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an affair to remember

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Posted (edited)

Good day kind readers,

 

obviously I'm new here, with no spirtual or esoteric background or interests, but a fancy for philosophy. I live rather ascetic, no drugs!, there have hardly been lovers in my life, mostly unrequited love (and i like to be alone, too), been studying strictly for the past eight years and now am studying still while working, I was (and am usually) into sports, enjoy long walks in nature and am a rather shy person. 

 

Almost one year ago, a series of interesting experiences began for me that is still changing my life. Although I'd say one shouldn't always seek explanations for wonders but simply cherish them while they last and although somewhere here in a thread from 2016 I found the quote that "answers end reality, questions keep it open" which made my day when I read it (couldn't figure out who the author was..?) 

I still feel kind of overwhelmed and am looking for the way, which right now seems quite hidden in the nebula. 

 

Therefore my question, with which I'd hope to break the ice...

 

is it possible to be in a tantric relationship without knowing for sure about it? 

what are the guidelines there, apart from intuition and mutual respect?


(...)

 

From what I understood about tantra or daoist practice with a partner, it is about honesty and trust, about letting the ego step aside (at least for awhile), about directing your deepest fears and managing them with grace. I view relationships as a learning process, as well as life itself. 

(...)

 

Boundaries and the boundless, there seems to be a dichotomy?

 

Is there something like uncouncious tantra? 

And when I say tantra, I know it's not exactly daoism, but daoist practice. 

 

I'd be glad for some helpful insight of someone who'd been in the experience of a 'healthy' tantric partnership (...)

 

 

Thank you for reading this far. 

(female, 28)

 

 

 

 

Edited by liberale.ironikerin
trying to get it more on point without blabbering...
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Hello liberala.ironikerin,

 

Your account is approved; welcome to the bums. I don’t believe anyone will have the answers you seek, as the answers would be very personal to you and your own journey. But perhaps other members may be able to provide points which will assist you in navigating your inner journey.

 

If you haven’t already done so please read the three topics pinned at the top of this sub forum regarding rules and expectations. And, speaking as a fellow woman, remember your sovereignty, and don’t fall to strongly into the idea of people knowing more than they actually do, or you do about yourself.

 

warm regards,

ilu

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Hello ilumairen,

 

thank You for Your direct answer and the welcome.

Curious what the jouney will bring.

 

;)

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Tantra in many ways is about bringing "awareness" to the sexual act.....so to unconsciously be in a Tantric relationship is a bit counter-intuitive.

 

Sex is not only a physical exchange, but a highly charged energetic exchanged. In Tantra or Sacred Sex, your putting a larger focus on the energy exchange and experiencing the Bliss of Union....rather than quick "unconscious release".

 

Deeper Union with another creates a stronger bond between people...so that's something important to take into consideration. Be aware of whom your allowing into your "space", there "intent" and the cords your forming. 

 

A couple of valuable books IMO: 

-The Heart of Tantric Sex Dian Richardson (she has many good books) 

-Sex Sorcery and Spirit by Jason Miller

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14 hours ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

Good day kind readers,

 

obviously I'm new here, with no spirtual or esoteric background or interests, but a fancy for philosophy. I live rather ascetic, no drugs!, there have hardly been lovers in my life, mostly unrequited love (and i like to be alone, too), been studying strictly for the past eight years and now am studying still while working, I was (and am usually) into sports, enjoy long walks in nature and am a rather shy person. 

 

Almost one year ago, a series of interesting experiences began for me that is still changing my life. Although I'd say one shouldn't always seek explanations for wonders but simply cherish them while they last and although somewhere here in a thread from 2016 I found the quote that "answers end reality, questions keep it open" which made my day when I read it (couldn't figure out who the author was..?) 

I still feel kind of overwhelmed and am looking for the way, which right now seems quite hidden in the nebula. 

 

Therefore my question, with which I'd hope to break the ice...

 

is it possible to be in a tantric relationship without knowing for sure about it? 

what are the guidelines there, apart from intuition and mutual respect?


(...)

 

From what I understood about tantra or daoist practice with a partner, it is about honesty and trust, about letting the ego step aside (at least for awhile), about directing your deepest fears and managing them with grace. I view relationships as a learning process, as well as life itself. 

(...)

