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Encephalon

Vagus nerve injuries and abdominal breathing

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It would appear that some folks dealing with crippling body-mind issues have not yet discovered the healing power of chi kung and basic methodical, abdominal breathing.  TCM... thousands of years old... way ahead of the curve!

 

https://www.thecut.com/2019/05/i-now-suspect-the-vagus-nerve-is-the-key-to-well-being.html?fbclid=IwAR0glHLlN9a3tBxp6XbDwq5TyuvDDbpIqRlcNfiNAd-gJn6O-EYRTL6qovs

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On 9/19/2019 at 1:24 PM, Encephalon said:

It would appear that some folks dealing with crippling body-mind issues have not yet discovered the healing power of chi kung and basic methodical, abdominal breathing.  TCM... thousands of years old... way ahead of the curve!

 

https://www.thecut.com/2019/05/i-now-suspect-the-vagus-nerve-is-the-key-to-well-being.html?fbclid=IwAR0glHLlN9a3tBxp6XbDwq5TyuvDDbpIqRlcNfiNAd-gJn6O-EYRTL6qovs

 

Thank you for this :)

 

Unfortunately there's also a lot more to fixing the vagus nerve than abdominal breathing and mind body connection. In fact, i wouldn't even call it mind body connection. I would argue that the entire head has neurological connections that may represent the body in a parallel way. To go even deeper, you could argue that the body is actually the brain of the head. Not vice versa

 

The head is a computer finding identity, and unfortunately identifies by the things our body experiences.

 

So it can be as simple as abdominal breathing if you haven't had injuries, emotional/psychological trauma, etc etc. Or.. it can be as complex as  learning to reestablish neurological pathways between the head and body, learning to relax face, and breathe with all the parts of the body between neck and hip.

 

Something i recently realized was that my left side breathing was mostly affected by incorrect breathing due to the tension and constant utilization of the muscles under the jaw bone, face, and tongue.

 

There were a ton of things that i tried to fix in the body and face. With small incremental improvements. Through a ton of testing, it was the neurological fixing of the under jaw muscles, scalene, tongue, and diaphragm that made the difference.

 

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@welkin could you please speak more about the fixing process you went through and a before/after snapshot? Also the neuro pathways, face relaxing, body breathing resources would be much appreciated. Thanks

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10 hours ago, alchemystical said:

@welkin could you please speak more about the fixing process you went through and a before/after snapshot? Also the neuro pathways, face relaxing, body breathing resources would be much appreciated. Thanks

 

The entire process and details would be very complicated to explain due to me not having taken the traditional route to healing myself. Meaning not using qigong. And also didn't really have a consistent or real process. But as a result of just trying a bunch of things, and done correctly, i've been able to discover concepts and details behind processes.

 

the concept lies in that the face/head represents the body from neck to hip. The same applies with arms and hands, feet and legs.

For example eyes = nipples, top nose = middle front point of rib cage where diaphragm expands, ears = /upper arms, tempo/behind ears = side scalene connecting neck to shoulders/clavicle. etc.

 

i cant and won't say everything is fact because though many things remained true, some things i had to adjust. i learned a lot of it through intuition, feeling, experimenting, breaking etc. So i don't want people to hurt themselves.

 

Maybe one day, i'll be able to say do this or that, and things will just work automatically. But i doubt it. Based of everything i've experienced, One needs to be dynamic to find the details that can be lead to healing. That can mean qigong, yoga, stretching, meditating, specific types of breathing, exercising, weight lifting, etc. Every one of those things would uncover a small detail that would continue on benefiting me by using them in other movements. Which would then lead to fixing the next thing. And it was only through the accumulation of hundreds of details that i've now gotten to maybe 70% of the way of feeling good and without having to consciously think about everything. (70% sounds bad for the amount of work it took, but i was without exaggeration unbelievably messed up.)

 

some core concepts/pillars:

- whole body works as a whole during all movements, even resting. like a support system

- goal is to breathe with entire body, but not consciously

- abdominal breathing brings everything in to fix

- energy moves through polarities.

- make sure to breathe with both left and right sides body

- no negative thoughts while doing

 

general chronological process:
- can feel and move energy. (prob did contribute a lot to healing, but that can be learned through the process anyways. just wanted to make sure i dont say something works without all the details)

- worked with the body as a whole no real process of what to work on. But.. did focus on fixing the bottom from hip to feet first. It was important to not neglect any body parts. Focusing on one thing means, putting MORE focus on one thing while keeping awareness of the rest.

- to fix lower part, i would do a lot of sitting down leg stretching. You can find all the types fairly easily. What, is not as important as how.

