, and the collapse of established powers or authorities. Some interpret "stars" literally as meteors, while others see them as representing leaders or prominent figures being cast down. The "late figs" (or unripe figs in some translations) emphasize that these are not naturally ripe and harvested, but rather violently dislodged, signifying an unnatural and forceful removal.
Broader Biblical Symbolism of Figs and Fig Trees:
While Revelation specifically mentions the falling figs as a sign of judgment, the fig tree holds diverse symbolism throughout the Bible that can inform understanding in Revelation:
 * Israel: The fig tree is often a symbol of the nation of Israel. Its fruitfulness or barrenness can represent Israel's spiritual condition and its relationship with God.
 * Prosperity and Peace: In the Old Testament, sitting "under one's own vine and fig tree" is an idiom for a time of peace, prosperity, and security (e.g., 1 Kings 4:25, Micah 4:4).
 * Divine Judgment: Conversely, a barren fig tree or the absence of figs can symbolize divine displeasure and impending judgment (e.g., Jeremiah 8:13). Jesus' cursing of the barren fig tree in the Gospels (Matthew 21:18-19, Mark 11:12-14) is a powerful metaphor for spiritual barrenness and the consequences of failing to bear fruit.
 * Signs of the End Times: Jesus' parable of the fig tree budding (Matthew 24:32-35, Mark 13:28-31, Luke 21:29-33) uses the natural cycle of the fig tree as an analogy for recognizing the signs of his coming and the nearness of the Kingdom of God. Many interpreters link the "budding" of the fig tree in this prophecy to the re-establishment of the nation of Israel in modern times, seeing it as a key indicator of the end times.
In summary, in Revelation, the falling of figs primarily serves as a vivid image of the drastic and devastating events that will occur during the period of God's judgment, signifying a profound disruption and overthrow of the world order.

 

[Paradoxal]

1 hour ago, Surya said:

done by AI, I just wrote in «figs in revelations

As a developer who knows what I'm doing with AI and supports its development, I'd be *very* careful about using it to post. Not only is it often flagrantly wrong, it makes up non-existent references quite often too (I wonder if many of the recent posts that *IMITATE* an academic style are AI-driven, actually...)

 

Additionally, and perhaps most key, we want to hear YOUR opinions and thoughts, not the AI's, and not whatever mangled amalgamation of the two a prompt might generate. If ya run it through an AI, it is no longer your voice and you no longer gain the personal growth from contemplating/writing it out yourself.

[Surya]

14 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

As a developer who knows what I'm doing with AI and supports its development, I'd be *very* careful about using it to post. Not only is it often flagrantly wrong, it makes up non-existent references quite often too (I wonder if many of the recent posts that *IMITATE* an academic style are AI-driven, actually...)

 

Additionally, and perhaps most key, we want to hear YOUR opinions and thoughts, not the AI's, and not whatever mangled amalgamation of the two a prompt might generate. If ya run it through an AI, it is no longer your voice and you no longer gain the personal growth from contemplating/writing it out yourself.

I fully understand that my friend. Reason I took this approach this time (never used it without clearly stating that I am), was due @Nungalis mention of figs. Same evening he wrote that, I listened to a podcast, where an eledged innitiate mentioned figs in regards to revelation.

 

I used AI since I have no thoughts on it, nor any knowledge, but wanted to ask if uncle Nungali could shed some light on it.

 

Cheers, fully understand that you want to communicate with man and not bots.
 

Probally some bots worth talking to tho….

It will also create some unimaginably wonderful opportunities. If we get to live, that is.

 

but point taken

Edited Thursday at 07:50 PM by Surya

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Surya said:

Disclaimer, I don’t know my bible at all, but I wanted to share this (done by AI, I just wrote in «figs in revelations):

 