 

Boundaries and the boundless, there seems to be a dichotomy?

 

Is there something like uncouncious tantra? 

And when I say tantra, I know it's not exactly daoism, but daoist practice. 

 

I'd be glad for some helpful insight of someone who'd been in the experience of a 'healthy' tantric partnership (...)

 

 

Thank you for reading this far. 

(female, 28)

 

 

 

 

 

Hi liberale.ironikerin

 

And thank you for this beautiful introduction. As someone who has been around for awhile, I gladly welcome you to this colorful place.

 

Though I can't say with certainty if I was the author of the highlighted part of your quote, it could have been me, at any rate, as it reflects the 'open philosophy' that I advocated on this board for several years now.

 

I certainly sympathize with your quest for answers and the particular way you presented it. Further insight comes to those who admit how little they know and how much more there is to understand - especially about themselves! :o

 

Whereas those (men and women alike) who claim to know best about themselves have already reached a dead end in their spiritual journey.

 

That said, sure, be discerning when evaluating the suggestions you get on a board like this and accept only those that you resonate with on an internal level. Oh, and beware of adults offering candies! But hey, I am sure you heard that one before! :lol:

 

Regarding your question - judging from personal experience - it is certainly possible to be in all kinds of relationships with others on an etheric/astral level, including tantric/sexual ones.

 

How exactly would you define 'tantric' in this context, though? :huh: 

And do you think that your partner may be aware of the interaction?

 

Best,

Michael 

(male, 51)

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

 

is it possible to be in a tantric relationship without knowing for sure about it? 

what are the guidelines there, apart from intuition and mutual respect?

Hi and welcome. The term tantric gets used very liberally, and it is not simply about the act of procreation. Tantra  works at the level of our minds and life energy, allowing for purification, and eventual spiritual awakening/enlightenment following certain ritualistic and contemplative means. In order for it to be successful, it requires initiation by a teacher who has significant proficiency in the system.

 

So, no, it is not possible to be in a tantric relationship in that way without being formally initiated — and even then, “relationships” are of a different kind than is normally connoted (amorous) by the term. 
 

It is however possible to be in a relationship with energetic elements to it — depending on the energetic access and sensitivity of both parties involved. At the deepest level, a relationship really about consciousness and energy. If your spiritual heart is open, as is that of the other person in the relationship, it will naturally transcend body-emotion attachment and start exploring the deeper alchemical aspects of the relationship.

 

Guidelines for that — don’t do anything without mutual consent, and always on the basis of selfless love.  


 

 

Edited by dwai

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Posted (edited)

Thank you all for the contributions and the welcome.

 

Abstract concepts are something I am used to deal with, as well as differentiation between causalities and correlations.

Usually I like to leave out causalities if I have no proof for for cause and effect. (...)

 

The concept of 'intent' and 'cords' @RiverSnake is something I accept theoretically but never believed to have some outside influence, if I do not combine it with setting something in motion on the outside (newtons laws etc. rather headstrong usually). Am I about to be corrected here?

I'm okay with developing myself, but would be horrified at the thought, that I had or would have any undue influence on someone around me.

 

 

The quote 'answers end reality. questions leave it open.' @Michael Sternbach was posted here by someone named Orion, I believe? He said, it was by his favorite author, but I couldn't figure out who the author is.

Glad, we seem to share some views here. :)

 

Right now I am really not at all into candies OR offering candies myself. To speak in the same metaphor, I rather took myself out of the candystore months ago, I believe.

 

Edit:

Obivously I need to make this clearer for those who do not understand meta-speak:

Not asking for help. Thanks, no!

Only for conversation.

 

(...)

 

 

Frankly, I cannot say for sure if the man was or is aware of any than the obvious interaction between us or if there is anything other than correlation (not sure about causality). (...)

 

Not sure, how I should define 'tantric' here... The recherche of the effects that he / it had on me obivously brought me to Tao. (...)

 

Very interesting @dwai, so if one of the partners is sort of not open with his, - well spirtual heart, then there is actually nothing going on in the deeper levels with this person sure, but what with the other one?

What if one decides to close out, does that have any negative side effects?

And, @dwai, what to you mean by selfless love? The healthy one? Leaving projections (of egotistic wishes and desires) behind? Subliming the emotions for the individual to something higher?

