mYogi

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Hi everyone,

 

I’m a yogi, and I’m interested in discussing various topics like yoga, energy, Chi Hong, breathing, posture, philosophy etc.

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Welcome to the Tao Bums.  A wonderful forum to learn, discuss and cultivate.  Below are 3 important sections: Our Rules, The Insult Policy and our 3 Foundations.  Before you join click on [Reveal hidden contents] give them a read. 

 

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Thanks guys, 

 

I’m at the moment interested in comparing Yoga and Chi Gong, or Tai Chi, I see a lot of similarities, but also some differences.

I’ve been practicing Yoga for couple of decades, together with the study of different philosophies and related areas.

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On 2020-07-26 at 8:25 PM, mYogi said:

 

I’m at the moment interested in comparing Yoga and Chi Gong, or Tai Chi, I see a lot of similarities, but also some differences.

Are you most interested in the physical aspects, the energetic systems, or the Mind aspects? 

 

I'm sure that no matter which, if you just start a couple of threads others will chip in. 

 

I will avoid the Mind aspect myself, but will aid in the general confusion and melee on the other two 😁

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the welcome Daniel.

 

@Cleansox

 

Well, I’m interested in all of them, since they are all interrelated.

However, I’m mostly interested in the transcendent aspect:).

I reduced over the years reading, thinking, talking, activities of the mind.

Now I meditate, contemplate, I watch nature, chop wood-carry water as they say.

 

Now, the reason why I came to the Internet forum, which I consider a not very sattvic medium:ph34r:, is that I want to help a friend who is a noob in Qigong or gentle Tai Chi.

 

So, I tried to help him with Hatha yoga, but he is very stubborn, doesn’t want to do it as he is afraid of heart energy going up. 

When I try to help someone, I usually ask a lot of questions, about diet, daily routine, I inspect the posture, breathing, energy in the nose and sinuses, I try to determine a psychological type, yin and yang energies, and a ask a lot of other questions.

 

I noticed immediately that my friend has a mostly tamasic (inert, lethargic) temperament, with a chest sinking a bit, which goes together often.

Now, for a yogi that’s a no brainer, I give them backbends, chest openers, pranayama with large expansion of the chest, Kapalabhati pranayama etc.

On the level of the mind, I suggest some values, affirmations, attitudes that I think they miss, which are yang in nature. 

I also introduce some meditation right at the beginning as a taste of what’s to come later and a kind of an incentive.

 

I tried to explain to my friend that both yin and yang have their positive and negative aspects, that not all yang is bad, but he is still reluctant to try my suggestions.

 

So, now I’m trying to help him in Qigong way, but I don’t now how, and I’ve just started my Taoist-TCM studies, so I’m a noob too:D.

 

The thing is that I find Qigong an excellent tool to treat people with destructive yang, but not people with bad yin. How do I straighten his posture if he doesn’t want to stretch up or back, which a logical thing to do?

How do I heal his chest energy which we call prana vayu(wind) in yoga without my yogic toolkit?

 

I tried a standing Tai Chi pose, and I find it excellent for meditation. I understood it immediately, almost all the elements are yin. I was able to enter a mini-samadhi in the pauses after exhalation almost the first time I did it. I breathed Ujjayi with full chest expansion and large volume, as I did it during my asana practice, will try with abdominal breathing some other time, but abdominal breathing is very familiar to me as a yogi.

The only thing that I didn’t get is if I should engage the muscles of the legs and gluteus a bit.

Edited by mYogi
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44 minutes ago, mYogi said:

 

@Cleansox

 

So, I tried to help him with Hatha yoga, but he is very stubborn, doesn’t want to do it as hi is afraid of heart energy going up. 

/... ... /

 

I noticed immediately that my friend has a mostly tamasic (inert, lethargic) temperament, with a chest sinking a bit, which goes together often.

Now, for a yogi that’s a no brainer, I give them backbends, chest openers, pranayama with large expansion of the chest, Kapalabhati pranayama etc.

/... ... /

 

The thing is that I find Qigong an excellent tool to treat people with destructive yang, but not people with bad yin. How do I straighten his posture if he doesn’t want to stretch up or back, which a logical thing to do?

He can straighten his back and sink/relax the chest at the same time, a focus on the kwa and the expansion of the shoulders nests will provide gentler tools then overexpansion of the chest. 

 

That would be the Chinese way. 😁 

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On 7/29/2020 at 4:50 PM, mYogi said:

Thanks for the welcome Daniel.

