Why is there so much evil in the world?

[Cobie]

 

17 hours ago, Nungali said:

… Men's and  Women's 'business'  ( special spiritual and initiatory teachings ) is separated here in indigenous  society

 

wonderful 

 

 

Edited June 8 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

15 hours ago, doc benway said:

… I'm curious about what it means to others to be in control of thought.

for me it has 3 stages: allow, observe, filter

 

 

Edited June 8 by Cobie

[BigSkyDiamond]

in recovery there is

Awareness

Acceptance

Action

 

it takes conscious deliberate attention to not skip over the "acceptance" step, and instead jump immediately into knee jerk reactions.  For me awareness is observing whatever it is that appears (thought or feeling for instance).  Accepting that it is there giving it space to just be what it is (without me spinning into drama judgment interpretation or knee jerk reaction.)  And then intentionally deciding and choosing whether to respond and how to respond.  

 

for me it was learning most of the time just to pause and rest at the acceptance step allowing it to be there.  And knowing that I don't have to engage with it .  If I am in a shop there are many things on the shelves i don't pick them all up. I don't have to engage with every thought or feeling whether that is judging it, fighting it, avoiding it, chasing it, trying to destroy it or running away from it.  So then choosing not to engage can be a considered response.  ability to respond (= responsibility) instead of knee jerk reacting.

 

 

This from the NIH National Library of Medicine:

"The Awareness/Acceptance/Action Model (AAAM) draws on principles of mindfulness, rooted in ancient Asian traditions, and recently adapted to a range of physical and mental health interventions in Western contexts. Mindfulness techniques encourage awareness of one's current state and environment, acceptance of the implications of one's attitudes and behaviors, and the development of intentional responses rather than habitually patterned reactions."

[Cobie]

 

14 hours ago, Nungali said:

… it was what I ( chose to )    believe   ... with emphasis on   belief .  He didn't get it .

If he asked me what I thought ... our what 'the truth of the matter was' ... he would have got entirely different answers.

People got  them things all mixed up . 

 

Exactly.  I too “chose to”. 

 

 

Edited June 8 by Cobie

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

wonderful 

 

 

 

"Hey Honey, I'm ducking out for a few hours, see you when I get back ."

 

" Where do you keep going every evening before dinner ?" 

 

" Sorry  -  men's business .  "  

[doc benway]

On 6/7/2025 at 8:00 PM, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

Yes. That means I have to take full 100% responsibility for all of my thought, speech, actions, feelings, emotions.

all of it. 

 

for me i can't think of it as "control."  but i am responsible for them.  a teacher of mine calls it "being master in your own house."

 

There is an elegant Bön pith teaching I’ll paraphrase as -

~ the lesser practitioner sees their conflicts and challenges as the responsibility of another

~ the average practitioner shares responsibility 

~ the advanced practitioner embraces full responsibility for every situation and decision

[BigSkyDiamond]

18 minutes ago, doc benway said:

 

There is an elegant Bön pith teaching I’ll paraphrase as -

~ the lesser practitioner sees their conflicts and challenges as the responsibility of another

~ the average practitioner shares responsibility 

~ the advanced practitioner embraces full responsibility for every situation and decision

 

DocB, i love love love this  ^

 

put bluntly in recovery:

"the common denominator in every problem, situation, challenge in my life....

....is me"

[old3bob]

On 6/7/2025 at 8:52 AM, doc benway said:

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with things as they are.

And there is nothing wrong with our reactivity, with wanting some things to be different.

Problems arise for us when we are unable to accept things as they are but are unable to change them. 

Certainly we are free and encouraged to do what we can to change things that need to be changed but at some point we must face challenges in our lives which cannot be remediated to our satisfaction.