 

 

So yes, I like abstract concepts, still that doesn't make me a believer in anyone of them fast. (also some could make sense of this.)

(...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by liberale.ironikerin
annoying people

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52 minutes ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

ery interesting @dwai, so if one of the partners is sort of not open with his, - well spirtual heart, then there is actually nothing going on in the deeper levels with this person sure, but what with the other one?

There is conscious opening and there is subconscious opening (or closing). Someone might profess to be open but be subconsciously closing themselves out (or vice versa). So there might be something going on, but YMMV. 

52 minutes ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

What if one decides to close out, does that have any negative side effects?

Usually, when the heart opens up, it is an irreversible thing. One can choose whether or not to make a connection with another person, but it is not closing out per se. There are no harmful effects afaik...just that it might cause some "withdrawal"  (sadness, etc) depending on how close and intense the bond is, and how mature the individuals are. 

52 minutes ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

And, @dwai, what to you mean by selfless love? The healthy one? Leaving projections (of egotistic wishes and desires) behind? Subliming the emotions for the individual to something higher?

Selfless Love is the love that arises from the recognition of the underlying oneness of being. The physical and psychological separateness of different "persons" is only apparent -- underlying everyone is already One Consciousness. 

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Posted (edited)

Frankly, I don't know if that is

On 19.4.2021 at 7:21 PM, dwai said:

Usually, when the heart opens up, it is an irreversible thing.

what happened to me. (...)

 

 

I have always rather been a Jocko Willink (some former Navy Seal with now a cool podcast) kind a girl... Self discipline was my way. (...)

Now self discipline doesn't work like before. Last year, all it got me was high blood pressure, (...) extreme cravings for sports and running.(...)

 

(...)

Still I would be very thankful for _information and opinion_ here. :)

But not needing help, thanks.

(...) 

How do I get back to self discipline? Do I have to get carried by the flow or is there a way to make it work in unisono? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by liberale.ironikerin
correction

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Hi Li .

 

Some things 'jumped' out at me when reading  your posts

 

1.   " (female, 28)  '  and 'going through big changes '   and this gem ;  "  How do I get back to self discipline? Do I have to get carried by the flow "

 

THIS is the issue at 28  (astrologically )    and  'discipline ' ( and other Saturnian delights ) / going with the flow' and similar issues are being re-arranged and sorted out .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return

 

2.   "Is there something like uncouncious tantra?"   IMO definitely !   - Now, you are going to ge all sorts of definitions , 'corrections' and 'traditional denials ' here , but I think I know what you mean  , and that comes from  your own associated  experiences ;  " Kind of like a car crash, filters blowing out like from a blast wave, motion stuff and something like being unconscious (like in a car crash) but rather the opposite, as its not getting dark but light and very comfy still, as the senses are kind of relieved. "

 

If it isnt 'Tantra' let's say you definitely had  an experience with someone that shook up your 'energetic body ' .    

 

Now, about 'unconscious'   (tantra) ; IMO we have large and full lives in areas we are often not aware / conscious of , and similar interactions .  Two experiences come to mind ; the first with J.  - we had been good close and comfortable friends for some time ,   we did have sex once or twice, but that was not the focus of our relationship . Then one night , I am having an 'lucid dream'  experience and J comes floating through my window , sitting in lotus and hovers over me while I am lying on my bed  and well , I'll leave out the details, except that there was no actual connection between our bodies, but our 'energy fields' interacted .

 

Sorta like this, but without the touching

 

alex-grey-third-force1_orig.jpg

 

'  OAD   ...  at a distance '  ( sorry , thats a bad Daobums private joke )

 

Thng is, it wasn';t just a 'horny dream ' , I could tell from the  energetic effects afterwards and the changes that came about on the physical plane. And we had sex before and nothing like that happened . And curiously, we never mentioned it , when we met after that we both had a wry smile, but never mentioned it  , we both knew something had happened 'in the other word ' . Similar occurred  another time or two, but then it faded  ..... and that morphed into the second experience a while later  - more conscious and deliberate as far as  getting into a sexual relationship , and knowing  the chemistry was good / volatile / powerful , but, I would say 'unconscious' of its results  ( so maybe this is more  'ignorant tantra' than 'unconscious tantra '  ?  :D )   Anyway, with A. it 'went off' to a crazy extent , we where rejuvenated ... shining , and not just us, other people noticed , I mean, we even got stopped in the street , more than once by people, and including once by a total stranger that wanted to know what was going on between us ... and could they have some !  :D  It was just a touch ,  they sort of rubbed both our arms , some people asked for an embrace , it was all rather unusual .

