Where are the High Level Martial Artists/Fighters at?

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

Agreed, but on the flip side, I'd say that it's very important for a martial artist to know when they've had this mercy given.

 

One of the places I practice usually ends the night with a "playful" randoori, where we are explicitly told not to injure and to "gracefully lose". Basically, know when it's time to back off and don't injure or get injured. 

 

A running issue there is that people don't realize that something could have knocked out or killed them *because* of holding back... lots of shots to the neck, throat, back of the head, ears, etc. that people just disregard because they've never felt what it actually does when force it put into it.

 

 

I didn't mind loosing at all at times ..... one needs to  learn what works  ..... and what doesn't work . 

[Paradoxal]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

Even worse ...   ( but hit got better    )    Avi ... a training partner  ; after a while I was frustrated with his 'delicacy'  . 

I'm guilty of this actually...

A lot of the guys I practice with here in Japan don't do body or fist conditioning (and I give them shit for it), but that means that me giving as little power as possible still causes them a decent amount of pain; I had a guy who runs his own dojo tell me he thought I was going to break his fingers when I literally just grabbed them, no locks or anything. 

So I've gotten in the habit of just not putting any power in my shots lately to prevent injury, but one guy I spar with does the opposite. Out of habit, I only lightly tag him, but he goes 70% with me (and I should be doing that to him as well), which never ends well for me. At least it shows me where I can improve, though! 

[Nungali]

Its very important for self defense . No matter how much training you do , if people have been 'allowing'  your technique in practice ... it might not work in a real situation .  

 

Especially so  in  defense against weapons , like a knife .  Yeah, do this, do that, move here and there , it's all 'interesting dynamics' in training .  In a real situation ..... grab a chair or something similar   you can put between you and the knife . 

 

That was the worst  thing my past 'instructor' would do   ( I had to get out of there , he was really crap at some stuff and taught people crazy and dangerous stuff 'theory '  that never got tested  ..... until I came along .  Thank goodness for him we only ever trained with a rubber or wooden knife  !   He eventually  dropped a few of his taught techniques  after those lessons . 

 

-  a 'knife guy' will not thrust and leave his arm out there after you 'block' it and wait for the rest of some fancy technique .  he will instantly draw the thrust back and slice your arm open with the  blade on the way back 

 

besides , how ya gonna 'block '  this  :  . 

 

 

 

[Sanity Check]

Do martial artists train athleticism?
 

What are good strength and cardio conditioning methods for martial arts?

[Master Logray]

14 hours ago, Nungali said:

Its very important for self defense . No matter how much training you do , if people have been 'allowing'  your technique in practice ... it might not work in a real situation .  

 

Especially so  in  defense against weapons , like a knife .  Yeah, do this, do that, move here and there , it's all 'interesting dynamics' in training .  In a real situation ..... grab a chair or something similar   you can put between you and the knife . 

 

That was the worst  thing my past 'instructor' would do   ( I had to get out of there , he was really crap at some stuff and taught people crazy and dangerous stuff 'theory '  that never got tested  ..... until I came along .  Thank goodness for him we only ever trained with a rubber or wooden knife  !   He eventually  dropped a few of his taught techniques  after those lessons . 

 

-  a 'knife guy' will not thrust and leave his arm out there after you 'block' it and wait for the rest of some fancy technique .  he will instantly draw the thrust back and slice your arm open with the  blade on the way back 

 

besides , how ya gonna 'block '  this  :  . 

 

 

 

 

In real life situation, there could be no lights, loud noise, glass on the floor, a few against one, bystander who may or may not be enemy, everything that can be thrown at you .... in addition to knives.   Most martial arts cannot handle such and never trained for such.   And theoretically, the use of the term self defense is to avoid trouble.  In real life, the only chance to survive could be full scale surprise attack first.   But one may have to end up in jail.  So those trainings are useful but not justified to your whole life in perfecting them.   

 

 

[Paradoxal]

6 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

Do martial artists train athleticism?

Any martial artist worth a damn does. Technically speaking, technique can allow you to outfight someone physically superior, but you're gonna want any edge you can get in a fight and technique alone will only take ya so far.

 

6 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

What are good strength and cardio conditioning methods for martial arts?

Depends on the primary strategy you use, your bodytype, your age, your gender, and a number of other factors. 

 

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

In real life situation, there could be no lights, loud noise, glass on the floor, a few against one, bystander who may or may not be enemy, everything that can be thrown at you .... in addition to knives

The way I was taught is to assume whoever you're fighting is more skilled than you, armed to the teeth, and willing to die to take you down.