 

In the "everything is perfect" approach (eg. dzogchen), the method is to face these things as they are without platitudes, without resistance, but directly, with honesty and openness; the word often used in the teachings is to face them nakedly. My teacher uses the language of "hosting" our challenges or, more precisely, hosting the sense of self who is struggling; host with a sense of openness, inner quiet, and genuine caring. In the beginning this is done under controlled circumstances, like the quiet room on the cushion. Eventually we can bring this more alive in our day to day on demand. If we can be with uncomfortable and challenging things in this way, we find they eventually become less loud, less invasive, and we begin to feel some space and freedom even in their presence. We are no longer over-identifying with that sense of self who is resisting and suffering. This is liberation, not escape. The challenges are still there but no longer command our attention and direct our actions in a dysfunctional way. This allows us far more flexibility which comes from a more grounded, clear, and creative place.

 

A good example that practitioners can relate to is to look at what happens when we meditate in the presence of sounds or noise. In the beginning the noise can be very distracting. Our attention is repeatedly drawn away from openness (or whatever object of meditation we may be working with) and towards the sound, leading to thoughts and feelings that interfere with our practice. If we persevere, we become more familiar and stable and we find that the noise becomes less of a disturbance. It is still there but no longer interferes with our openness, focus, and stability. Eventually, the noise can become like fuel that strengthens our meditation, transforming from obstacle to support.

 

This is a method of facing our problems directly and nakedly, giving them the time and space they need to express themselves fully in consciousness, and the time and space they need to liberate in the spaciousness of mind. This is the opposite of bypassing, in which problems are repressed, suppressed, or ignored in favor of focusing the attention on good feelings and words. Platitudes in this context are meaningless. Problems and challenges arise for us for many reasons and they need to be seen and heard, they need the time and space to express what needs to be expressed. Equally important is that they are put in proper perspective which is the role of meditation.

 

 

Adharmic is against the common good of dharma,  so no you can have your dangerous wishy washy .

Edited Monday at 10:56 AM by old3bob

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

Adharmic is against the common good of dharma,  so no you can have your dangerous wishy washy .

 

Thanks Bob, 

I love my dangerous wishy washy!

It reminds me of the Dharma of David...

 

 

[doc benway]

19 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

in recovery there is

Awareness

Acceptance

Action

 

it takes conscious deliberate attention to not skip over the "acceptance" step, and instead jump immediately into knee jerk reactions.  For me awareness is observing whatever it is that appears (thought or feeling for instance).  Accepting that it is there giving it space to just be what it is (without me spinning into drama judgment interpretation or knee jerk reaction.)  And then intentionally deciding and choosing whether to respond and how to respond.  

 

for me it was learning most of the time just to pause and rest at the acceptance step allowing it to be there.  And knowing that I don't have to engage with it .  If I am in a shop there are many things on the shelves i don't pick them all up. I don't have to engage with every thought or feeling whether that is judging it, fighting it, avoiding it, chasing it, trying to destroy it or running away from it.  So then choosing not to engage can be a considered response.  ability to respond (= responsibility) instead of knee jerk reacting.

 

 

This from the NIH National Library of Medicine:

"The Awareness/Acceptance/Action Model (AAAM) draws on principles of mindfulness, rooted in ancient Asian traditions, and recently adapted to a range of physical and mental health interventions in Western contexts. Mindfulness techniques encourage awareness of one's current state and environment, acceptance of the implications of one's attitudes and behaviors, and the development of intentional responses rather than habitually patterned reactions."

 

I spent about 5 years working with a therapist who specialized in Acceptance Commitment Therapy developed by Stephen Hayes. A variation of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

It is very similar to what you describe above. 

The first phase focuses on awareness and mindfulness. Then comes the work with acceptance as you describe. Once this foundation is there, a period of introspection begins in order to identify those core values which are most meaningful. Finally, the commitment is made to take action and make choices rooted in those core values, rather than in the transient and conditioned reactivity brought about by emotion, attachment, aversion, and so on.

It was a wonderful and valuable process for me and, among other benefits, led me to focus more seriously on spiritual development. 

 

Edited Monday at 12:40 PM by doc benway

[BigSkyDiamond]

5 hours ago, old3bob said:

Adharmic is against the common good of dharma,  so no you can have your dangerous wishy washy.

 

"Beyond the ideas of wrong doing and right doing, 

there is a field.

I'll meet you there."

      ----Rumi

[stirling]

5 hours ago, old3bob said:

Adharmic is against the common good of dharma,  so no you can have your dangerous wishy washy.

