God interacting with humans.

[BigSkyDiamond]

 

thank you Lairg, it is always a treat to hear your insights on, well just about anything.

 

31 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

It looks like improper actions cause discomfort to the greater Entity/Logos within which soul-bearing species live. The discomfort results in a pressure on the relevant entity/group/planet to mend its ways.

 

Tradition indicates that the energy of karma is managed by "the recording angel", "the lipika lords". "the lords of karma".   In practice these entities operate at planetary, systemic, galactic levels etc.

 

Karma is like electricity, it follows lines of least resistance.   Thus as the human enters into the progressive stages of enlightenment, it is possible to request the Lords of Karma to move flows of group karma to other lines of least resistance.  With personal karma, the learning may have been achieved but the karmic energy is still in place.   Usually the Lords of Karma will remove such energy on request.

 

[Lairg]

I appreciate useful discussions

 

[Jadespear]

The lords of karma?  Sounds like the spirit beings of Saturn.  

 

Magic as low? Clearly you have a strange idea of what magic is... an actual "magician" is someone like Jesus or Buddha - who has the power to change another persons very destiny at will.  

 

Entities offering you things?  Seems like you've been targeted as a sucker.  

 

..."The way that can be followed is not the eternal way.  The name that can be named is not the eternal name."

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Jadespear said:

The lords of karma?  Sounds like the spirit beings of Saturn.  

 

Indeed !  "Karma' being used again as  a justification for all sorts of 'things' 

 

Its one thing to put it down here  .... that's bad enough . 

 

But  PLEASE   ' those that believe in THAT TYPE of karma BULLSHIT   .... please don't  suggest that a woman that gets raped by a policeman has some part  to play in it due to her 'past karma'  ... to anyone that has suffered that , or any  relative friend or even sympathetic person . 

 

Its rather revolting  .  Its even more revolting than   insisting someone should not 'be negative '  or critical of anyone's beliefs and projections here . 

 

 

.

Edited Monday at 05:05 AM by Nungali

[BigSkyDiamond]

9 hours ago, Jadespear said:

The lords of karma?  Sounds like the spirit beings of Saturn.  

Magic as low? Clearly you have a strange idea of what magic is... an actual "magician" is someone like Jesus or Buddha - who has the power to change another persons very destiny at will.  

 

Divinity and magic are not the same.  They differ in mindset, intention, that which is accessed, and that which is attracted.

when i read "low" my understanding is that it may be referring to vibration or resonance.  

that might make an interesting thread topic, to provide further clarification on how magic and Divinity are not the same.  

 

just as there is a difference between God and gods, there is a difference between Divinity (God) and magic, between prayer and casting spells.

 

Edited Monday at 08:05 AM by BigSkyDiamond

[Surya]

7 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

when i read "low" my understanding is that it may be referring to vibration or resonance.  

that might make an interesting thread topic, to provide further clarification on how magic and Divinity are not the same.  

Second that : )

[Surya]

On 12.6.2025 at 5:21 AM, BigSkyDiamond said:

i love how one teacher describes it.*  When the game of chess was invented with its rules, instantly every possible chess game was also created and "exists" based on the rules of chess.  So when someone is playing a chess game, no matter what moves they make, no matter how brilliant they are, that chess game already exists. 

 

Same thing for the universe and everything in it.  When the universe and everything in it was created, instantly every possible scenario simultaneously also came into existence.  So no matter what lifetime or life form or timeline we visit, it already exists.  It is very alluring and yes we have free will to stay as long as we want and play out as many of those scenarios that entice us.

 

we also have free will to leave.  because no matter how much someone loves playing chess or is entieced by the adventures of the universe we have free will to say enough is enough and exit. They get tired of chess and say get me out of here.

 

* [The teacher is Joachim Wolffram, five very slim paperback books in the series Althar the Crystal Dragon]

When I was a child, I loved chess, right. So much so that I at times attemptet to play with myself when there was nobody around: that is, play both side of the table, both black and white. Needless to say, didnt work that well. So in order to play this beautifull game of ours, some seperation is needed, it seems.

[Jadespear]

On 6/16/2025 at 2:43 AM, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

Divinity and magic are not the same.  They differ in mindset, intention, that which is accessed, and that which is attracted.

when i read "low" my understanding is that it may be referring to vibration or resonance.  

that might make an interesting thread topic, to provide further clarification on how magic and Divinity are not the same.  

 

just as there is a difference between God and gods, there is a difference between Divinity (God) and magic, between prayer and casting spells.

 

 

Ok, well then I suppose your just left at semantics.  What exactly is "divinity" then?  Magic is widely regarded as the application of understanding of the laws that exist from divinity (whatever you want to call it).  Otherwise known as the difference between "being" (divinity) and "becoming" (magic).  

[BigSkyDiamond]

1 hour ago, Jadespear said:

 

Ok, well then I suppose your just left at semantics.  What exactly is "divinity" then?  Magic is widely regarded as the application of understanding of the laws that exist from divinity (whatever you want to call it).  Otherwise known as the difference between "being" (divinity) and "becoming" (magic).  

 

no it is not just semantics.  and no it is not just another word for the same thing.  That would make for a good thread topic, for those who seek to (a) clarify explore understand the difference between magic and divinity, and (b) differentiate between them.  just like there is a difference between big G "God" and little g "gods."

 

It would be interesting to hear from many who may be on a variety of paths, regarding their own frames of reference.  My understanding (frame of reference) is that magic is not a path to divinity.  Rather it is an obstacle, barrier, impediment.  Since this thread topic is "God interacting with humans" a different thread might prevent it from going too far off topic.  On the other hand, anyone whose path includes God, then those views on magic are relevant to the topic.  As it relates to "God interacting with humans"

 

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[Cobie]

 

 

On 16/06/2025 at 5:24 PM, Surya said:

… chess … in order to play this beautifull game of ours, some seperation is needed, it seems.