Naturally, that usually isn't the case, but if you assume they have knives and/or guns then that changes how you train and how you fight.

 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

In real life situation, there could be no lights, loud noise, glass on the floor, a few against one, bystander who may or may not be enemy, everything that can be thrown at you .... in addition to knives.   Most martial arts cannot handle such and never trained for such. 

 

True... for ' most ' ... but I taught them . 

 

one example ; my garden hose was coiled over our grass training area at my place , one of the guys offered to move it before we began ; "No, leave it there . "  Also training outdoors is a BIG difference .

 

But even then one should 'mix it up'   .   the Saturday class was in town by the river . Once I got them to go through a pattern NOT facing the river ( which was usual ) and some  got mixed up and confused !   An interesting lesson .  

 

My secret weapon   

Spoiler

'front door security '  ; 

 

I have a few 'pet' birds that are used to being fed , they usually hang out in the trees above the door , they have become experrts at swoop and catch mid air , to the point that they will swoop and  go in the direction I move my hand and point . 

 

I did to towards a head of an  annoying person at the door once  ... they panicked, which made the birds panic, they ran  with the birds fluttering around them  .... plus the benefit of being 'spooked' as well  ... they won't be back !  

 

 

7 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

 

 And theoretically, the use of the term self defense is to avoid trouble.  In real life, the only chance to survive could be full scale surprise attack first.   But one may have to end up in jail.  So those trainings are useful but not justified to your whole life in perfecting them.   

 

 

 

No one thing is so justifiable .

[Sanity Check]

Does body armor have a place in martial arts in the modern world?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

You must have typed something into your search engine to get those pictures , so I am wondering why the question ?  You could have just typed the question  in and got a whole page of images of martial arts armor , for sale, in use during competition ,  in reviews . . . 

 

 

 

 

[Sanity Check]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

You must have typed something into your search engine to get those pictures , so I am wondering why the question ?  You could have just typed the question  in and got a whole page of images of martial arts armor , for sale, in use during competition ,  in reviews . . . 

 

 

 

Not search engine.

 

Amazon searching for body armor.

 

There are so many knife attacks in places like the UK. I wondered if chain mail would be a good option for daily wear. If it could be worn underneath normal clothing comfortably.

 

If daily body armor wear became standard. Why not wear other types of body armor. 

 

Maybe if the apocalypse happens, we'll all be wearing some type of body armor. To protect against wild dogs if nothing else.

Edited Wednesday at 06:31 AM by Sanity Check

[Nungali]

Chain mail ... a good option for daily wear ? ? ? 

 

 

are you being deliberately silly again ? Have you ever worn it ? Its heavy !  

 

Haven't you heard of kevlar   ??? 

 

 

Amazon.com: Cut Resistant T-Shirt, Knife Proof Shirt Clothing, 5-Level Protective Anti-Cutting Protective

 

[Master Logray]

Anything vs dogs?

[Nungali]

[Nungali]

We got lots of wild dogs here . Sometimes I hear them across the river at night in the forest .  One  crossed over the other night and nabbed a neighbors chicken ... that must have been a rare treat ! 

 

No other trouble though . 

 

 

 

[Sanity Check]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

Chain mail ... a good option for daily wear ? ? ? 

 

 

are you being deliberately silly again ? Have you ever worn it ? Its heavy !  

 

Haven't you heard of kevlar   ??? 

 

 

Amazon.com: Cut Resistant T-Shirt, Knife Proof Shirt Clothing, 5-Level Protective Anti-Cutting Protective

 

 

 

Item description says: 30 - 35 pounds.

 

Heavier than I thought.

 

Its what mercenaries and warriors of past eras wore as standard fare.

 

Modern day soldiers carry 70 pounds of gear not including their rifle.

 

A good .50 caliber sniper rifle weighs near to 50 pounds by itself.

 

Hmm. Cut resistance and kevlar are good ideas.

 

But I think that item you listed is cut resistant only, not stab resistant.

[Sanity Check]

3 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Anything vs dogs?

 

 

 

 

Cattle prod

 

 

 

 

Bear pepper spray 

Edited Wednesday at 11:00 AM by Sanity Check

[Master Logray]

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

 

Cattle prod

 

 

 

 

Bear pepper spray 

 

They seem useful.  I searched, there are gadgets using sound waves to ward off wild dogs.  Would they be useful?

[Nungali]

Doggies  !

 

 

- I was a postman for a few years .  Ya gotta learn all the tricks  !    The above stuff wasn't required . 

[Paradoxal]

On 7/8/2025 at 3:46 PM, Sanity Check said:

Does body armor have a place in martial arts in the modern world?

Nothing like what you've linked. 

 

I have worn different types of medieval armor in the past (mainly lamellar, as my armor is made of, but also some chainmail and some plates), and yes, the weight is an issue. 

 

The bigger issue imo is concealing it. If you go around wearing visible armor all the time, at the best you'll be ostracized and at worst accused of terrorist activity. Where I lived in America, it was a very real danger of some triggerhappy wannabe hero just shooting you when he thought you looked threatening. 

 

Thus, you'd need something that can be disguised as normal clothes and preferably, something bullet resistant. 

 

A quick Google search brought up the following sites, but I cannot speak for the usability or reliability of either of them:

https://bulletproofzone.com/

https://garrisonbespoke.com/custom-suits/bespoke-bulletproof-suits

 

These are expensive and very likely both unstylish and uncomfortable, as they are not made with those purposes in mind. 

 

A more viable option imo, would be knife resistant sleeves (similar to what Nungali linked), but even that might get you some side eye depending on how it looks, and it certainly will not be comfortable to wear every day. 

 

In the end, for both weapons and animals, the best option is to maintain an intelligent training program every day and to know your enemy. 

For example, if a dog bites your arm, the move is the push your arm further into its mouth to lock its jaw down. Would you try to do this for a snakebite? (No!!)

You gotta know what the characteristics of the weapons and animals you're likely to face are in order to intelligently defend yourself, and oftentimes the smartest defense is to recognize: "Hey, I shouldn't be here..." and to get out before it becomes physical.

 

[Nungali]

My GOD !  Someone put me onto a video suggesting I might like it .  Like it !?  

 

I love it ! .. and  I feel vindicated !   I got so sick of the lame martial arts I was associated with and people telling me what I did was wrong or somehow incorrect  ..... " But the other guy is on the ground !  "    

 

- Well, not wholly true , it was mostly 'instructors' that complained . Some students actually came and trained with me on the side .  I didn't negate their training ... what I taught them  helped develop what they were trained in . 

 

Here is the vid  

 

 

 

 

I wowed just after the beginning  ... not because she is a woman but because of what she said and did !

 

If she wasn't so awesome I would suspect I had a doppelganger  .... she declared  my central strategy ; to mix and add all the things I learned but application depends on what they other does .... what they 'offer to you ' .

The foot control and placement ( pinning down theor feet with yours ) , simply walking through (with a knee to the head  on the way ) subtle use of elbows (including a 'back hand' elbow strike ) , hand on shoulder or side of head - finger or thumb reaches around to target eye , 

 

and especially striking the inside forearm nerves when they strike , ( but she does it from the outside ) ,  enter 'arm tangle' take down , switching inside to outside , 'spreading their stance' with a foot sweep, 'flow from one thing to another ' ( a LOT easier if you do actually respond to what they are doing , the 'shape' they make, how they fall ... taking advantage of what is 'right in front of you '   *  . Also her stance and delivery .... its something I battled for years ; " You look 'sloppy' you are just standing there doing stuff ! " True ... but other dude is on the ground ! Why ? because they held their 'perfect rigid form' and couldn't adapt what they supposedly;y had learnt to a new situation .

 

* 
 

Spoiler

eg   Once, the 'instructor' was showing others , using me, some technique ... it was rubbish ! It didnt work , he wanted me 'down there ' but I wasn't going  so he tried to force me down .  After a second of stupid struggling and him still trying to force it I was "Okay you want me down there , I will go down there and bend over .... and look what I found down there , hos leg and foot is right in front of my face ... so I grabbed his foot and lifted .  His reaction was to try and pull his foot away . Which he did by lifting it first .  Really ?  You try to resist a lift by using your strongest muscles to lift you leg in the same direction as I am going to ?   Wheeeee... off he went through the air, after I gave it a little toss at the end .    Later someone asked about it  so I got them to lift my foot .  I immediately lifted the OTHER foot , putting my whole body weight against their direction of lift. Now my other foot up, their head down there .... so I stomped on their head (softly ) .  Its always been a mystery as   what I consider bleedin' obvious .... others " How did you come up with that move ? ''  Answer ;  " You 'gave it to me' .  

I find this lacking in a few . I would do something considered radical , with , a weapon and people would ask 'where did THAT come from !? I would say , for example ; " Gojushiho form move 14 " ... but that is an empty hand form ! they would protest .

Adapt guys ! Adapt !
 !

I never seen any one that close to my own individual style, adaptions and philosophies .
Except I don't use a 'soft weapon' (scarf of similar ) .

- Look at his face at 10:40 

 

'' He might also have a weapon. ' ' again ! Indeed ! I just assume he has and hasn't showed it yet . And also exactly what I say now ; " I cant run fast anymore ( no run away option ) so I do what I can - to survive ." ( I also assume he has mates hiding watching and waiting nearby ) AND using the environment around you whatever it is ( " That was a Volkswagen I just shoved your head into ." ) .

The main difference between myself and her is her awesome level of skill ..... I'm not near that .

She had Dan Inasanto as a teacher ! ..... someone I always emulated and agreed with ( I got his first comprehensive book with a personally signed inner front page .)

her cred :

• Sifu / Guro LaVonne Martin has been in martial arts for 47 years training with some of the top instructors around the world. She is one of a handful of women to attain FULL INSTRUCTORSHIP in Jun Fan /Jeet Kune Do and the Filipino Martial Arts under Dan Inosanto, the late Bruce Lee protégé.

Her current credentials include:

• Full Instructorship in Bruce Lee’s Jun Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do
• Instructor Level 1 Maphalindo Silat
• Senior Full Instructor in Wing Chun Kung Fu under Sifu Francis Fong in Atlanta.
• Associate Instructor under Ajarn Chai Sirisute in Muay Thai Thai Boxing.
• Black Belt in CS_Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Under Sensei Erik Paulson
• Coach Level 1 in Combat Submission Wrestling – Erik Paulson
• She has studied several different types of Pencak Silat including Mande Muda with the late Pak Herman Suwanda and Serek with Pak Victor DeThouras.
• Full Instructor in Filipino Martial Arts of Kali / Silat

Sifu Martin attained rank in the following arts:

• 3rd Dan Shuri Ryu Karate
• 5th Dan Shintoyoshin Jiu Jitsu
• 2nd Dan Tae Kwon Do
• Brown Belt Kempo Jiu Jutsu'. 

 

 

Edited Friday at 07:08 AM by Nungali

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

Nothing like what you've linked. 

 

I have worn different types of medieval armor in the past (mainly lamellar, as my armor is made of, but also some chainmail and some plates), and yes, the weight is an issue. 

 

The bigger issue imo is concealing it. If you go around wearing visible armor all the time, at the best you'll be ostracized and at worst accused of terrorist activity. Where I lived in America, it was a very real danger of some triggerhappy wannabe hero just shooting you when he thought you looked threatening. 

 

Thus, you'd need something that can be disguised as normal clothes and preferably, something bullet resistant. 

 

Yes, depending on where you live ;

 

I was watching soccer years back, a game somewhere in Sth America . One commentator commented on the referee '  The Referee looks a little unfit and exhausted , he is having trouble keeping up with the players ."  The other (local) commentator ; " Ummmmmm .....  that's because he is wearing a bullet proof vest . " 

 

 

They got some   very 'enthusiastic team loyalists '  down that way !  

 

Quote

 

A quick Google search brought up the following sites, but I cannot speak for the usability or reliability of either of them:

https://bulletproofzone.com/

https://garrisonbespoke.com/custom-suits/bespoke-bulletproof-suits

 

These are expensive and very likely both unstylish and uncomfortable, as they are not made with those purposes in mind. 

 

A more viable option imo, would be knife resistant sleeves (similar to what Nungali linked), but even that might get you some side eye depending on how it looks, and it certainly will not be comfortable to wear every day. 

 

In the end, for both weapons and animals, the best option is to maintain an intelligent training program every day and to know your enemy. 

For example, if a dog bites your arm, the move is the push your arm further into its mouth to lock its jaw down. Would you try to do this for a snakebite? (No!!)

 

Unless its a  diamond python  !       Due to the angle of their teeth .  

 

Quote

You gotta know what the characteristics of the weapons and animals you're likely to face are in order to intelligently defend yourself, and oftentimes the smartest defense is to recognize: "Hey, I shouldn't be here..." and to get out before it becomes physical.

 

 

Edited Friday at 07:09 AM by Nungali