- manually use hands to touch feet, and feel connection between foot and leg during stretch. I would touch different points corresponding to parts of the leg. Stretching, along with yogic technique of foot flexing, and moving feet in different ways to feel connection was what fixed the connections. (stretching on floor was just a tip, stretching in different positions will work. As i mentioned it's not what you do but how you do it. What you do is important, but secondary) I also needed to create foot arch, after living my whole life with flat feet.

- Since I was  fixing entire body, not just one part, there was a point where i had okay connection between upper body and lower body at the hips. (completely pulled my lower back deadlifting)

- i would begin focusing more on the body/head, arms/hand with the same process.

 

 

The process is pretty similar to every general process to heal the body and breathing. I just realized what you probably want/need is the technique.

If you have any questions, just leave them here. I'll post soon with the actual technique of how to fix each section. Since everything is the same technique because it's they use the same concepts.

 

 

Edited by welkin
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Thank you very much, that is most useful and a great guidance for me to look into myself.

 

Another tip I can share is that sublingual B12 (Jarrow Formulas Methyl B-12 2500 mcg in my experience) really helps if you any issues with the Vagus Nerve. Simple, cheap and effective.

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So if the body has corresponding brains, head/body hand/arms feet/legs.

 

Goal:

Reestablish neurological connection between body and 'brains'.

 

Ways to do it

- stretching

- yoga

- static holds

- working out

- manual non formal energy moving

- qigong

- laying flat body sensing

- meditation

 

General technique and what to feel for

Since we are trying to reestablish neurological connections, you're constantly trying to feel connection between points on foot and corresponding leg muscles for example. And this would be done through different ways mentioned above, which is important because you'll want to learn how to establish that neurological connection in multiple ways. Such as learning to hold and understand your weight against gravity in connection with the surface you stand on. Stretching the leg along with the foot as a unit. Performing a movement that requires contraction and retraction. Breathing in multiple positions and activating correct muscle groups to do it depending on the position.

 

To be more specific, for example in:
stretching - you're trying to feel missing connections from corresponding parts of the foot to the leg. so for example, if you tried to stretch the hamstring or calves, and there's a missing connection let's say between the top of toes and the ankle area, you might be over stretching the achilles heel, therefore not stretching the calve and domino effecting to other wrong connections. One position to do the stretching technique is to stretch the legs while sitting on the floor, and grab 1 foot with hands. With fingers feel specific points on foot and try to feel corresponding parts on leg. You would do this by flexing the foot and relaxing the leg while stretching, trying to establish that connection all through breathing. You can move your foot downwards and flex like gripping on to something or flexing toes and foot upwards. If you found the point, it would feel like the nerve moving down the leg and connecting to the point on the foot. What's interesting is it could be reversed. Based on the polarity of where the energy is more stuck on, your foot might be the thing that's too tight and your leg is overly stretched. in which case the method to do this is:
you would again stretch the foot and leg all together by grabbing the foot with hand. Including with the same activation of foot and relaxed leg. After this however, you would slowly begin activating the leg area that you believe is overly stretched, slowly release the corresponding foot point. This can be done through very slow and slight contraction of foot/toes down and up. To feel a stretch or contracted front area such as quads and shin muscles, you would push up against your hands and feel the top of your foot.

 

An important concept is the connection of front back, left right. While strething or contracting while working out, the entire front part of the body works in conjunction with the back side. (i mean quite obviously, but i feel like it's not as easily understood in root/feeling rather than in concept). So take importance in it, there's layers behind it. At first i thought it was that when the front contracts back relaxes completely. Though the journey started there and it was a breakthrough, in reality it is more about howw muchh one contracts and how much the other relaxes. In a sense similar to polarity between foot and leg.

 

Just to clarify, these are the methods that unless i'm forgetting something, will apply when you fix the entire body for stretching. That being said it's very important to be very careful with the head. I would say upper body excluding arms don't really need as much stretching. It's a lot more with activation, relaxation, breathing.

 

working out/strengthening - you're trying to establish a more optimal connection between the brains and body. Meaning, how to grab onto floor while for example squatting. Also how much to flex. For hands and arms, it would be about how hard you grip things and what parts of the hand are activated in connection to which part and how much of the arms are being used while doing the movement. For the upper body chest/back, in my own personal experience i had an overly active head/face. I'm having to learn how to keep them neutral but as correctly activated as possible. Even more importantly trying to breathe correctly to prevent pressure and energy being stored in the head.

 

an example of how to do this would be hoping that there is good connection. During a lateral shoulder raise with a dumbbell or clubs, you would start in a neutral position, and begin gripping it with a conscious connection of the arms. The fingers = from forearm to elbows, knuckles = elbow, outer hand area under pinky = outer arm including triceps, palms/inner area between finger and thumb =? might be biceps not sure yet. You would try to feel all that connecting, and then do the movement. All along trying to find the amount of flexion/activation of the hand in comparison to the arm, and simultaneously establishing a more optimized connection. Then we're talking about stability of the lower body, core, and head. Which will be learned. But in regards to head specifically, that's where we talk about the vagus nerve. Need to make sure there is a baseline of proper connection between head and body, which is mainly done through meditative breathing. If you have some foundation there, then breathing correctly during the workouts will strengthen and reinforce that pattern in multiples if done correctly, which is difficult.