 

Energy like that can be directed  and used , it doesn't deplete   as its constantly being generated  - 'magick stuff'  .    However , it turned out A was rather reckless  with her energy and a bit destructive with an unbalanced streak .  We started to work on that , she ended our relationship , went through a whole lot of stuff   (yes, now that I think of it, she was coming out of a Saturn  Return as well .  Happy to say through , after a few years of perseverance and patience, ( and supporting her , her 3 kids and herself through some crazy relationships she had , and a marriage and another baby AND then the death of her husband (all in 18 months ) we are friends again and she has continued her 'course of development '  - and is doing well.  :)  - although living in another location farther away .

 

Regarding this ; " Frankly, I cannot say for sure if the man was or is aware of any than the obvious interaction between us or if there is anything other than correlation (not sure about causality). (...) "  - I think it depends on how in tune people are with their 'other life' some have not a clue 'what they get up to '   :)  others a hint and others know , so it depends on what he is 'tuned into' ( me, I got a huge dose of Neptunian natal energy reflecting of Mercury, so I virtually live in that other world , but have been driven 'nuts' by it  - a balanced mercury helps there ) .  Things is , when things are understood more  the other and even both , need not know whats happening , as long as 'the work is accomplished '. But for those of us with a more magical approach - we might want to move the conscious and the unconscious a bit closer together .

 

To finish off, I might address this ;  "I'm okay with developing myself, but would be horrified at the thought, that I had or would have any undue influence on someone around me. "

 

You will have to get over that a bit , we are all in it together to an extent and cannot help but influence things around us . however there are rules and parameters  , and that applies , magically, very importantly  with issues such as these very ones .

 

In a sort of obscure explanation. I will reference one of my 'stories' .

 

( Damn search engine here !    I was going to link to where its posted here, but the search engine hasnt worked since 2011   :D so I will just tack it on the end  here ;

 

Spoiler

The Demon Lover.


It all started innocently enough.

Immediately after I had first met L. I began to become attracted to her. Then I began to imagine, at night, lying in my bed, that she would be lying next to me. It was nice, warm and wholesome. But then the serpent reared it’s head and my feelings began to take a sexual turn. This somewhat surprised me. But I kept control of it. However my night imaginings became more intense, until, one night I broke the rule.

I have no excuse. My teacher had warned me about this while he was still alive. “Never,” he informed me, “must the Magician enact a sexual penetration on another whilst in his Body of Light UNLESS he has first had that experience on the physical plane and  with the consent of that person.”

I broke the rule. I was tempted to excuse myself by saying I couldn’t help it; a pathetic and ridiculous excuse for a Magician. It happened little by little, until one night … I did it. I wasn’t worried at first as L. seemed to be enjoying it. I continued my ‘affair’ each night. It was very enjoyable for me as well but little did I know back then, that by breaking the rule I had released … The Demon.

As time went on The Demon became more powerful, soon I was lost to it. But I could not tell as I was in a storming vortex of desire.

I had altogether stopped seeing her on the physical plane. But at night I called her and she came … every night. My love making became more intense. I called her and she came.

My Body of Light had sprouted horns and long fingers with talons. I did unspeakable things to her … and I delighted in it.

Then one night I thought, ‘I always draw her here, what if I go to her place and invade her very bedroom?’ With that wicked thought the Demon grew stronger, the horns grew longer, like a goat’s, the talons grew sharper.

The next night the Demon arose from my body and flew through the air and stopped above her house and hovered. I knew that she knew I was there. I descended through the roof and hovered above her canopy. I knew that she knew I was there. I descended through the canopy and hovered over her bed. She looked up and I knew that she could see me. She squirmed in her sleep, but I knew she could not escape. I began my descent down upon her.