Exactly. And so imo it is also for the ‘game of life’. That’s why Wuji (無極 the origin, undifferentiated state) goes to Taiji (太極 existence, the state of differentiation/Yin and Yang [also “black and white” ].

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

27 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

… It would be interesting to hear from many who may be on a variety of paths, regarding their own frames of reference. …

I think ‘magic’ thinks it can control, which imo is an illusion. My way (RC) is surrender to the divine. 
 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Cobie

[BigSkyDiamond]

On 6/15/2025 at 3:31 PM, Jadespear said:

Clearly you have a strange idea of what magic is... an actual "magician" is someone like Jesus or Buddha - who has the power to change another persons very destiny at will.  

 

i would be interested to hear from practitioners in those paths mentioned (bold above) regarding the view that Jesus and Buddha are "magicians."  My understanding is that while psychic abilities may  (and often do) develop as a byproduct of this or that path, they are a byproduct and not the destination.   Whereas in magic, the "psychic power" (or "supernatural" power) to control and manipulate IS the goal and destination .  

 

I had it explained to me this way some time ago:  The development of psychic powers is not considered the primary goal but rather a by-product of the spiritual journey toward Nirvana. The Buddha cautioned against becoming attached to or seeking out these powers, as they can be a distraction from the ultimate goal of spiritual liberation.

 

Edited 11 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[BigSkyDiamond]

One of my favorite teachings (i love the stories of the sages) is the sage who even while young performed miracles, however the teaching of our tradition (then and now) is to NOT publicize these.  So when miracles occurred around him, he would erase the memory from any bystanders who happened to see the miracles.    They are not publicized because it sends the wrong message, and that is not the goal or destination, and it can lead people astray  (i.e. trying to develop the powers, putting an individual person on a pedestal, the opposite of humble) and detract from the message of relationship with God.  Relationship with God (in many traditions) is the goal and  message,  not parlor tricks.   

 

 

[Cobie]

 

31 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

I would be interested to hear from practitioners … regarding the view that Jesus … are "magicians." …

For RC, Jesus definitely is not a magician and psychic powers is not what it’s about.

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Cobie

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

I think ‘magic’ thinks it can control, which imo is an illusion. My way (RC) is surrender to the divine. 
 

 

 

A LOT of magic is said to work by the operator FIRST surrendering to the divine  ... especially the medieval versions .  The 'control' was about  directing the forces of nature ... not directing or controlling divinity . 

 

You direct the forces of nature according to your will every time you put up an umbrella and divert the rain away from yourself .  Or turn on the tap to get a drink  , or   when you go out for your weekend   windsuit flying .... 

 

Go Coby !  

 

 

 

You don't have to stay wet to surrender to  the divine    

[BigSkyDiamond]

45 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

A LOT of magic is said to work by the operator FIRST surrendering to the divine  ... especially the medieval versions .  The 'control' was about  directing the forces of nature ... not directing or controlling divinity .   You direct the forces of nature according to your will every time you put up an umbrella and divert the rain away from yourself .  Or turn on the tap to get a drink  , or   when you go out for your weekend   windsuit flying .... You don't have to stay wet to surrender to  the divine   

 

i have never heard anywhere (until this post) that turning on a faucet or using an umbrella are "magic."  I have always considered them as simple mechanical devices.  And the fatality rate for wingsuit jumpers is one in 500.  However, if that is a person's frame of reference for magic, then so be it.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[Nungali]

2 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

i have never heard anywhere (until this post) that turning on a faucet or using an umbrella are "magic." 

 

No ?  You should  expand  your  sources on the subject then . 

 

A VERY basic and well known one is   " Magic is just undiscovered science ' . 

 

But you may have never heard of that before   either ? 

 

2 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

They are simple mechanical devices.

 

They were also examples regarding the contextual point Cobie made about 'control' and 'surrender'  -  I made it simple for people that might have trouble with more complex examples ... but it seems , even at this level, its causing 'complexity' problems .   

 

Magic / simple mechanical devices ....  That depends on the state of the observer  ; 'undiscovered science ' to them , seems magic . 

 

Let's 'amp up' the complexity then   - an electrical generator  and what it can produce . You would have to get the basics of magnetism down first .  There is a good video out about it by the world's leading expert ... he starts off ; " Magnetism , what is it ?  We don't really know  ....  "        

 

2 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

  And the fatality rate for wingsuit jumpers is one in 500.  

 

and  that is supposed to indicate   ......      ?  

[BigSkyDiamond]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

No ?  You should  expand  your  sources on the subject then .  A VERY basic and well known one is   " Magic is just undiscovered science ' . But you may have never heard of that before   either ? They were also examples regarding the contextual point Cobie made about 'control' and 'surrender'  -  I made it simple for people that might have trouble with more complex examples ... but it seems , even at this level, its causing 'complexity' problems .   

Magic / simple mechanical devices ....  That depends on the state of the observer  ; 'undiscovered science ' to them , seems magic . Let's 'amp up' the complexity then   - an electrical generator  and what it can produce . You would have to get the basics of magnetism down first .  There is a good video out about it by the world's leading expert ... he starts off ; " Magnetism , what is it ?  We don't really know  ....  "      

 

I don't conflate "magic" with "science." 

I also don't consider magnetism to be "magic."

 

However I do agree that it most definitely is dependent on the individual frame of reference that a person holds, their belief system.  

 

Edited 6 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond