Soul in Buddhism

[Tommy]

12 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

Can the heart watch thoughts?

Does your heart have awareness? What is the function of the heart? It pushes blood thru out the body so the body can have oxygen to process a living function. Are you aware of the actions the heart makes thru out the day? Can the heart remember the events of the day? I am sorry but I do not understand the question. When you say heart, what are you referring to? The muscle in your chest?

[Lairg]

When we say a person is "good hearted" or "open hearted" or "hard hearted" we are not referring to the physical heart.

 

We are referring to a spiritual relationship

[Cobie]

 

 

11 hours ago, Haribol said:

…  the very excistence of thoughts confuse me a bit. … Who is talking to who …

We have two brain halves.

 

11 hours ago, Haribol said:

why would I need to tell myself anything? …

It takes 2 vantage points to create perspective.

 

11 hours ago, Haribol said:

and am I the thinker or the one that listen to the thoughts, or both?

 

Neither. You are the soul that oversees the two brain halves.

 

 

[Tommy]

5 hours ago, Lairg said:

When we say a person is "good hearted" or "open hearted" or "hard hearted" we are not referring to the physical heart.

 

We are referring to a spiritual relationship

So, this spiritual relationship, does it have a memory? Does it have eyes? Does it feel? Can it sense whatever you sense? If it can do this then it can watch thoughts. But, to me, I have yet to find this spiritual relationship. Where does it sit? Does it reside in the heart? Or does it reside in the brain? Or is this open hearted and good hearted stuff just an attribute of this ego or personality?

 

[Lairg]

54 minutes ago, Tommy said:

I have yet to find this spiritual relationship. Where does it sit? Does it reside in the heart?

 

As you know men are strongly physical and mental while females are strongly emotional and potentially heart-centered.

 

Generally men need to get their thoughts under partial control before they have much access to heart processes.

 

Technically:  there is a vertical stream of Light that produces consciousness in the brain and generates life force and spiritual purpose in the heart.

 

The anchoring of that stream in the heart is shown in Roman Catholic depictions as a flame.  It occurs in all standard format humans.

 

There can be many interferences with that vertical flow of Light.

 

 

[Tommy]

23 minutes ago, Lairg said:

Technically:  there is a vertical stream of Light that produces consciousness in the brain and generates life force and spiritual purpose in the heart.

 

The anchoring of that stream in the heart is shown in Roman Catholic depictions as a flame.  It occurs in all standard format humans.

 

There can be many interferences with that vertical flow of Light.

Sorry, I have never had that experience of seeing a vertical stream of light. Supposedly it produces consciousness in the brain and generates life force and spiritual purpose in the heart. I do not believe it is a phenomenon which is commonly experienced. Sorry, you have lost me.

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

 I do not believe it is a phenomenon which is commonly experienced.

 

As far as I remember everyone that I asked to  look for that Light could see it.

 

Inner sight requires accumulation of the relevant energy-substance and formulating that into a sense organ.  Visualization practices are important in developing that skill.

[justjoseph]

.

Edited February 10 by justjoseph

[Tommy]

9 hours ago, Lairg said:

As far as I remember everyone that I asked to  look for that Light could see it.

 

Inner sight requires accumulation of the relevant energy-substance and formulating that into a sense organ.  Visualization practices are important in developing that skill.

Sounds you live inside a cult of some kind. Everyone can see the same vertical white light. Guess you must have asked quite a few people. It must be nice to get that kind of validation.

 

Skipped the light Fandango. Turn the cartwheel 'cross the floor. I was feeling kinda seasick. The crowd called out for more. The room was humming harder. As the ceiling flew away. When we called out for another drink, the waiter brought a tray. And so it was that later, As the miller told his tale. That her face at first just ghostly, Turned a whiter shade of pale, She said there is no reason, And the truth is plain to see. That I wandered thru my playing cards. And would not let her be. One of sixteen vestal virgins. Who were leaving for the coast. And although my eyes were open, they might have well have been closed.

Edited February 10 by Tommy

[Cobie]

 

 

9 hours ago, Tommy said:

… Fandango …

Fandango

Edited February 10 by Cobie

[Lairg]

8 hours ago, Tommy said:

 Everyone can see the same vertical white light

 

No cult - just a suburban context.  Often there are external interferences in the flow - and I show the individuals how to deal with them.  And I watch their process. 

 

Removal of the interferences results in the people cheering up, standing straighter and looking brighter.

 

 

Edited February 10 by Lairg

[Lairg]

8 hours ago, Tommy said:

although my eyes were open, they might have well have been closed.

 

Usually the sense of inner touch is developed before inner sight.  Thus most humans feel energies long before they can see them

Edited February 10 by Lairg

[Tommy]

9 hours ago, Cobie said:

Fandango

Skip it. A lighter shade of pale.

Edited February 11 by Tommy

[Gerard]

Not sure if I replied on this thread before but this is my take which clearly conflicts with the Buddhist view on the soul:

 

If there is no eternal soul then this reality wouldn't exist in the first place.

 

I firmly believe Buddha missed the mark here. No self doesn't equate to no consciousness because without one you and the entire reality you created wouldn't come to exist.

 

So I'm aligned with the Hindu & Taoist view in that regard even the latter doesn't touch subject directly.

 

Then nirvana also is a failed model since from my perspective nirvana only entails the end of the journeying, not the end of everything. Existence keeps on going for eternity for all of us beyond nirvana.

 

 

 

[justjoseph]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

Not sure if I replied on this thread before but this is my take which clearly conflicts with the Buddhist view on the soul:

 

If there is no eternal soul then this reality wouldn't exist in the first place.

 

I firmly believe Buddha missed the mark here. No self doesn't equate to no consciousness because without one you and the entire reality you created wouldn't come to exist.

 

So I'm aligned with the Hindu & Taoist view in that regard even the latter doesn't touch subject directly.

 

Then nirvana also is a failed model since from my perspective nirvana only entails the end of the journeying, not the end of everything. Existence keeps on going for eternity for all of us beyond nirvana.

 

 

 

Imagine saying the man with no dust in his eyes, a teacher of gods and men, a perfected one with perfect wisdom would have "missed the mark" and that you, an unperfected one, a man with much dust in his eyes is able to discern something he was not. The level of arrogance this comment shows. 

What attainment have you reached in your vipassana training ? Arahantship ? surely it must be the highest level to think you know better than the perfected one.

[Tommy]

6 hours ago, Gerard said:

Not sure if I replied on this thread before but this is my take which clearly conflicts with the Buddhist view on the soul:

 

If there is no eternal soul then this reality wouldn't exist in the first place.

 

I firmly believe Buddha missed the mark here. No self doesn't equate to no consciousness because without one you and the entire reality you created wouldn't come to exist.

 

So I'm aligned with the Hindu & Taoist view in that regard even the latter doesn't touch subject directly.

 

Then nirvana also is a failed model since from my perspective nirvana only entails the end of the journeying, not the end of everything. Existence keeps on going for eternity for all of us beyond nirvana.

I believe there is a misunderstanding here about what the Buddha taught. The Buddha taught that there is no self as one believes themselves to be. As the Buddha found that one is an aggregate of things which believes itself to be a real self. Much like a car, if you take the pieces apart, there is no one piece that says that is the car. So, in relation to a self which one believes one to be, there is no piece inside one to be called the self.

 

Buddha never said there is a soul nor did he say there is no soul. But that there is something eternal about one. That is what goes on to rebirth. Not reincarnation. Often one believes that something of the self survives rebirth and those are the clues to show there is rebirth or reincarnation. Those are the only markers that one knows to look for. However, it is only the remnant energy. What is reborn can not be seen by ordinary eyes.

 

You might call it a spirit or soul. Believe what you must so you can sleep at night. It changes nothing. Only when one has experienced their true nature will they begin to learn. Okay, this is what I believe. But, I could be wrong. I always leave space for being wrong. That way, I can always learn. 

Edited Monday at 04:12 PM by Tommy

[Tommy]

4 hours ago, justjoseph said:

Imagine saying the man with no dust in his eyes, a teacher of gods and men, a perfected one with perfect wisdom would have "missed the mark" and that you, an unperfected one, a man with much dust in his eyes is able to discern something he was not. The level of arrogance this comment shows. 

What attainment have you reached in your vipassana training ? Arahantship ? surely it must be the highest level to think you know better than the perfected one.

Sorry for my comments here. Does beating down a man, better than lifting them out of ignorance? And yes, I do have dust in my eyes. But, I also have love and empathy in my heart. Again sorry for my comments here.

[Gerard]

10 hours ago, justjoseph said:

Imagine saying the man with no dust in his eyes, a teacher of gods and men, a perfected one with perfect wisdom would have "missed the mark" and that you, an unperfected one, a man with much dust in his eyes is able to discern something he was not. The level of arrogance this comment shows. 

What attainment have you reached in your vipassana training ? Arahantship ? surely it must be the highest level to think you know better than the perfected one.

Arrogance?

 

Sorry but religious talk doesn't work with me.

 

Buddhism is flawed simply because:

 

It doesn't admit/regulate/acknowledge the universal law of the Yin/Yang.

 

Vipassana is probably the worst method today to reach the highest level. It can't go past deep blockages. 
 

 

 

 

[Cobie]

 

20 minutes ago, Gerard said:

… the universal law of the Yin/Yang.

This too is “religious talk”, just another tradition.

 

 

[Krenx]

2 hours ago, Gerard said:

Arrogance?

 

Sorry but religious talk doesn't work with me.

 

Buddhism is flawed simply because:

 

It doesn't admit/regulate/acknowledge the universal law of the Yin/Yang.

 

Vipassana is probably the worst method today to reach the highest level. It can't go past deep blockages. 
 

 

 

 

 The Buddha did not deny energy, the laws of energy, and other kinds of phenomena in the world. He has hinted about energy, sentient beings on other planets, etc. He is aware of a lot more then people think, but decided to put his effort into a framework specific to the goal of nibbana. 

 

Him not talking about yin yang, is not the same as denying it. 

[Tommy]

20 hours ago, Gerard said:

Arrogance?

 

Sorry but religious talk doesn't work with me.

 

Buddhism is flawed simply because:

 

It doesn't admit/regulate/acknowledge the universal law of the Yin/Yang.

 

Vipassana is probably the worst method today to reach the highest level. It can't go past deep blockages. 

Please, no arrogance here. Maybe a bit of difference in understanding. Buddhism does acknowledge Ying and Yang as a part of Dualism. It is part of the conventional knowledge and not the absolute knowledge. Sorry, for me, I do not know how to explain such things. And Vipassana is just a method. Not good nor bad. The person(s) practicing the method  are the ones reflecting the value of the method. Of course, these are not the topic of this thread. Back to the soul in Buddhism, .... The teachings of the Dharma is only the vehicle or method to bring one across the waters. Once across the waters, one should drop the vehicle and move forward. Getting caught up the teachings is just another trap the mind makes. It will get one no where when entangled in argument.

Edited yesterday at 06:45 PM by Tommy

[Gerard]

12 hours ago, Krenx said:

but decided to put his effort into a framework specific to the goal of nibbana. 

 

Him not talking about yin yang, is not the same as denying it. 

 

He missed the mark big time. He actually had no idea about how reality really works.

 

The YY actually the two fundamental FORCES that stem from SPIRT and create the ENTIRE REALITY. But there is more to that:

 

1. Water force...sinks and rises 

2. Wood force...expands 

3. Fire force...peaks

4. Earth Force...harmonises, balances

5. Metal force...descends 

 

They are the FIVE DIMENSIONS of YY hence SPIRIT.

 

Keep regulating these two systems YY & 5F and you'll have an understanding of EVERYTHING including the vague nirvana which imo is irrelevant and BEYOND.

 

As you can see they are more than just energies, they are the building blocks of reality which in turn affect your entire consciousness as a human. To me this is the real deal, mess up with them and not only you'll live a miserable life but also will have a profound effect in your future life cycles. Someone who has achieved a perfect balance of YY and regulates the 5F can call themselves a truly awakened human.

 

 

 

[Keith108]

This place is pretty cool. There is another forum I hop into once in a while. They have different streams of Buddhism, and basically, people aren't allowed to troll other groups in their own forum. For instance, the post above wouldn't be allowed, because this is the Buddhism forum. It's basically trolling. But, I don't think we should be so soft as to not brook a little disagreement.

 

I have no response to the post, as it's gibberish from a Buddhist perspective. But, it's nice that this hasn't turned into a flame war.

 

_/|\_

Keith

[stirling]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

 

He missed the mark big time. He actually had no idea about how reality really works.

 

The YY actually the two fundamental FORCES that stem from SPIRT and create the ENTIRE REALITY. But there is more to that:

 

1. Water force...sinks and rises 

2. Wood force...expands 

3. Fire force...peaks

4. Earth Force...harmonises, balances

5. Metal force...descends 

 

They are the FIVE DIMENSIONS of YY hence SPIRIT.

 

Keep regulating these two systems YY & 5F and you'll have an understanding of EVERYTHING including the vague nirvana which imo is irrelevant and BEYOND.

 

As you can see they are more than just energies, they are the building blocks of reality which in turn affect your entire consciousness as a human. To me this is the real deal, mess up with them and not only you'll live a miserable life but also will have a profound effect in your future life cycles. Someone who has achieved a perfect balance of YY and regulates the 5F can call themselves a truly awakened human.

 

The Buddha purposely had the "unanswerable questions".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unanswerable_questions

 

These included cosmologies of all kinds. The reason for this is that, where there is realization, it is obvious that these questions are being posed from a logic and world view that has been seen to be a mirage - a delusion. Even Buddhism itself is eventually seen to be a constructed idea of reality, not non-dual reality itself. 

 

Quote

“The awakened mind is turned upside down and does not accord even with the Buddha-wisdom.” - Hui Hai

 

[Krenx]

1 hour ago, Keith108 said:

This place is pretty cool. There is another forum I hop into once in a while. They have different streams of Buddhism, and basically, people aren't allowed to troll other groups in their own forum. For instance, the post above wouldn't be allowed, because this is the Buddhism forum. It's basically trolling. But, I don't think we should be so soft as to not brook a little disagreement.

 

I have no response to the post, as it's gibberish from a Buddhist perspective. But, it's nice that this hasn't turned into a flame war.

 

_/|\_

Keith

 

Such is the nature of samsara. 🙏