Then something strange happened to me as I began to enter her auric field. I began to feel very different. I looked over in her mirror and saw the form of my astral body – that can’t be right! My body was a field of energy, my chakras were geometric mandalas of light. Lines and fields of energy linked and flowed through them, arching and spiraling. I tried to change back but I couldn’t. I tried to stop my descent to her but I couldn’t. And then a ray of pure brilliance entered my crown chakra, streamed down through my Body of Light and out through my base chakra. I descended towards her, a vertical geometric Vajra of magnetic light.

I looked at her, lying flat on her back beneath me, her Body of Light looked as mine, except instead of a line of energy, a giant black whirlpool had formed over her base chakra. I panicked, not being in control, this should NOT be happening … actually, what IS happening? My Body of Light assumed the lotus position hovering above her and the stream of light pouring out beneath me entered her whirlpool.

I hovered in lotus just above her body, the energy poured into her and she squirmed with delight. Then I too moved into a horizontal position facing down, she lay on her back facing up. Our chakras were aligned and energy flowed from mine to hers in a blue white ray. Then, I started to move slowly up  her body until our chakras aligned differently; my base on her sexual centre, my sexual centre on her navel, my navel on her heart, my heart on her throat, my throat on her third eye, my third eye on her crown and the streaming light joining them changed color. Then I moved up another level with another color and so on until my base was connected to her top chakra. Then I moved all the way down, aligning each set of chakras until finally her base was above my top chakra.

I looked at her and all of a sudden was struck by her incredible physical beauty. I saw her feet and wanted to touch them. I reached out my hands of Light and then I heard a strange, electro-static, tearing and ripping sound and my physical hands pierced through my auric shell and touched her physical feet. I wanted to kiss them and now my head and shoulders and arms, making the same echoing, electro-static noise, pierced through my shell.

I looked at her and saw the shock on her face. The Demon loved that, he laughed and thought, ‘How delightful, imagine what it must be like to know your night Demon is now there physically.’ I laughed. But then, she laughed too. I began to stroke and kiss her feet  and words rushed out of me praising her feet and their beauty, their hills and valleys, the paths they have walked and experiences they had led her to. I kissed them. Then I moved up to her knees worshipping them as well and praising them for never kneeling in submission to another but only in honor and worship of the Goddess. I moved up to her thighs. My arms turned to writhing pythons which twisted around her thighs and gripped and slid and squeezed them. Other parts of me became snakes and, startled I realized some of them had begun to enter her.

Now I was starting to think, ‘This is too much, this is too full-on, I can’t do this, it’s too weird.’ But SHE laughed at ME! Then, with a strange compassion for my fear, allowed me to resume my previous form. I moved slowly up her body, worshipping each part of it. I noticed her beautiful olive skin, and although her hair was as dark as the desert night her skin was covered in tiny blonde hairs. I looked closely and saw they were not hairs at all, they were the glistening spear points of millions of tiny angels swarming over the surface of her skin, no, not swarming over her skin, they WERE her skin. Then I lay upon her and suddenly was struck by a brilliant white light, immediately followed by a quick flashing succession of pictures of her face showing all the orgasms she had had with me, passing quicker and quicker until in one giant climax her body writhed, she let out a call in a language I have never heard, her eyes rolled back in her head so only the whites could be seen. Our Bodies of Light were pulsating in a wild chromatic energy field of intersecting lines. Where each of our lines crossed a spark of brilliance was formed that flew off in all directions making a geometric fountain of light. And then, like one giant skyrocket going off, it exploded and I was hurled back into my body and bed and woke up with a start, in a hot sweat, panting and …. Ok, I’ll admit it … I was a little frightened.

The next night the same thing happened. And the next. She called me and I came. I could not resist it. I willed it not to happen, but still, she called me and I came.

I declared; ‘This will NOT happen!’ with my full magical intent. It didn’t work.

I did the pentagram ritual each night. It didn’t work.

I covered my room with spells, incense, pentagrams, talismans, geomantic figures, herbs, garlic, wolfbane and hyssop. It didn’t work.

I moved my bed into my magic circle and chained myself to my bed with one hundred and eleven silver chains. It didn’t work.

She called me and I came.

I began to feel weak, I began to loose weight. But still she called me and I came. My horns began to shrink back to their normal size, a moon crescent appeared in the furrows upon my brow, and my hands became soft and sensuous.

People began to notice. “Gosh, you’re looking great lately. Lost a bit of weight too?” they would say.