 

@Cleansox

 

Well, I’m interested in all of them, since they are all interrelated.

However, I’m mostly interested in the transcendent aspect:).

I reduced over the years reading, thinking, talking, activities of the mind.

Now I meditate, contemplate, I watch nature, chop wood-carry water as they say.

 

Now, the reason why I came to the Internet forum, which I consider a not very sattvic medium:ph34r:, is that I want to help a friend who is a noob in Qigong or gentle Tai Chi.

 

So, I tried to help him with Hatha yoga, but he is very stubborn, doesn’t want to do it as he is afraid of heart energy going up. 

When I try to help someone, I usually ask a lot of questions, about diet, daily routine, I inspect the posture, breathing, energy in the nose and sinuses, I try to determine a psychological type, yin and yang energies, and a ask a lot of other questions.

 

I noticed immediately that my friend has a mostly tamasic (inert, lethargic) temperament, with a chest sinking a bit, which goes together often.

Now, for a yogi that’s a no brainer, I give them backbends, chest openers, pranayama with large expansion of the chest, Kapalabhati pranayama etc.

On the level of the mind, I suggest some values, affirmations, attitudes that I think they miss, which are yang in nature. 

I also introduce some meditation right at the beginning as a taste of what’s to come later and a kind of an incentive.

 

I tried to explain to my friend that both yin and yang have their positive and negative aspects, that not all yang is bad, but he is still reluctant to try my suggestions.

 

So, now I’m trying to help him in Qigong way, but I don’t now how, and I’ve just started my Taoist-TCM studies, so I’m a noob too:D.

 

The thing is that I find Qigong an excellent tool to treat people with destructive yang, but not people with bad yin. How do I straighten his posture if he doesn’t want to stretch up or back, which a logical thing to do?

How do I heal his chest energy which we call prana vayu(wind) in yoga without my yogic toolkit?

 

I tried a standing Tai Chi pose, and I find it excellent for meditation. I understood it immediately, almost all the elements are yin. I was able to enter a mini-samadhi in the pauses after exhalation almost the first time I did it. I breathed Ujjayi with full chest expansion and large volume, as I did it during my asana practice, will try with abdominal breathing some other time, but abdominal breathing is very familiar to me as a yogi.

The only thing that I didn’t get is if I should engage the muscles of the legs and gluteus a bit.

As mentioned by @Cleansox. But as complementary and a reminder, as you probably already suggested this, let your friend have a good daily routine with good foods and good drinks (clean water esp in the midday and evening). And let this routine just have a practice your friend prefers at around the same time every day (maybe not weekends), which will include standing positions. Go slow and steady.

 

Tamas I come accros is mostly due to bad ingestion of something or things. Irregular sleeping patterns, watching too much television, jadiejadiejadie. And mostly with Tamas you only want to bring about 1 or 2 efforts which are doable. Giving too many changes at once will not be accepted / can not (?) By somebody with a lot of Tamas. If there is depression think about compassion, tell them it sucks but it is totally fine (hence also not giving too much of a change). Somewhere in your friend there is their own path, most of the times you can not really change that or explain that, however providing warmth and acceptance while continuing your own path and caring about them without trying too much to help gives them the freedom to decide for themselves. Not sure of this above clicks with you, good luck and have fun with your friend (just as play, talk, sing etc). It is all good, even if it seems blurry for a while.

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On 7/29/2020 at 9:50 AM, mYogi said:

Now, for a yogi that’s a no brainer, I give them backbends, chest openers, pranayama with large expansion of the chest, Kapalabhati pranayama etc.

On the level of the mind, I suggest some values, affirmations, attitudes that I think they miss, which are yang in nature. 

I also introduce some meditation right at the beginning as a taste of what’s to come later and a kind of an incentive.

 

I tried to explain to my friend that both yin and yang have their positive and negative aspects, that not all yang is bad, but he is still reluctant to try my suggestions.

 

So, now I’m trying to help him in Qigong way, but I don’t now how, and I’ve just started my Taoist-TCM studies, so I’m a noob too:D.

 

The thing is that I find Qigong an excellent tool to treat people with destructive yang, but not people with bad yin. How do I straighten his posture if he doesn’t want to stretch up or back, which a logical thing to do?

How do I heal his chest energy which we call prana vayu(wind) in yoga without my yogic toolkit?

 

I tried a standing Tai Chi pose, and I find it excellent for meditation. I understood it immediately, almost all the elements are yin. I was able to enter a mini-samadhi in the pauses after exhalation almost the first time I did it. I breathed Ujjayi with full chest expansion and large volume, as I did it during my asana practice, will try with abdominal breathing some other time, but abdominal breathing is very familiar to me as a yogi.