 

What would be "adharmic" if the fabric of reality is entirely Brahman?

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, stirling said:

 

What would be "adharmic" if the fabric of reality is entirely Brahman?

 

get real about mixed reality on earth, heaven is nice hell is much worse,

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

"Beyond the ideas of wrong doing and right doing, 

there is a field.

I'll meet you there."

      ----Rumi

 

adults and children are being killed/murdered, they don't need an abstract "field" they need clean water, food, shelter, and their humanity, which btw the Tibetan Lama and monks fled to India for.

Edited Monday at 05:52 PM by old3bob

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

"Beyond the ideas of wrong doing and right doing, 

there is a field.

I'll meet you there."

      ----Rumi

 

You guys go off and play with Rumi . 

 

meanwhile me and Old3bob be holding the line out in the street .... hopefully we can stop them before they get through the street and start capturing and exporting people in your 'peace field' . 

 

methinks  Doc  being  a bit philosophical  here, I am sure in the past he been on the front line  .... maybe even for the environment ? 

 

I coulda walked off to Rumi field , but I lay down under  a log truck instead .   That stopped it ! 

 

That bit of important old growth forest STILL there  ! Its protected now . 

 

" Bulldoze that car out the way , its blocking the log truck road ! " 

 

 

" Hang on officer !  That car has a person inside it , it has no floor, they dug a hole and put concrete in it , his legs are  chained and padlocked to concrete in the base  and his neck is cable tied through the car chassis . "

 

 

- here you go Bro' , have a cup of tea .  

 

WE didn't 'accept' .. we changed things !  

 

https://commonslibrary.org/blockades-that-changed-australia/

 

It was all good Doc, except for the 'change things without resistance'     ;  sometimes ya gotta ! 

 

 

[Nungali]

... what is the time now  ?  

Edited Monday at 11:57 PM by Nungali

[Sherman Krebbs]

what good is good without evil

[Nungali]

Same answer .  

 

If one  cant deal with things  one 'philosophizes'  ( as they say down here ) ; " It's all good . " 

 

and to answer your question ;   It's all good . 

[old3bob]

On 6/9/2025 at 9:01 AM, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

"Beyond the ideas of wrong doing and right doing, 

there is a field.

I'll meet you there."

      ----Rumi

 

nothing against the "Field" but lets not forget Maslow's hierarchy of needs that can't really be bypassed:

Edited Tuesday at 07:52 PM by old3bob

[BigSkyDiamond]

14 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

nothing against the "Field" but lets not forget Maslow's hierarchy of needs that can't really be bypassed:

 

i don't see how that is being bypassed.

Utilizing and practicing a path of religion or spirituality can be and is for much of humanity a powerful and  effective tool for addressing all levels of the model.  

 

Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs

In the 1940s, Abraham Maslow proposed a theory about motivation that, for the first time, linked human biological needs and human psychology. According to Maslow, humans strive to meet their needs in a predictable order or hierarchy as shown (in diagram).  People’s physical and safety needs must be met before they can focus on their higher-order needs. Next, people need their social and self-esteem needs met. They need to feel loved and accepted as part of a group. Then, they can focus on achievement and gaining the respect of those around them. Only after all those needs are fulfilled can they focus on self-actualization, or achieving their highest potential, through professional growth, education, or other enrichment.

source
https://www.nhi.fhwa.dot.gov/LearnersFirst/maslows-hierarchy-of-needs.htm

Edited Tuesday at 08:02 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[doc benway]

20 hours ago, Nungali said:

It was all good Doc, except for the 'change things without resistance'     ;  sometimes ya gotta ! 

 

 

Absolutely, do everything you can (and even what you think you can't) every time!

Sail to Gaza, lay down under a logging truck, sit at the top of a 300 foot redwood, post angry messages anonymously online, whatever you can manage.

I'm not talking about acceptance as being - abuse me and others, all is perfect, I won't resist.

Acceptance is facing facts directly in order to deal with them with clarity and precision... and when necessary.

Similar to wu wei - we act when we need to but that action comes from an intelligence that runs deeper than reactivity and conditioning.