It made The Demon angry.

She called and there was nothing The Demon could do about it.

So he eventually gave up. And then, he left me altogether.

I finally confessed to L. what I had done, as for some time we had started seeing each other again on the physical plane.

“I know.” She told me and smiled.

 And then one day she looked me in the eye and said, “I release you.”

“What if I don’t want to be released?” I asked her.

“Well, that’s up to you now isn’t it?” She replied.

Now, she calls and I come. I can resist it very easily -  If I want to.

........     But I don’t want to.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Hi Nungali,

 

thank you for sharing your experiences and the welcome!

To some extent mine have a similiarity concerning the effects that relationship had on me.

Your assumption about the saturnic return is correct, as I just verified. (...)

 

 

 

OADs? The acronym sound reminds me of IEDs (as improvised explosive devices):D

Somewhat a similar working mechanism, eh? :huh: (...)

 

What's the whole point of this, in your opinion?

 

On 21.4.2021 at 12:16 AM, Nungali said:

we might want to move the conscious and the unconscious a bit closer together .

 

Out of a purely hypothetical interest, I would be curious as of how that might work?

 

(...)

 

With demons, do you mean manifestations of fear or negative emotion? Guess our perception differs here.

(...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by liberale.ironikerin
clarification and addition
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

Hi Nungali,

 

thank you for sharing your experiences and the welcome!

To some extent mine have a similiarity concerning the effects that relationship had on me.

 

Also your assumption about the saturnic return is correct, as I just verified. The bugger is right now but only at a 4° conjunct with the natal saturn ( in my 11th house).(...)

 

There's such a longing to support that man (...)

And he doesn't let me get close now. Anyways.

 

Okay , so that one's over - onwards and upwards , its all part of the big jig saw puzzle - we learn as we go along  ... and hopefully, whoever is related to next gets the benefit of  your experience .

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

Trust him, he has his reasons. (last (direct) contact I was a songtext concerning Luke at 8:43–48, - worried me sick without knowing why ??:huh:? Edit: and (...) something about a 'magic potion', 'blowing confetti' and 'being grumpy' (...)

 

What is happening...?

 

Sounds like he is being obscure and cant cough up exactly what he needs to ? 

 

 

Quote

 

(...)

 

OADs? The acronym sound reminds me of IEDs (as improvised explosive devices):D

 

Brilliant !  .....   you may have discovered the only safe way to approach  Drew  ;

 

image.png.a493a4bafbf1835777f12b8cad4ae3c2.png

 

 

Quote

Somewhat a similar working mechanism, eh? :huh: Yes, several since meeting him - while getting ready to meet with him that swept me of my feet to the ground.:blink: Just ascribed it to the lack of intercourse the last years. And when stumbling about his picture or (and that's weird) when I believed he stumbled among mine (algorythm on certain dating platformes can sometimes be so predictable), although less intense. 

Edit: they weren't actually at the place where they are supposed to start either, rather further up so, well - I feel a bit hesitant to call them OADs... that's why IEDs

 

What's the whole point of this, in your opinion?

 

Sorry, what the whole point of  what ? - the picture thing/ your coincidences  ?  

 

Or Drew thinking he can give girls at McDonalds OAD ?     The point of the second is to boost Drew's ego

 

The first ?

 

Jeeze !  Who knows , sometimes blind chance or a mistake can have an amazing effect ,  sometimes it seems like the whole thing is orchestrated .    I seem to fluctuate between the two  at different times , although I have to say in my most doubting moments I have been  'slapped in the face '  by certainty of this orchestration  .. and even if I somehow orchestrated these events myself  ( internally / psychologically )  that suggests other equally fantastic forces at work .

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Out of a purely hypothetical interest, I would be curious as of how that might work?

 

Well, thats a whole curriculum of magical training  - one way to start is to keep a dream diary .   

 

If you are interested about  intense relationship dynamic with others that energise us / cause reactions ... and since you seem 'up on astrology' a bit , I would refer you to the writings of psychological astrologer Liz Greene .

 

She has some excellent stuff on anima animus dynamics and how  it interplays .    

 

 

Quote

 

And any hints at how dealing with the saturn return bugger, that seems to be coming back and forth for the next time?