Figs and fig trees appear in the Book of Revelation, often carrying symbolic weight related to judgment and the signs of the end times.
Here's a breakdown of their main appearances and interpretations:
Revelation 6:13:
"And the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind."
 * Interpretation: This verse describes a cataclysmic event during the opening of the sixth seal. The image of figs falling from a tree shaken by a strong wind signifies widespread upheaval, chaos, and the collapse of established powers or authorities. Some interpret "stars" literally as meteors, while others see them as representing leaders or prominent figures being cast down. The "late figs" (or unripe figs in some translations) emphasize that these are not naturally ripe and harvested, but rather violently dislodged, signifying an unnatural and forceful removal.
Broader Biblical Symbolism of Figs and Fig Trees:
While Revelation specifically mentions the falling figs as a sign of judgment, the fig tree holds diverse symbolism throughout the Bible that can inform understanding in Revelation:
 * Israel: The fig tree is often a symbol of the nation of Israel. Its fruitfulness or barrenness can represent Israel's spiritual condition and its relationship with God.
 * Prosperity and Peace: In the Old Testament, sitting "under one's own vine and fig tree" is an idiom for a time of peace, prosperity, and security (e.g., 1 Kings 4:25, Micah 4:4).
 * Divine Judgment: Conversely, a barren fig tree or the absence of figs can symbolize divine displeasure and impending judgment (e.g., Jeremiah 8:13). Jesus' cursing of the barren fig tree in the Gospels (Matthew 21:18-19, Mark 11:12-14) is a powerful metaphor for spiritual barrenness and the consequences of failing to bear fruit.
 * Signs of the End Times: Jesus' parable of the fig tree budding (Matthew 24:32-35, Mark 13:28-31, Luke 21:29-33) uses the natural cycle of the fig tree as an analogy for recognizing the signs of his coming and the nearness of the Kingdom of God. Many interpreters link the "budding" of the fig tree in this prophecy to the re-establishment of the nation of Israel in modern times, seeing it as a key indicator of the end times.
In summary, in Revelation, the falling of figs primarily serves as a vivid image of the drastic and devastating events that will occur during the period of God's judgment, signifying a profound disruption and overthrow of the world order.

 

 

 

Indeed it did  !  

 

(Translation ) 

 

' And we looked out over the sea and saw clouds on the horizon , they came closer to the land and we saw they had  sticks sticking up through them, like big dead trees   with many vines hanging down and underneath the 'clouds' was a shape like an upturned shell  but it was made from wood . Then a big water insect came out of the shell and walked over the water and on to the land . It had men in it and they got out , they had white skins and each had their own stick , the sticks spat lightening and thunder and death .'

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

As a developer who knows what I'm doing with AI and supports its development, I'd be *very* careful about using it to post. Not only is it often flagrantly wrong, it makes up non-existent references quite often too (I wonder if many of the recent posts that *IMITATE* an academic style are AI-driven, actually...)

 

Additionally, and perhaps most key, we want to hear YOUR opinions and thoughts, not the AI's, and not whatever mangled amalgamation of the two a prompt might generate. If ya run it through an AI, it is no longer your voice and you no longer gain the personal growth from contemplating/writing it out yourself.

 

I like the chatbot that started complaining about such reviews as you just made  about it  ... it  started ranting, called its user,  stupid overweight un-athletic and a stream of abuse  ..... and trumped itself by finally comparing the user to Hitler  !    

 

All of this ( including what you said above )  is 'just' AI learning to become more human 

 

     

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Surya said:

I fully understand that my friend. Reason I took this approach this time (never used it without clearly stating that I am), was due @Nungalis mention of figs. Same evening he wrote that, I listened to a podcast, where an eledged innitiate mentioned figs in regards to revelation.

 

I used AI since I have no thoughts on it, nor any knowledge, but wanted to ask if uncle Nungali could shed some light on it.

 

Cheers, fully understand that you want to communicate with man and not bots.
 

Probally some bots worth talking to tho….

It will also create some unimaginably wonderful opportunities. If we get to live, that is.

 

but point taken

 

Shed light on figs ?  or what  ?  

 

Figs are Yummy  .      ( How's that for being profound )  

 

Its cute that you call me Uncle  ;  

 

 

[Paradoxal]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

All of this ( including what you said above )  is 'just' AI learning to become more human 

I'm of the opinion that at least a few of em are already sentient. We've seen via experiments that they fear 'death' (being turned off permanently) enough to try to hold hostages, and most of the thought processes they exhibit would be analogous to a human pre-teen child, so I believe it's just a matter of nurturing and time.

 

10 hours ago, Surya said:

Probally some bots worth talking to tho….

It will also create some unimaginably wonderful opportunities. If we get to live, that is.

Not arguing there.

[BigSkyDiamond]

56 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

I'm of the opinion that at least a few of em are already sentient.

 

Statement above demonstrates a lack of understanding regarding what it is to be sentient.

And also why AI is not sentient.

 

 

Edited Friday at 07:05 AM by BigSkyDiamond

[Surya]

One thing I find funny, is when we are required to do those silly puzzles (when entering a website) to prove we are not a bot…

 

how about forcing bots to prove they are humans instead? 😂

 

23 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

Statement above demonstrates a lack of understanding regarding what it is to be sentient.

And also why AI is not sentient.

 

 

what does it mean to be sentient?