 

 

fixing vagus nerve - the biggest thing was fixing a connection between muscles under the jaw and body. For months i'd tried a lot of things with face, back of the head even under jaw. But it's like nothing clicked. i kept having trouble with my diaphragm, abs, stomache, lungs. Through certain events such as discovering we have muscles under the jaw called the anterior and posterior belly, i got the idea of activating those muscles, deactivating the tongue completely, and activating my lower back and front belly, and diaphragmatic breathing (look at animation of how it works so you can imagine yourself doing it.  This mainly allowed the vagus nerve to come down my neck from my head, while releasing but at the same time learning to utilize muscles underjaw. Secondarily, one step closer to relearning to utilize front and lower back more optimally. This all happened after having worked on facial stiffness in different areas, so that's something to consider beforehand.

 

Of course there's more, but this is more than enough to start with. I'm starting on qigong again soon (something i should've never stopped, but nonetheless meant to happen), hoping to finally be able to see the benefits after creating a stronger foundation.

 

As for proof through progress pics. I did that for a year, and quit because it was too depressing for me. And so, instead of ever thinking i was better or good, i decided to accept that this would be a long journey and i will never know if i've made it out of hell until i do. It will be obvious. Since then I've been teased hundreds of times, even now. But i'll tell you, from the best i can objectively see i'm night and day better from old pics i have. I obsess on the mirror to monitor daily progress. I'm serious when i say i've been through my own hell the past 3 years. But it seems that everything happened for a reason.

 

 

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Thank you very much, that is most useful and a great guidance for me to look into myself.

 

Another tip I can share is that sublingual B12 (Jarrow Formulas Methyl B-12 2500 mcg in my experience) really helps if you any issues with the Vagus Nerve. Simple, cheap and effective.

 

If everything i've discovered is obvious to everyone, well at least i'm happy to have gotten to a level playing field from where i once started. i've been through physical hell, and finally being able to see the door makes me realize the human mind, spirit, and body is capable of almost anything. Makes one realize normal health alone is something to be grateful for. And if it helps people have aha moments even better.

 

I hope it can help you, this has allowed me to bring my unconscious learned methods into words that hopefully make more sense than they did before to me.

 

And thanks for that! I haven't taken that in months. seriously need to get back on supplements. Thanks for the reminder.

 

Edited by welkin
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16 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Another tip I can share is that sublingual B12 (Jarrow Formulas Methyl B-12 2500 mcg in my experience) really helps if you any issues with the Vagus Nerve. Simple, cheap and effective.

 

Yeah, +1. Cannot even count how many B12 supplements I've tried. That Jarrow Methyl B12 is second only to shelling for an IV drip. Have you tried the one with Folate by chance?

 

Sean

 

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7 hours ago, sean said:

 

Yeah, +1. Cannot even count how many B12 supplements I've tried. That Jarrow Methyl B12 is second only to shelling for an IV drip. Have you tried the one with Folate by chance?

 

Sean

 

 

I haven't, what difference would it make? Fully agree that the Jarrow one is the best in terms of quality, price and effectiveness.

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5 hours ago, alchemystical said:

I haven't, what difference would it make? Fully agree that the Jarrow one is the best in terms of quality, price and effectiveness.

 

Dunno really, was just gonna re-up tho and curious if it makes a difference. Same, Jarrow is great.

 

Sean

 

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On 10/16/2019 at 6:38 PM, sean said:

 

Yeah, +1. Cannot even count how many B12 supplements I've tried. That Jarrow Methyl B12 is second only to shelling for an IV drip. Have you tried the one with Folate by chance?

 

Sean

 

 

B12 can be injected in the butt -- OTC in some countries (e.g. Mexico and Canada), and doctors in Europe used to be big on that, don't know about now.  B6 and B12 injections prescribed for everything the doctor couldn't diagnose and the patient couldn't tolerate.  And for prevention too.  E.g. for teens who started developing nearsightedness.  Good old days. 

These days I eat liver though.  

 

On 10/17/2019 at 1:56 AM, alchemystical said:

 

I haven't, what difference would it make? 

 

Folate can make a huge difference for people with MTHFR gene issues, which are not that uncommon and can range from very mild to very debilitating.  I recall a thread about it sometime ago but wouldn't know how to find it.   (MTHFR is the abbreviation for methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase, but if you thought it stands for "motherf..r" you wouldn't be incorrect either.)    

 

 

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