Self discipline AND flowing with the way ? How tf is that supposed to work?

 

Hmmmm ..... thats a BIG one .  First, I will give you some hope ; going into it it is like restriction and discipline  ( or issues, flows and restrictions related to those things ) but coming out of it is a new freedom .  Its like learning the first lesson of initiation all over again ; in order to gain real freedom  (in anything ; thought , action of body, physical practice, study, etc ) one first has to learn discipline structure and organisation .

 

Saturn return is like beginning yoga ;  we THINK our body is free, relaxed and at ease ... and it might feel better to lie in bed through the dawn  - but this aspect of Saturn  WILL MAKE YOU  rise before dawn and do your yoga - one way or another -  eventually you find your body frees up and relaxes and is more under control, etc , than before .  (just an example in case I was being too obscure )

 

going 'down'  the Kabbalistic Tree Saturn brings the ideal forces together into manifestation , but going up the  Tree she releases form and things become 'liberated' - so she is said to 'dissolve' , ' The Great Sea'  , the Cosmic Mother  and gateway to life and death .

 

571d1d85182519c4cc2eabd6b41ce67d.gif

 

I won't tell you about my SECOND  Saturn return  ( My God , how did I survive that ! )  ... I am guessing if I make it to my 3rd one , it will probably kill me  .......    but the first one is no where near as intense as the latter ones .

 

Hmmm .. I haven't really given advice as to how to handle it . I guess the best way is to try and detect the lesson at hand and act accordingly .   Its tough, as often we get pushed in a direction we feel we dont  want to go . But maybe that will have a good positive learning outcome , then again it could be 'learning via hammer time' .   Both are valuable learning experiences . The  way is to try staying on top of things  - learning before the hammer time , or learning , not by your own mistakes , but by the observation of others  methods that leads to mistakes .  .... My friend , who I said was reckless , deliberately avoided this  ; " I want to learn by my own mistakes . "  Of course, we need both  IMO - observation AND personal experience - , boy did she have a hard time  and wail and complain about it  ... but that was her choice  - she ended up okay  and seems happy now , although at times she seemed in the pit of despair .

 

 

 

Quote

 

With demons, do you mean manifestations of fear or negative emotion? Guess our perception differs here.

My main squares are with jupiter. (...)

 

Hopefully lucky and beneficial then .

 

In the case of 'demons' , in my story, its just a modern  image or concept, the idea being , wrongful actions against others will impact negatively on yourself .   Give yourself over to base urges and you are likely to become a manifestation of base urges ... seems simple , but  often people dont seem to get that .

 

There is a lot more in there , but  that will do for 'story analysis ' .

 

As far as 'demons' generally - I have a lot of posts here on the subject   - my views on them are more the classical ones    and also I  ascribe to  ( one of my outlooks ) ' Daimonic Reality ' .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(classical_mythology)

 

https://dreamflesh.com/interview/animated-world-patrick-harpur/

 

 

Edited by Nungali

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Posted (edited)

Sorry, there's so much I don't seem to get here... I'll end up asking just more questions, - don't know where that ends (if anywhere)...

 

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

whoever is related to next gets the benefit of  your experience

there's a benefit?

who is related to what? me?

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

so that one's over - onwards and upwards , its all part of the big jig saw puzzle

is it ever over? 

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

he is being obscure

no kidding!

from the very beginning.

but why? 

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

to approach  Drew

who is this? a person? what's this got to do with anything?

 

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

it seems like the whole thing is orchestrated

smiling on the inside. (no pun intended.)

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

start is to keep a dream diary

Ok I'll try.

(...)

I'll look into Liz Greene, I guess, thank you!

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

going 'down'  the Kabbalistic Tree

mystic. hmm ??

 

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

a good positive learning outcome

okay, that seems okay.

 

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

but by the observation of others  methods that leads to mistakes

'mistakes'? what is a mistake here?

 

On 22.4.2021 at 12:10 AM, Nungali said:

but  that will do for 'story analysis ' .

thank you for trying to help me!

Edited by liberale.ironikerin
calming down

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

Sorry, there's so much I don't seem to get here... I'll end up asking just more questions, - don't know where that ends (if anywhere)...

 

The soldier and the hunchback 

 

! ? ! ? ! ? ! ?

