Subtle Clinging

[Maddie]

Something I've been thinking about recently is the more subtle forms of clinging and attachment. The more gross and obvious forms like clinging to the things of the senses seem pretty obvious, sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch, and thoughts, but what about the less obvious forms of clinging? This is the type of clinging that often gets overlooked because it is a spiritual method, practice, or tradition. This kind of clinging can take the form of clinging takes the form of clinging to a religion, or clinging to practice, or clinging to a spiritual concept. It is the idea of clinging to the raft after we have arrived on the other shore of the river. Has anyone else dealt with clinging to the practice itself, or some other type of spiritual tradition? 

[dwai]

On 12/25/2020 at 1:35 PM, dmattwads said:

It is the idea of clinging to the raft after we have arrived on the other shore of the river. Has anyone else dealt with clinging to the practice itself, or some other type of spiritual tradition?

Once the proverbial “other shore” is reached,  there is no more clinging. One of course may or may not continue to practice their chosen religion/spiritual practice. 

[Limahong]

On 12/26/2020 at 3:35 AM, dmattwads said:

It is the idea of clinging to the raft after we have arrived on the other shore of the river.

 

 

When you have reached the other shore of the river ~ why do you still want to stay in the water?

 

Unless you are on the river of no return...

 

 

 

[Mithras]

I is actually more of a collection of clingings, which can be very subtle. Clinging to flaws, clinging to virtues, and clinging to various activities.

 

I recently actually had a dream that involved clinging to love. In which it was revealed that an unhealthy relationship/love seems to involve ownership. However, I think division is the worst kind of clinging.

 

Besides the story, the 2nd paragraph reveals how deeply these clinging can subtly stand. Concepts like I, etc are not natural. They are gained and only seem natural due to constant reinforcement. What is natural is beyond the tides of what has been gained and lost.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Mithras

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Mithras said:

 

 

I recently actually had a dream that involved clinging to love. In which it was revealed that an unhealthy relationship/love seems to involve ownership. However, I think division is the worst kind of clinging.

 

 

It is for the reason I am very hesitant with the word "love". I prefer kindness and compassion because the western notion of "love" involves a lot of attachment, craving, and clinging.

Edited December 27, 2020 by dmattwads

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, dmattwads said:

I prefer kindness and compassion because the western notion of "love" involves a lot of attachment, craving, and clinging.

 

Hi dmattwads,

 

Only the the western notion when...?

 

 

- Anand

 

 

[steve]

On 12/25/2020 at 2:35 PM, dmattwads said:

Something I've been thinking about recently is the more subtle forms of clinging and attachment. The more gross and obvious forms like clinging to the things of the senses seem pretty obvious, sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch, and thoughts, but what about the less obvious forms of clinging? This is the type of clinging that often gets overlooked because it is a spiritual method, practice, or tradition. This kind of clinging can take the form of clinging takes the form of clinging to a religion, or clinging to practice, or clinging to a spiritual concept. It is the idea of clinging to the raft after we have arrived on the other shore of the river. Has anyone else dealt with clinging to the practice itself, or some other type of spiritual tradition? 

 

Definitely. If you practice long enough there is no end to the gross and subtle forms of clinging we can discover.

 

 

 

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, steve said:

If you practice long enough there is no end to the gross and subtle forms of clinging we can discover.

 

Hi steve,

 

On a cultivated path of detachment ~ we attach more of everything?

 

Until we become aware wuwei-lessly (without effort) that everything is reduced to nothing.

EMPTINESS

 

  

There is no worry in the empty world. There is no wordly desires in the empty world. So you don't have to worry about wordly desires. There is no worry of aging or dying. There are no causes or consequences of suffering. You don't even need a way to get rid of your suffering. There is no selfish "wisdom". Therefore, there is no selfish enlightenment.

 

 

 

 

 

- Anand

 

 

[Limahong]

11 minutes ago, Limahong said:

Prajna Paramita Heart Sutra