The only thing that I didn’t get is if I should engage the muscles of the legs and gluteus a bit.

Hi mYogi, nice to meet someone with dedication, sincerity and experience, and a willingness to keep learning.

 

I was much like your friend years ago, focused on Daoist practices and thinking "sink the chest" meant "collapse the chest", believed yoga was too forceful and yang for me.  Well, I realized my Daoist practices were exacerbating my depression, and I met a yoga teacher that impressed me, so I took up yoga in great earnest.  I became, but most standards, quite proficient at yogasana and intense pranayama methods.  Until I realized something was wrong, somehow the insides of my body weren't moving like they were supposed to even though the outside looked correct due to hypermobile joints, and it would be ill advised to continue.  Not to long later became aware of a Daoist teacher that taught differently than I had seen in the past - he emphasized that the proper way to practice was to distinguish between relaxing and collapsing, and learn to relax the muscles while engaging the web of connective tissue throughout the whole body, which makes standing practice feel anything but relaxing!  I knew that this is what I had been missing - in yogasana and breathing methods as well as my prior Daoist practice I had a complete lack of connective tissue integrity, and I very much thought relax meant collapse.  Here is this teacher explaining these things, perhaps you and/or your friend would be interested:

 

 

Honestly, good teachings on the internals of Tai Chi and qigong are very hard to find. 

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Thanks guys for your kind help.


@Khamasie

 

Yes, you are right, there is a lot of Tamas that is due to bad habits, bad diet, tv and other stuff. That’s the Tamas that’s relatively easy to correct, that is if people are reasonable😀, and if they are not limited by family or making a living. 

The advice that I often give is to live a quiet and simple life, but a lot of people are not able to do it, even if they understand the philosophy behind it, namely to calm the mind, increase Sattva guna, direct the energy towards the inner work.

 

However, there is another kind of Tamas, or Yin, that is the result of our individual type, someone is yin, someone yang, someone an introvert and someone an extravert. That is much harder to correct or balance because it is deeply rooted in all our systems, our posture, breathing pattern, type of emotions, brain plasticity, behavior patterns etc. 

 


@Creation

 

Thanks for sharing your experience, and thanks for the video too. 
 

Yes, it is hard to find teachers with knowledge and experience, they are quite rare, choosing a teacher is very important, it can save you a looot of time. But the mature student is also important. The old saying, “when the student is ready-the guru appears” is so very true.

 

It seems that I described you without knowing you when I said that qigong was perhaps not such a great tool for tamasic people. :)

It is very good that you had noticed that something inside had not been right, but it would be even better to know exactly what it was, and what was the reason. 

Perhaps you may try to elaborate to us what exactly did you mean by the inside of the body not moving right. This is a good place for learning to discern subtle sensations or energy.

 

Now, each asana has its own effect, and teachers should know how to individually tailor a practice for every student. However, most of the time that is not the case, especially if there are a lot of students. I don’t know if you are aware of it, but yoga was originally one on one, only one student at the time. That is the only correct way to do it, because a teacher can observe closely, ask a lot of questions, correct, individually adapt etc. 

So, what everyone has to learn are the specific effects of each pose, pranayama, type of meditation, behavior etc.  That knowledge would have allowed you not to stop your practice but to change it and adapt it.

 

For example, backbends are activating and forward bends are relaxing.

Or the chest-belly compensatory relationship, when the belly is tight, the chest is expanded and vice versa, because the internal organs move. We have to be aware of this principle while doing poses and meditation. In this qigong standing pose, if the belly is expanded too much, the chest will naturally go down, unless we consciously keep it up. It’s great that you learned about that difference between sinking and dropping, that’s a great example how important is to have either knowledge or a good teacher. 

 

Also, one good principle to follow is to carefully scan and compare the state of body/mind /energy before and after a pose, or the whole practice.

 

With regards to connective tissue, one fact is important to know, and that is that it stretches like a plastic bag, it takes a long time to stretch it. In yogasanas it means that some poses have to be held for longer periods of time, if we want to address an imbalance in posture or energy flow.

 

One more thing would be to carefully examine the position of your pelvis while standing normally, as it is often that the rest of the upper body is compensating for the imbalances in the pelvis. Do you know about the psoas muscle? There are a couple of books about it, and people in general have never heard about it.

 

Good luck with your practice!

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