 

- a  question leads to an answer , which leads to another question, which leads to an answer , which  leads  ....

 

Quote

 

there's a benefit?

 

The benefit of accrued experience and knowledge , that hopefully leads to understanding and wisdom .

 

Quote

who is related to what? me?

 

Yes, or , whoever you relate to .

 

Eg . I spent  a lot of time looking after a friends small children , during that I lerant patience and tolerance and kindness to children . Now when I interact with children , I apply that .

 

Quote

is it ever over? 

 

Hmmm ... good point .  Perhaps not  ....... things do 'shift' though into other dynamics .

 

Quote

no kidding!

 

:)  '    .

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

from the very beginning.

but why? 

 

 

One needs one's own clarity to be clear with others.

 

Some cover their confusion in all sorts of ways , its rather frustrating  ... but a 'truth teller' can be frustrating  too ;

 

" Your not even really my boyfriend !  Why are you hanging around all the  time, haven't you got your own things to do and your own place to look after ?"

 

Okey dokey , I go and do that then .   ... 3 days later   , on the phone  ( crying )  " Where have you been, why have you abandoned me  ! "

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

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who is this? a person? what's this got to do with anything?

 

sorry for confusions , he is Just a guy we make fun of here .

 

the crux of that part was  'oad'  ( orgasm at a distance ) in reference to my friend who floated through the window - we never actually touched ( at a distance ) but had amazing energy interaction ('orgasm' )

 

I too can be obscure at times .  ( Hmmm ..... I should look at that )

 

......

 

another reason for 'obscurity'  - we have complex thoughts and think others are 'on the same page ' so when we reveal part of or the end of those thoughts , it can appear obscure to others .

 

Quote

 

exactly. (not kidding.)

Ok I'll try.

(...)

I'll look into Liz Greene, I guess, thank you!

mystic. hmm. 

 

okay, that seems okay.

 

'mistakes'? what is a mistake here?

 

Good question .    None of it might be a mistake .  Then again, everytime we think " Damn , I should have done  ...... instead ' we could think of it as a mistake .  I suppose the main point is NOT if we make a mistake but what we learn .

 

But sometimes there are easier ways 'to make a mistake'  - one can observe another's recklessness, say in driving  and observe their results ; they have now have a life long disability , and/or have injured others  , NOW they have learned to drive safely .  You could go down that path or maybe observe the other's mistake and drive carefully yourself or maybe have  a near miss ' mistake' and start driving  more safely because of that.

 

 

 

Quote

 

thank you for trying to help me!

 

 

I hope I havent been to obscure or  explained the obvious to you     :unsure:

Edited by Nungali

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Posted (edited)
On 22.4.2021 at 11:47 PM, Nungali said:

?

 

- a  question leads to an answer

i believe i get you point here, but somewhat i would have preferred the image of don quichote de cervantes than the one you offered. or the one of socrates. or something with a little more light.

 

good lord, the author of that  ...  essay you mentioned up there seems even more lost than poor nietzsche.

both seem to me to have missed an important point, in my humble opinion.

forgive me for saying so, but that man 'smells' awful in my opinion

(he stinks! really! awful! although no one asked me for my opinion on this.)

poor fools. (but i guess he had it coming. abuse. irrationalities. so common. so stupid.)

 

On 22.4.2021 at 11:47 PM, Nungali said:

whoever you relate to

 

alright. that reminds me of what i believe in. that's good.

 

 

 

(...)

 

--

 

what i still don't seem to get here, who this drew guy is (...) i suppose that's really not important. (...)

 

thank you for reminding me. :)

 

 


 

thank you all for answering the questions, that needed to be answered here, that were answered maybe in a different way than expected. finally i guess i will be able to go back to work effectivly.

 

see ya! maybe ;)

 

Edited by liberale.ironikerin
clarification

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On 4/19/2021 at 12:24 PM, liberale.ironikerin said:

>>> Is there sort of a corner in the forum, I haven't found yet, where women talk about changes?


Yes, there is an area here for this type of gender focused discussion, but we don’t say much there. I don’t know if the general silence there is due to the fact we have had men here create accounts as women (without actually identifying as such in everyday life), the women who have stuck around here tend to be older, or we simply have little to say on the subject.

 

This thread is where you would request access:

 

 

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